Too much worry about steel types?

C

Claus0BF

Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
43
Hi Bladeforums!

I am a member to this great Forums since quite a while, reading a lot but not posting anything as up to now. But now - I feel like doing so [emoji4]

What goes through my mind quite often when reading about different steel types and their benefits and draw backs is as follows:

I have an accumulation of about 70 folding and fixed blade knives. I do not use every one of them, because there are some blades in this stack I simply don't have any use for. But most of them get used at least from time to time.

I do freehand sharpening and edge reprofiling and have a small collection of nice natural, ceramic and diamond stones, as well as two double sided leather strops with different compounds applied to them.

My blades are made of a lot of different steel types - ranging from simple C75 (1075) carbon steel, over tool steels like O1, A2 and D2, and stainless steels like VG10 and 440C to "super" steels varying from CPM-M4 to Elmax.

And my experience is, that I can get every one of them VERY sharp. Every single blade I am able to get hair whittling sharp. Every one could easily slice through the thinnest rolling papers available. Even those carbide monsters like D2.
Yes some of them I could get just a little bit sharper than others - especially the low alloy carbon steel ones.
But that is just by a very small amount.
And yes, some of them may loose this (to me) very high level of sharpness a tiny bit faster than others. But that doesn't matter to me, since I like stropping my blades.
And yes, those small differences are by no means only due to the selected steel types. Heat treatment and blade/edge geometry play a big role there as well. As do my sharpening skills.

In this regard it sure is of meaning to know, how I use my knives. Well, I live in a big city. I use my knives mainly for food prep, opening packages, cutting cardboard and all those little chores a city boy encounters in his day to day life. So it's not heavy use... but more or less daily use.

What I'd like to say with all that: in every day life, regarding pocket knives most people will be very well served by any decent blade steel from any reputable manufacturer (I'm not talking those "jarbenzas"). So "beginners" should consider the following: don't worry to much about the steel type. There is much more important things to a good knife, such as blade geometry, ergonomics and (in my opinion) even looks. Get a knife you like, learn to sharpen and use it. Then you will find out, what is important in a knife for you. All this debating about steel types sure can be fun, but it is for the biggest part only theory and does not make a large difference in practice in most circumstances a knife is used.

This is just my experiences and opinion. Feel free to disagree! [emoji4]

Thanks for reading,
Claus0
 
It depends heavily on what you do with your knives. For many your advice is solid, but if someone lives on a saltwater coast steel type becomes significantly more important. Same if they do lots of abrasive cutting. We here tend to be more obsessed with steel because we like it, as a broad range of steels are often more than capable of taking care of whatever needs we have, but the fact remains that steel is like any other component of a tool. Pick the right one for the job.
 
I think you are absolutely right with what you're saying.

And this:

Insipid Moniker said:
...
We here tend to be more obsessed with steel because we like it, as a broad range of steels are often more than capable of taking care of whatever needs we have ...
Click to expand...

is just, what I was trying to say.
 
Claus, I agree with you 100%

Unless you have some sort of specialized job that involves cutting cardboard or hemp all day, most people would notice a difference in blade steel. Since about 80% of people now live in an urban environment, there's actually not much need for a knife at all in the gal world life. Any little piece of sharp steel will do for the office worker/city dweller. Look at the millions of people that are the majority these days that do not even carry a knife at all. They just rip open boxes with a key. When the unwashed masses actually do use a knife, they get by very well with the disc out store 5.99 kitchen kife made from mystery Chinese steel stamped out by the millions, and sold in grocery stores world wide in the utensil isle.

It's only us obsessed knife nuts that agonize over what steel to get.
 
Claus0BF said:
Hi Bladeforums!

I am a member to this great Forums since quite a while, reading a lot but not posting anything as up to now. But now - I feel like doing so [emoji4]

What goes through my mind quite often when reading about different steel types and their benefits and draw backs is as follows:

I have an accumulation of about 70 folding and fixed blade knives. I do not use every one of them, because there are some blades in this stack I simply don't have any use for. But most of them get used at least from time to time.

I do freehand sharpening and edge reprofiling and have a small collection of nice natural, ceramic and diamond stones, as well as two double sided leather strops with different compounds applied to them.

My blades are made of a lot of different steel types - ranging from simple C75 (1075) carbon steel, over tool steels like O1, A2 and D2, and stainless steels like VG10 and 440C to "super" steels varying from CPM-M4 to Elmax.

And my experience is, that I can get every one of them VERY sharp. Every single blade I am able to get hair whittling sharp. Every one could easily slice through the thinnest rolling papers available. Even those carbide monsters like D2.
Yes some of them I could get just a little bit sharper than others - especially the low alloy carbon steel ones.
But that is just by a very small amount.
And yes, some of them may loose this (to me) very high level of sharpness a tiny bit faster than others. But that doesn't matter to me, since I like stropping my blades.
And yes, those small differences are by no means only due to the selected steel types. Heat treatment and blade/edge geometry play a big role there as well. As do my sharpening skills.

In this regard it sure is of meaning to know, how I use my knives. Well, I live in a big city. I use my knives mainly for food prep, opening packages, cutting cardboard and all those little chores a city boy encounters in his day to day life. So it's not heavy use... but more or less daily use.

What I'd like to say with all that: in every day life, regarding pocket knives most people will be very well served by any decent blade steel from any reputable manufacturer (I'm not talking those "jarbenzas"). So "beginners" should consider the following: don't worry to much about the steel type. There is much more important things to a good knife, such as blade geometry, ergonomics and (in my opinion) even looks. Get a knife you like, learn to sharpen and use it. Then you will find out, what is important in a knife for you. All this debating about steel types sure can be fun, but it is for the biggest part only theory and does not make a large difference in practice in most circumstances a knife is used.

This is just my experiences and opinion. Feel free to disagree! [emoji4]

Thanks for reading,
Claus0
Click to expand...

jackknife said:
Claus, I agree with you 100%

Unless you have some sort of specialized job that involves cutting cardboard or hemp all day, most people would notice a difference in blade steel. Since about 80% of people now live in an urban environment, there's actually not much need for a knife at all in the gal world life. Any little piece of sharp steel will do for the office worker/city dweller. Look at the millions of people that are the majority these days that do not even carry a knife at all. They just rip open boxes with a key. When the unwashed masses actually do use a knife, they get by very well with the disc out store 5.99 kitchen kife made from mystery Chinese steel stamped out by the millions, and sold in grocery stores world wide in the utensil isle.

It's only us obsessed knife nuts that agonize over what steel to get.
Click to expand...



This is spot on. I have used everything from "who knows what Chinese steel" to S7. They all get sharp and cut stuff. I live on the coast in the northeast and have never had issues with rusting, it's just a matter of proper blade maintenance.
 
I'm glad you're served by anything you come across. Must be nice to pick any steel and it works the same. I do not have that luxury.

Just yesterday I went from cutting boxes and tape to stabbing and chopping whole tilapia that were frozen as hard as a rock. When I was chopping one I tried just a little too hard and skipped right off the fish bouncing the edge right off the concrete floor. When I say I was trying too hard that means I was swinging down as hard as I could with far too little control. The knife I used needed to be able to do all that plus be stain resistant enough to hang out all day with quickly thawing fish meat all over it, that is, unless I wanted to wipe fish parts off on my clothes which wasn't going to happen.

There are very few steels that can handle what was required of that knife yesterday. Impact toughness, lateral toughness and strength, abrasion resistance, and hardness all needed to be tested in just one day's worth of work. My coworkers thought I was crazy until they saw what I was doing and what the knife stood up to. It sure as hell beat what they were doing to open the fish up by trying to throw them as hard as they could against the wall, stomping on them, and hitting them with a hammer. That's stupid. That's what people resort to when they don't have the proper tools. There is literally nothing that could do all of what I did yesterday in one package. Some tools may have performed better but it would only perform in one aspect better than the knife I was using. The knife I used could do everything I needed from a tool yesterday. And no, most steels couldn't have performed nearly as well, relatively speaking. Hell, even I was impressed after what I put that knife through yesterday and how well it performed.

So yes, steels matter. Maybe not to everyone, but for those who need the right tool need the right steel. For me that's a high toughness, high hardness steel with good to great abrasion resistance. The epitome of what tool steels are supposed to be in a knife.

I can say that a specific company just got a few new customers yesterday if they can get over the fact a good knife will probably cost over $100.
 
bodog said:
I'm glad you're served by anything you come across. Must be nice to pick any steel and it works the same. I do not have that luxury.

Just yesterday I went from cutting boxes and tape to stabbing and chopping whole tilapia that were frozen as hard as a rock. When I was chopping one I tried just a little too hard and skipped right off the fish bouncing the edge right off the concrete floor. When I say I was trying too hard that means I was swinging down as hard as I could with far too little control. The knife I used needed to be able to do all that plus be stain resistant enough to hang out all day with quickly thawing fish meat all over it, that is, unless I wanted to wipe fish parts off on my clothes which wasn't going to happen.

There are very few steels that can handle what was required of that knife yesterday. Impact toughness, lateral toughness and strength, abrasion resistance, and hardness all needed to be tested in just one day's worth of work. My coworkers thought I was crazy until they saw what I was doing and what the knife stood up to. It sure as hell beat what they were doing to open the fish up by trying to throw them as hard as they could against the wall, stomping on them, and hitting them with a hammer. That's stupid. That's what people resort to when they don't have the proper tools. There is literally nothing that could do all of what I did yesterday in one package. Some tools may have performed better but it would only perform in one aspect better than the knife I was using. The knife I used could do everything I needed from a tool yesterday. And no, most steels couldn't have performed nearly as well, relatively speaking. Hell, even I was impressed after what I put that knife through yesterday and how well it performed.

So yes, steels matter. Maybe not to everyone, but for those who need the right tool need the right steel. For me that's a high toughness, high hardness steel with good to great abrasion resistance. The epitome of what tool steels are supposed to be in a knife.

I can say that a specific company just got a few new customers yesterday if they can get over the fact a good knife will probably cost over $100.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

"I need to cut a frozen tilapia, so the perfect balance of blah, blah, blah is the only thing that suits my needs"

Come on... I do all that stuff with my frickin' mystery steel Chinese kitchen knives.
 
Lots of us are in this hobby for different reasons and there is almost no wrong way to do it.

I personally have varying needs that different steel do better at than others. I also love knives and think owning only one or two steels wouldn't be any fun just like owning only one or two knives. Talk about boring!
 
Blues Bender said:
:rolleyes:

"I need to cut a frozen tilapia, so the perfect balance of blah, blah, blah is the only thing that suits my needs"

Come on... I do all that stuff with my frickin' mystery steel Chinese kitchen knives.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah, come work with me for a day. It wasn't cutting the frozen fish that impressed me, it was skipping the knife off the concrete, cutting many boxes, etc. I've done far more than that with the knife, I didn't feel like writing any more than I did there. Feel free to send me a knife with a cheap chinese steel and I'll report what I do with it and how it performed.
 
bodog said:
... Must be nice to pick any steel and it works the same. ...
Click to expand...
Yes, it in deed is! [emoji4]

bodog said:
... Just yesterday I went from cutting boxes and tape to stabbing and chopping whole tilapia that were frozen as hard as a rock. When I was chopping one I tried just a little too hard and skipped right off the fish bouncing the edge right off the concrete floor. When I say I was trying too hard that means I was swinging down as hard as I could with far too little control. The knife I used needed to be able to do all that plus be stain resistant enough to hang out all day with quickly thawing fish meat all over it, that is, unless I wanted to wipe fish parts off on my clothes which wasn't going to happen. ...
Click to expand...
Well, that's kind of a special task for a knife, in my opinion. And as I said before: special tool for special tasks.
 
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There is a degree to which I can agree with the OP's sentiment. You can get about any steel to fill the needs of the average, every-day city dweller or suburbanite quite easily. However, being your average suburbanite it sure is nice to have a steel that will hold an edge. I do enjoy sharpening, but I've found when life throws a job at you, time for it diminishes, add a wife and child and... I have more pressing things to do with my time. As a result, my love for 1095 has diminished greatly. Certainly a usable steel (I still do use it) but it takes an edge about as quickly as it looses one and that's quickly. And while I don't live on the salt coasts, I did just wind up with a week solid of soaking rain that I had to spend substantial time in. I was thankful I had a steel which handled that without rotting away as some steels would have (1095).

For me, a good steel makes a difference.

That said to really appreciate a steel, I think you need to use it. 1095, D2, AUS8, ZDP-189, S30V, etc... try them out as you are able. Live with them for a while. My brother got me a Delica 4 in ZDP last Christmas. I've been tickled pink by its edge retention and stain resistance. And yes, even though any steel can handle my meager every-day tasks, this steel saves me from squandering time tending to my knife, and allows me to dote on my wife and daughter. Now that's a steel I like. =)
 
4d9ddc524fe8425413e7ad53b08f69ad.jpg


Whittling aluminum... don't try that with budget steel. Totally stupid to do. And not realistic I agree. But steel type does make a difference sometimes.

Also note the chip. Other steels can be driven through steel with no damage. Again unrealistic. But for tough tasks...
 
Getting the right general class of steel is what's most important. Specific steel has an impact, but it's minimal compared to using a steel that just in the right ballpark for the design/application. Generally it's really more the designer's job to figure that stuff out, so the consumer ideally shouldn't have to worry about the steel much if the range of intended function is adequately described so they can appropriately match tool to task.
 
I never said that steel choice does not make any difference at all.

What I said is that steel is not that important for MOST realistic every day uses of MOST people.

And regarding it being nice to have choices: sure it is! But for me and for more people than some believe, things like cuting ability (gteometry) and ergonmics should be more important than steel choice.

Don't get me wrong: I also do fancy about steel types. But for me it's just because of the fun of it.
Yeah, I'm a luxury spoiled guy. :)
 
I
SBaker34 said:
4d9ddc524fe8425413e7ad53b08f69ad.jpg


Whittling aluminum... don't try that with budget steel. Totally stupid to do. And not realistic I agree. But steel type does make a difference sometimes.

Also note the chip. Other steels can be driven through steel with no damage. Again unrealistic. But for tough tasks...
Click to expand...

Yikes that's a big chip. Is that steel s30v? Not to shabby considering how thin spydercos are.
 
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