To ivory, or not to ivory?

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So is this Mammoth Ivory handle on my Barlow going to be delicate? Just wondering if it's ok to use, or if I should trade it off for a micarta or wood handle. I want to use it, not just let it sit in a drawer. But at the same time, I don't want to mess it up.

I would say go ahead and use it, but use it with a little care..... don't drop it, don't soak it in water, put a little mineral oil on it from time to time. I wouldn't use it like a beater, but for regular everyday use, it should be fine.

If you're really hard on your knives then I'd go with micarta or delrin.
 
They were fun to make Jack. Old First stainless butter knives gave their old lives for the cause.:D They made scary sharp paring knives.

Best regards

Robin

Wow, from humble butter knives to first-rate paring knives! Those are absolutely stunning.
 
Are piano keys solid ivory, or is it just an ivory veneer on the business surface?

Hi MW. piano keys are always veneer and usually cut on a slight angle so the grain can be seen. Later cheaper pianos had french ivory celluloid key tops and maple dyed black instead of Ebony (which are solid).

Best regards

Robin
 
Hi MW. piano keys are always veneer and usually cut on a slight angle so the grain can be seen. Later cheaper pianos had french ivory celluloid key tops and maple dyed black instead of Ebony (which are solid).

Best regards

Robin

Thanks, Robin. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned piano keys and it made me wonder about their viability as handle materials. Not that there's so many junked pianos lying around anyway...
 
Wow, from humble butter knives to first-rate paring knives! Those are absolutely stunning.

Thanks Doc )) That old FIRTH stainless is something else on the sharp scale, so thin and flat and takes an edge so fine. You have to learn to NOT use your thumb as a stop when paring:D

Bestregads

Robin
 
Thanks, Robin. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned piano keys and it made me wonder about their viability as handle materials. Not that there's so many junked pianos lying around anyway...

I have a small Rodgers pen knife that could use new scales but i'll have to use two layers to get the thickness. The nice thing about piano keys as the pattern they have from cutting them on an angle.

Best regards

Robin
 
I can take or leave ivory in general and I'm not a fan at all of the leg knives, but the combination of the two makes for a stunningly beautiful piece. Kudos on that one. :thumbup:

Thanks Cory, and MTURBO!

I thought the ivory suited this particular pattern very well myself. I'm not a huge fan of it either, but wanted at least 1 GEC in it before they stopped using ivory.

BTW, I'm pretty sure there's still a couple of these available through 1 or 2 dealers and the price doesn't break the bank.
 
BTW, I'm pretty sure there's still a couple of these available through 1 or 2 dealers and the price doesn't break the bank.

:thumbup: The first thing I did after seeing your picture was head off to a couple dealer sites and I found a couple still waiting to be purchased. I'm hoping I can work it into next month's budget. ;)
 
Without getting into the ethical side, I'd rather have any of the synthetic ivory-like micarta products anyway. More durable and stable. White paper micarta is one of my favorites.

DSCN0867_zpsvozdiqcg.jpg

WOW!!! I love that bottom knife it's absolutely beautiful:thumbup:
 
Jim Dunlop did a heck of a job on my ivory gent's knife with a warncliffe. It's in my pocket now, in a sheath. 15 degrees a side, and it's a razor. Light duty only. Next he's making a clip gents for me with mammoth. Ivory is gorgeous material, whether from a mammoth or an elephink! This picture is an injustice to the ivory on the knife.

 
I love ivory and mammoth as long as they were acquired legally. Here's my 25.

ivory.jpg
 
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I'd very happily own a knife in ivory, but I probably wouldn't carry it often because I'd be too upset if I dropped and cracked it. I've also heard that ivory is prone to absorbing things easily. My luck, the lovely color would end up stained somehow. In short, I appreciate the material, have no ethical objections whatsoever to owning it, but I think that it probably does not make for a very practical knife unless it is exclusively a dress knife.
 
I see both sides. This post may get me some people upset at me, but…with a thread entitled, “to ivory or not to ivory,” I guess this is the place to speak.

I love ivory covered knives. And…I often think I should not have them. I think that after micarta, it’s one of the most functional cover materials. Softer than bone, harder than wood, beautiful…what’s not to like? Okay, on to the politics. On the one hand, I think it’s too simplistic to say, “well, this elephant was killed 50 years ago, before the ban, so no harm, no foul.” The issue here is not that ivory of any kind (or date) is inherently evil (some think it should be socially engineered as such…and maybe for good reason…I’ll get there). The issue is one of a global ivory market. Demand for ivory harvested 50 years ago is not really distinct from demand for ivory in general . People just want ivory. Economist would argue (and do!) that when we buy ivory—even pre-ban, ethically harvested ivory—we are increasing the overall global demand for this material. And an increased global demand for ivory will result in the death of more elephants this very day. I know…it sound dramatic. But it sort of is dramatic. Some experts estimate that up to 100 African elephants are killed each day. Supposedly less than 500,000 African Elephants currently exist (as opposed to approximately 4 million in the early 1900s).

But I can see the other side, too. For example, my parents have an ivory carving that has been in the family for generations. Personally, I think it’s really ugly, but it’s basically half an elephant tusk (!). I always joke (except I’m not joking) that when my parents pass, I’ll take the carving and use it for knife handles. So if I do that (okay….WHEN I do that), how does that kill an elephant? Does me repurposing the carving as a hobby kill any more elephants than leaving the same carving “as is” on the dining room table? Of course is does not. That’s just silly.

Also, there is a certain (responsible and respectful) way of thinking where using ivory is a moral imperative. If an animal dies, no part should go to waste.

But from the aforementioned economists’ view, the demand, trading, buying and repurposing of ivory increases its “value” on the global market. We can isolate ourselves (as I did with the anecdote about my parents’ carving), but it’s difficult to argue that the global market idea is false. So what to do? This is where people want to create a culture wherein ivory IS inherently evil. It may very well be true that the only way to save the elephants is to make the very possession of elephant ivory a despicable thing, a shameful practice. Furthermore, that way of thinking must also acknowledge that it would be quite a mental feat to value warthog ivory, for example, and not elephant ivory.

This is where mammoth enters. When people say that buying mammoth ivory should be illegal, they are positing that if mammoth ivory is valued, it is virtually impossible NOT to value other ivory (read: elephant ivory) as a byproduct. They are almost certainly correct. And yet…even though I think we can see the point, it’s simply ridiculous to ban the possession of a fossil. (Perhaps there is a third way…we should all think about this) But the point is that this notion of an interconnected value between different kinds (and dates) of ivory is the motivation behind desires to ban mammoth—an agenda to make ivory of all kinds a material that no one should actually “want” to own.

Interestingly, the practice of burning confiscated ivory baffles me. On the one hand, it sends a clear message: poached materials will be destroyed, so why risk it? Well, they risk it for money, I guess. The demand is strong enough that criminals risk it to make money. But would not burning confiscated ivory just increase demand by reducing the global supply? So it’s a paradoxical practice. It’s in interesting to consider how governments burning confiscated ivory might actually be “killing elephants” by reducing supply and thus increasing demand. (I can’t buy a knife because that will increase demand, but they can “consume” thousands of pounds of the stuff???) But I think their intention is to create a public spectacle by which ivory, as material, is infused with social meaning—shame. I think burning confiscated ivory is a discursive practice. There are those who believe that the only way to save elephants is to “make” ivory into something that is shameful to possess. I am not sure how I feel about that, but I think understanding that it is a conscious attempt to change the discourse surrounding ivory is extremely important.

I’m really not trying to argue one way or another about “to ivory or not to ivory.” I’m conflicted about the issue. What I AM saying is that as knife people (or as gun people or musical instrument people), I don’t think it’s acceptable to just say, “well, it’s pre-ban, ethically harvested” or “well, it’s been extinct for thousands of years.” It may very well be that there are good arguments for the continued use of ivory in knives, but we need to think deeply and make those arguments. And we need to do it in dialogue with these more complicated issues of global markets and the interconnected value of various types of ivory. Otherwise, our arguments aren’t really arguments.

(my longest post EVER. Sorry)
 
As long as the discussion is centered on whether ivory makes a nice knife handle, and what kinds of knives look good with such handles, the thread will be OK.

Discussions of the correctness or ethics of using ivory will get the thread shut down.


If you'd read knarfeng's previous post you'd have left the politics and morality out of this thread. It's a knife forum, not a political forum. If we have to say it again, the thread gets closed.
 
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Mods, this is the OP's lead post "I get the whole "don't kill the elephants" thing. I do. But my understanding is that a lot of the ivory scales/covers/handles on most newer knives come from repurposed ivory, from old pianos and such. I think ivory is beautiful, although it's not exactly a "working" handle material, like G10, micarta, or even wood. Anyways, I had just gotten ahold of a nice ivory handled knife, and this liberal fellow I know about flipped hos wig over it. Was wondering what the opinions of the real "knife guys" was. Picked up an Ivory Madison Barlow. Very new to traditiinals, but just love this knife. Might be too nice to use, but just....damn it's beautiful."

Why exactly are we not allowed to answer his post as it relates to ethical issues? That IS part of his question, and it's a real consideration for someone buying a knife with ivory covers. If you have a problem with that, why have you let the thread run at all?

So far, I don't see anyone coming in to the thread and condemning anything, crusading for or against anything, or otherwise acting fanatical, which is what I think your intent is to avoid. What I see is a reasonable discussion with thoughtful contributions that address the OP's question.
 
I am going to post a photo of s absolutely gorgeous Ivory knife by John Lloyd.
Beautiful Grain - a massive " Banana " knife like the old Remington.
I also picked up a very old Ivory Sheffield I will try to get good shots of this weekend as well.
 
Jim Dunlop did a heck of a job on my ivory gent's knife with a warncliffe. It's in my pocket now, in a sheath. 15 degrees a side, and it's a razor. Light duty only. Next he's making a clip gents for me with mammoth. Ivory is gorgeous material, whether from a mammoth or an elephink! This picture is an injustice to the ivory on the knife.


That is a fine looking knife. I can't wait to get my first gent's from Mr. Dunlap in hand. That won't be in ivory though, so to stay with the topic here is my current favorite knife with ivory handles:

 
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