Too much worry about steel types?

[The Aflac Duck]

Blah blah blah, come work with me for a day. It wasn't cutting the frozen fish that impressed me, it was skipping the knife off the concrete, cutting many boxes, etc. I've done far more than that with the knife, I didn't feel like writing any more than I did there. Feel free to send me a knife with a cheap chinese steel and I'll report what I do with it and how it performed.

Lol! Come work with me for a day! Give me your best, hardest, toughest steel and I'll show you how my job will turn that beautiful 18dps .0009 micron stroped edge to rubble in a few minutes:yawn:

Ever cut carpet with $1,000 worth of knives? I'll tell you what... S35VN performs no better than N690 at that task. Geometry matters a lot more.

Here's a video in case you think I'm just blowing smoke...

[video]http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Discomonkey28/media/8A29952B-759A-4224-8F05-A52EFD256DEF_zps7fyahikj.mp4.html[/video]

 

[jackknife]

I'm glad you're served by anything you come across. Must be nice to pick any steel and it works the same. I do not have that luxury.

Just yesterday I went from cutting boxes and tape to stabbing and chopping whole tilapia that were frozen as hard as a rock. When I was chopping one I tried just a little too hard and skipped right off the fish bouncing the edge right off the concrete floor. When I say I was trying too hard that means I was swinging down as hard as I could with far too little control. The knife I used needed to be able to do all that plus be stain resistant enough to hang out all day with quickly thawing fish meat all over it, that is, unless I wanted to wipe fish parts off on my clothes which wasn't going to happen.

There are very few steels that can handle what was required of that knife yesterday. Impact toughness, lateral toughness and strength, abrasion resistance, and hardness all needed to be tested in just one day's worth of work. My coworkers thought I was crazy until they saw what I was doing and what the knife stood up to. It sure as hell beat what they were doing to open the fish up by trying to throw them as hard as they could against the wall, stomping on them, and hitting them with a hammer. That's stupid. That's what people resort to when they don't have the proper tools. There is literally nothing that could do all of what I did yesterday in one package. Some tools may have performed better but it would only perform in one aspect better than the knife I was using. The knife I used could do everything I needed from a tool yesterday. And no, most steels couldn't have performed nearly as well, relatively speaking. Hell, even I was impressed after what I put that knife through yesterday and how well it performed.

So yes, steels matter. Maybe not to everyone, but for those who need the right tool need the right steel. For me that's a high toughness, high hardness steel with good to great abrasion resistance. The epitome of what tool steels are supposed to be in a knife.

I can say that a specific company just got a few new customers yesterday if they can get over the fact a good knife will probably cost over $100.

Yet another case of depending on a tool in place of thinking. Next time try running some cold water over the fish, and they thaw right out enough to separate them. Software over hardware. And for cutting frozen meat, I've yet to see any butcher or real certified meat cutter use anything but a saw. Power or otherwise. Again, only a knife nut will try to use his knife no matter how much better a real tool for the job would be.

 

[SBaker34]

I

Yikes that's a big chip. Is that steel s30v? Not to shabby considering how thin spydercos are.

S110v, I was whittling on that piece of aluminum to see when it lost shaving sharpness. And decided to baton though, torqued the knife and took a chip out. I do dumb things

 

[mael333ca]

we truly do get over hyped about steels, but is nice that they are pushing the technology further and the fact that we get to have a certain access to it.

 

[Claus0BF]

Again, only a knife nut will try to use his knife no matter how much better a real tool for the job would be.

Yes!
(but also only a NON knife nut will use any other tool no matter how much a knife would be the proper tool [emoji6] ).

 

[jc57]

I am a knife hobbyist for fun, but not a serious knife user for anything. I would be in the category that the OP is referring to, that any old steel will work fine for what I do.

For the men and women who use a knife regularly in their jobs or recreational pursuits, I am sure that the choice of steel and blade geometry can be quite important.

I am actually well served by Victorinox stainless, or the 440A in Rough Riders, or AUS-8 in a Boker Plus, or Case's CV and Tru-Sharp 420HC. Since I kind of enjoy the occasional blade maintenance, ease of restoring a sharp edge is more useful to me than the ability of a blade to hold an edge for long periods between sharpenings.

So sure, I have a few knives in D2, 154CM, VG-10, and Elmax. It wasn't so much because I really HAD to try out that steel, but more that I wanted a particular knife and that's the steel that was used by the manufacturer. I honestly don't recall having dulled a knife from usage to the point where I needed much more than simple stropping to restore the edge.

If you want to look at me funny for being into knife collecting without being much of a knife user, then consider it the same as a model railroader who never actually rides around in very small trains.

 

[bodog]

Yet another case of depending on a tool in place of thinking. Next time try running some cold water over the fish, and they thaw right out enough to separate them. Software over hardware. And for cutting frozen meat, I've yet to see any butcher or real certified meat cutter use anything but a saw. Power or otherwise. Again, only a knife nut will try to use his knife no matter how much better a real tool for the job would be.

No, it's called getting the job done. If you think any of us had time to thaw each fish before cutting it open and moving on with what we needed to do, then I guess I needed to explain more. I'm not a chef and don't work in the kitchen and work where I don't always have the best tool available. To always have the best tool available for what I do I'd need to carry a shipping container full of tools around with me everywhere. Sometimes you simply have to make do with what you have.

My fixed blade knife, my leatherman, and the end cap of my baton are by far my most used tools and that's because that's all I can honestly carry anywhere I go. Well, those, a pair of bolt cutters, and a backpack with a drill including sockets and drill bits. My job is looking into stuff. Literally opening things. Literally almost anything you can think of. Try looking inside a 10 ft x 10 ft x 2 in piece of granite that someone drilled multiple holes in and then plugged with other pieces of granite. Then 10 minutes later you're trying to open 20 cans of corned beef. Then 10 minutes later you're cutting open 30 boxes of socks. Then 10 minutes later you're looking at basketball sized chunks of frozen fish juice with like halibut eggs or some shit mixed in the frozen juice. Then 10 minutes later you're having to pry open crates with ceramic tiles inside and they're packed so tightly you have to pry the tiles up to look under them. Then chopping and prying open big packing crates with exercise bikes in them, each in their own boxes. Then 20 minutes later you're opening boxes of frozen fish. Then 30 minutes later you're cutting open burlap sacks of powdered guano. Then you're opening up cans of tuna. Then you're opening boxes of wine. It goes on and on and on.

Literally, all day. Several days a week. I have to lug what tools I carry up a narrow ladder and get the job done. Then get down and go walk around gigantic parking lots with any number of things to open. Climbing on top of lashings, crawling inside things 10 to 15 feet off the ground without a ladder, and using what I have with me to crack shit open. Camelbak full of water, backpack with a drill and bits, whatever I can hang from my belt including the tools I'm mandated to wear just in someone gets froggy, and a pair of boltcutters big enough to pop any bolts under half an inch. And still keep one hand free. I'd love to hear how I should've known to carry a saw that one day for that one shipment and not a prybar, or a sledgehammer, or an axe, or an AED just in case someone has a heart attack, seriously.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

To always have the best tool available for what I do I'd need to carry a shipping container full of tools around with me everywhere. Sometimes you simply have to make do with what you have.

 

[HwangJino]

I'm sort of on the same boat, i could almost careless what steel the knife is. I have a $5-10 gift knife (bought for practice sharpening) and it's china steel and still works for all my cutting needs. Sure it might not hold an edge as long, but not a big deal to a knife hobbyist.

 

[PlaneMaker]

What I'd like to say with all that: in every day life, regarding pocket knives most people will be very well served by any decent blade steel from any reputable manufacturer (I'm not talking those "jarbenzas"). So "beginners" should consider the following: don't worry to much about the steel type. There is much more important things to a good knife, such as blade geometry, ergonomics and (in my opinion) even looks. Get a knife you like, learn to sharpen and use it. Then you will find out, what is important in a knife for you. All this debating about steel types sure can be fun, but it is for the biggest part only theory and does not make a large difference in practice in most circumstances a knife is used.

Absolutely. I got into an argument on another forum where someone was saying Japanese steel got more sharp than any other steel in the world. I tried explaining how sharpness is based on the angle of the edge, not steel quality. Any average or above steel can be as sharp as the next. But quality of the steel determines how long that edge lasts.

 

[bodog]

I'd love to be strong enough to strap a toolbox that big on my back and walk around all day.

 

[Claus0BF]

...
But quality of the steel determines how long that edge lasts.

True, but so does heat treatment and edge geometry.

 

[Constant Gardener]

So.... I'm using a wooden knife. I sharpen it, it slices paper. Who need a steel knife?? Ummm I do. Anybody who says they do not need a high quality steel knife des not hard use their knife. And that's fine. You like soft steel that's fine. To each his own. But lets not go on and on how quality steel is over rated.

 

[Claus0BF]

So.... I'm using a wooden knife. I sharpen it, it slices paper. Who need a steel knife?? Ummm I do. Anybody who says they do not need a high quality steel knife des not hard use their knife. And that's fine. You like soft steel that's fine. To each his own. But lets not go on and on how quality steel is over rated.

I did not say, nobody needs high quality steel on their knives. In my opinion high quality steel is important. But high quality does not mean only specific kind of steels. There are a lot of high quality steels out there - ranging from super simple low alloy carbon steels to super fancy powder steels with high alloy content.

Get a knife with decent steel from a reputable maker, and in MOST cases you shouldn't have any problems in day to day usage! (unless you you have to hack through frozen fish on concrete...)

 

[kaizo]

I have noticed a difference with the likes of 440C, inox and infi in terms of edge retention and general toughness where infi was the best which is why I continue to buy from Busse. I think what's important here is that you get the knife made by people who heat treats the blade well. I think its essentially like giving two artists the same brush and telling them to paint. The better skilled one will come back with a better painting. In a nutshell people who uses nice steel tend to be able to release the potential of the steel as they tend to have very good heat treating skill so it usually goes hand in hand.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I'd love to be strong enough to strap a toolbox that big on my back and walk around all day.

So you're telling me that your job requires you to carry a box full of tools, yet you refuse to do so and get by with only a knife???

Something smells fishy (like tilapia)...

 

[AndreLinoge]

I'm better than all of you, and no one can disprove that. My knives get used harder than yours and nothing you say will change that. I use my knives to take core samples and dig fossils. One sharpening of my super steel chinesium saber framelock chainsaw machete core drill particle slicer will last roughly an Epoch. My experience > your experience.


The OP had a point. The retards that populate this part of the forums dont like logic, so out they come with the attacks and snide remarks about steel..

Everyone that has since posted something snooty about steel types- i guarantee you that you could be handed 2 unmarked blades with the same edge finish and overall geometry and couldnt tell me what either were. Hell, most of you couldnt tell me if they were even different. Any anyone who could.. Hasnt wasted time with this thread.

Bodog, are you a customs thief? Er, umm.. I mean inspector? I cant think of anyone but a bullshart artist otherwise that would have that vague of a job.

And remember, whatever I do with MY knives, your knives cant handle. Ever. (Lol.. Its rediculous when you actually say it in so few words, isnt it?)

 

[bodog]

So you're telling me that your job requires you to carry a box full of tools, yet you refuse to do so and get by with only a knife???

Something smells fishy (like tilapia)...

I didn't say it REQUIRED a box full of tools. I said I carried the tools the job requires. But then guys go talking about carrying THE BEST tools and I say if I did that then I'd need to carry a box full of tools. You're getting mixed up with my statements to other people.

 

[SBaker34]

I'm better than all of you, and no one can disprove that. My knives get used harder than yours and nothing you say will change that. I use my knives to take core samples and dig fossils. One sharpening of my super steel chinesium saber framelock chainsaw machete core drill particle slicer will last roughly an Epoch. My experience > your experience.


The OP had a point. The retards that populate this part of the forums dont like logic, so out they come with the attacks and snide remarks about steel..

Everyone that has since posted something snooty about steel types- i guarantee you that you could be handed 2 unmarked blades with the same edge finish and overall geometry and couldnt tell me what either were. Hell, most of you couldnt tell me if they were even different. Any anyone who could.. Hasnt wasted time with this thread.

Bodog, are you a customs thief? Er, umm.. I mean inspector? I cant think of anyone but a bullshart artist otherwise that would have that vague of a job.

And remember, whatever I do with MY knives, your knives cant handle. Ever. (Lol.. Its rediculous when you actually say it in so few words, isnt it?)

Strongest opinion so far is you

 

[Halfneck]

bodog I think you missed the point the OP was trying to make. Most people, even us knife-nuts, can get by in our daily lives without the need for a high end steel. Not that we won't want it, or be better served by a better steel, but that we could. Then there is the smaller segment that actually might have their daily knife use improved by a high end steel. With your vague job description you might fall into the latter. Now get your panties out of a bunch because you sure came off as antagonistic with your first post.