Too much worry about steel types?

This is getting weird. I'd like to know what kind of job involves opening large quantities of food containers, and non food dry goods and construction materials?
 
I think part of the reason why steel gets hyped so much is that it's an easy sell. It's much easier to sell a knife by telling an under-informed customer "this knife is made of XYZ-2000, which is an ultra premium steel made in a country that gives it some kind of prestige status" rather than "this knife has a blade geometry and edge presentation that make it particularly suited to ____, ______, and _______ with a steel optimized to performing properly in those functional contexts."

The real things that make a knife good are readily apparent to careful students of the tool, but easily 9 times out of 10 a fellow who's, perhaps, an administrative white collar worker, walks into a shop and asks the man at the counter "I'm going hunting for the first time. I need a hunting knife." The man at the counter might actually know his stuff or he could just be holding the floor down and he wants to actually do something else as a career and couldn't care less about knives. Such a fellow is apt to grab a knife with a guthook or a camo handle and read the little blurb from the manufacturer to the customer, with the message being "this one is made of good stuff, so buy it." Meanwhile another knife would actually be more appropriate for the context of use the customer will actually be experiencing, but it's not in the case because the store manager also doesn't know anything and he's the one in charge of what gets ordered or not. He just looks at the sales numbers and points to the popular one and says "more like this one!"

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Claus0BF said:
Hi Bladeforums!

I am a member to this great Forums since quite a while, reading a lot but not posting anything as up to now. But now - I feel like doing so [emoji4]

What goes through my mind quite often when reading about different steel types and their benefits and draw backs is as follows:

I have an accumulation of about 70 folding and fixed blade knives. I do not use every one of them, because there are some blades in this stack I simply don't have any use for. But most of them get used at least from time to time.

I do freehand sharpening and edge reprofiling and have a small collection of nice natural, ceramic and diamond stones, as well as two double sided leather strops with different compounds applied to them.

My blades are made of a lot of different steel types - ranging from simple C75 (1075) carbon steel, over tool steels like O1, A2 and D2, and stainless steels like VG10 and 440C to "super" steels varying from CPM-M4 to Elmax.

And my experience is, that I can get every one of them VERY sharp. Every single blade I am able to get hair whittling sharp. Every one could easily slice through the thinnest rolling papers available. Even those carbide monsters like D2.
Yes some of them I could get just a little bit sharper than others - especially the low alloy carbon steel ones.
But that is just by a very small amount.
And yes, some of them may loose this (to me) very high level of sharpness a tiny bit faster than others. But that doesn't matter to me, since I like stropping my blades.
And yes, those small differences are by no means only due to the selected steel types. Heat treatment and blade/edge geometry play a big role there as well. As do my sharpening skills.

In this regard it sure is of meaning to know, how I use my knives. Well, I live in a big city. I use my knives mainly for food prep, opening packages, cutting cardboard and all those little chores a city boy encounters in his day to day life. So it's not heavy use... but more or less daily use.

What I'd like to say with all that: in every day life, regarding pocket knives most people will be very well served by any decent blade steel from any reputable manufacturer (I'm not talking those "jarbenzas"). So "beginners" should consider the following: don't worry to much about the steel type. There is much more important things to a good knife, such as blade geometry, ergonomics and (in my opinion) even looks. Get a knife you like, learn to sharpen and use it. Then you will find out, what is important in a knife for you. All this debating about steel types sure can be fun, but it is for the biggest part only theory and does not make a large difference in practice in most circumstances a knife is used.

This is just my experiences and opinion. Feel free to disagree! [emoji4]

Thanks for reading,
Claus0
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Well you may not post much but quality is better then quantity.
Great post. I agree
 
AndreLinoge said:
The OP had a point. The retards that populate this part of the forums dont like logic, so out they come with the attacks and snide remarks about steel..

Everyone that has since posted something snooty about steel types- i guarantee you that you could be handed 2 unmarked blades with the same edge finish and overall geometry and couldnt tell me what either were. Hell, most of you couldnt tell me if they were even different. Any anyone who could.. Hasnt wasted time with this thread.

Bodog, are you a customs thief? Er, umm.. I mean inspector? I cant think of anyone but a bullshart artist otherwise that would have that vague of a job.
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Outstanding guess. Right on the head. Don't get us confused with TSA. I've never stolen anything and I'd personally arrest a coworker who did (or make sure the appropriate entity did).

But I've only been doing this for a couple of years, hence all the grunt work I have to put in. I held another job where I was tearing cars up in the middle of nowhere which is where I started needing to use knives for more than cutting normal edc stuff.

And while I couldn't say a blank blade is this specific steel or that, I could say after several days whether it serves my purposes or not.
 
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Just a fyi, only among knife collectors is there the mentality that all knives are meant for nothing but light duty slicing.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Getting the right general class of steel is what's most important. Specific steel has an impact, but it's minimal compared to using a steel that just in the right ballpark for the design/application. Generally it's really more the designer's job to figure that stuff out, so the consumer ideally shouldn't have to worry about the steel much if the range of intended function is adequately described so they can appropriately match tool to task.
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That is probably the best post in the thread so far.
 
SBaker34 said:
The steels composition has an effect on that though... anyone gotten 440c to 65hrc?
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I'm no blade smith, maybe one day lol, but wouldn't it be proned to, forget chipping, shatter like glass! if dropped on the floor at that hardness?
 
mael333ca said:
I'm no blade smith, maybe one day lol, but wouldn't it be proned to, forget chipping, shatter like glass! if dropped on the floor at that hardness?
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Probably. But if so that would mean steel composition plays a large roll
 
SBaker34 said:
Probably. But if so that would mean steel composition plays a large roll
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well, yes and no. yes in the sense that steels have their specs and proper range of RHc to attain, but not so inside the respect of this parameter. A proper heat treat, a proper geometry for the job at hand, are far more important then the steels composition. But don't get me wrong, I really enjoy metallurgy and the urge to push the technology further. I am a steel junky trough and trough! lol
 
Another factor worth noting in the discussion so far is that often in simple tools every variable is significantly tied to multiple other variables. For instance, when designing for a specific use, a change in the curve of the edge might require a different shape to the handle to bring the optimization back into balance. In the case of steel, the intended context of use will determine what class of steels is appropriate, and then a combination of the specific steel, heat treatment, and application will all impact the optimum geometry. If one of those factors is thrown out of balance for some other design consideration, the others all need to be recalibrated to suit.

When using a high performance material in a design, you generally have two (grossly simplified) options: use an equal amount of material for an increase in strength, etc. or use less material at equal strength, etc. In order to see gains in cutting effectiveness the latter is the better course of action in most cases, yet it's usually the former that we see in practice. Manufacturers have an easier time swapping steels as if it's like changing the color of the handle material, when really it would call for re-optimization of the geometry for the original context of use. :p
 
mael333ca said:
well, yes and no. yes in the sense that steels have their specs and proper range of RHc to attain, but not so inside the respect of this parameter. A proper heat treat, a proper geometry for the job at hand, are far more important then the steels composition. But don't get me wrong, I really enjoy metallurgy and the urge to push the technology further. I am a steel junky trough and trough! lol
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I'm just saying that the difference between two steels at 55hrc might be small. But if one will easily reach 65hrc for example. Then it makes a big difference
 
There's way too much importance placed on "Super Steels". I think it's more of a selling point for some knives.
 
Fascinating. :)

I'm probably not qualified to make a blanket statement about what should matter to everyone else (newbie, emeritus or somewhere in between). So I'm gonna stay in my lane here and say that steel type does matter to me -- up to a point [sic], and with a caveat or two.

It's important to me to understand the properties of steels, as well as the basic differences among various types. From there, though, I have to factor things like heat-treat of the steel, geometry of the blade, and intended (actual, practical) use.

So in my personal experience, and in practical application, then, I find there are differences among steels. Sometimes that matters to me -- a lot -- and at other times, not so much. ;)

Mostly, I maintain my lane, stay practical, listen to smarter people, try not to be an intolerable minutianaut and just use my knives. :D

But like I said, the conversation is fascinating. :cool:

Tom @ KnivesShipFree
 
I think there's too much emphasis on wear resistance over everything else. Others think there's too much emphasis placed on toughness. Others think there's too much emphasis placed on hardness. Maybe we're all wrong and we should be looking at getting the blade that resists deformation and fracturing throughout the blade and simply adjust the angles of the primary and secondary bevels? :confused:
 
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