toothy edges work great...

B

boki_zca

BANNED
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Messages
439
I just sharpened few of my kitchen and hunting knives on belt sander with 100 grit belt and then stropped it to remove burr.Got an excellent edge that both shaves hair and bites into soft materials like crazy.Im done with high polish finish etc. basically a waste of time for me.Had all my blades shaving sharp with high finish edges ...but performance was way less than now.(its ok for wood I guess but thats all).
 
How dare you Sir...How dare you!!!

Now you pick up that Belgian coticule and get right back to your bench - you've got a lot of work to do!

What is this place coming to...;)
 
I agree. I used to polish the crap out of my edges and they were great for cutting paper and shaving arm hair but when I actually used them in daily tasks the edge just seemed to slide right off of whatever I was trying to cut. I used to take my edges through a progression of fine stones/strops in order to completely remove the burr. I have finally learned that by controlling pressure on the stone I can have a burr free edge off of a low grit stone that still shaves and cuts paper cleanly but will also cut rope and other similar materials. For my knives a polished edge is worthless and I think I have retired my fine ceramic and water stones. While the polished edge looks cool it just doesn't seem to have the same performance that a rougher edge has.
 
boki_zca, i just sharpened a small hatchet head for a member on the belt sander and used a 120 grit belt before going to the slotted paper wheel. just for fun i ran it down through my beard and cut off some hairs. before going to the slotted wheel i was going to switch over to a 320 grit belt and make a few final passes but decided the 120 grit edge would be good enough.

(can you fill out your profile so other members will know a little more about you?)
 
I think all these posts are useless without micropictures. What I want to see is the cutting edge which I am sure is ultra smooth from the powered polish.
 
Last edited:
Talley1013 said:
I agree. I used to polish the crap out of my edges and they were great for cutting paper and shaving arm hair but when I actually used them in daily tasks the edge just seemed to slide right off of whatever I was trying to cut. I used to take my edges through a progression of fine stones/strops in order to completely remove the burr. I have finally learned that by controlling pressure on the stone I can have a burr free edge off of a low grit stone that still shaves and cuts paper cleanly but will also cut rope and other similar materials. For my knives a polished edge is worthless and I think I have retired my fine ceramic and water stones. While the polished edge looks cool it just doesn't seem to have the same performance that a rougher edge has.
Click to expand...

This echos my findings for years . The polished edge has a place for shaving but for utility cutting (limbs, rope, ect.) ease of maintenance and edge retention the more coarsely sharpened edge does better . Welcome to the "Dark Side" my friend . DM
 
HeavyHanded said:
How dare you Sir...How dare you!!!

Now you pick up that Belgian coticule and get right back to your bench - you've got a lot of work to do!

What is this place coming to...;)
Click to expand...

This is so funny ! I can't believe I'm reading it here . I smell the winds of change blowing . DM
 
Talley1013 said:
I agree. I used to polish the crap out of my edges and they were great for cutting paper and shaving arm hair but when I actually used them in daily tasks the edge just seemed to slide right off of whatever I was trying to cut. I used to take my edges through a progression of fine stones/strops in order to completely remove the burr. I have finally learned that by controlling pressure on the stone I can have a burr free edge off of a low grit stone that still shaves and cuts paper cleanly but will also cut rope and other similar materials. For my knives a polished edge is worthless and I think I have retired my fine ceramic and water stones. While the polished edge looks cool it just doesn't seem to have the same performance that a rougher edge has.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head.
 
if an edge is highly polished and you cut something hard that rolls the edge you are more or less done. if you have a coarser edge and cut the same identical thing the edge will have less of a tendency to roll so it will last a whole lot longer. its like i had said before about a highly polished edge, they are a novelty edge and have no real use in daily life.
 
richard j said:
if an edge is highly polished and you cut something hard that rolls the edge you are more or less done. if you have a coarser edge and cut the same identical thing the edge will have less of a tendency to roll so it will last a whole lot longer. its like i had said before about a highly polished edge, they are a novelty edge and have no real use in daily life.
Click to expand...

Sigh. Now in your own words, without telling me about the kitchen knife you made that cut down a tree and shaved arm hair, tell me how a higher polish/scratch pattern will cause an edge to roll. I'm honestly curious. Just because edge degradation is less noticible in a toothy edge because it's apex is already garbage, doesn't mean it's anymore durable. It means its harder to notice. Right now in my pocket I have a strider SMF which I'm going to reprofile tomorrow and a Gayle Bradley which has a very high mirror polished bevel. The GB I've used daily for over two months, only touching it up after sharpening it with a couple of passes on a strop. It's never "rolled" because it shows my reflection. It cuts things too, if I press it against a tomato, it cuts right in, not squishes it. It can cut rope, flesh, wood, cardboard, string etc... It doesn't just magically bounce off things. If you feel a "toothy" edge cuts better all the time, then go ahead and apply them to your knives, but you need to stop spreading misinformation. You're thought of as infallible by some and if anyone questions you, they get called a troll. Guess what? That's great that you've found how you like to sharpen your edges, but there's no need for you to spread garbage around saying mirror edges are a novelty and useless. I've been cutting with nothing but mirror polished bevels for a couple years now, and oddly enough have not experienced any of the things you've said. Maybe those who say their polished knives don't cut anything should learn how to properly sharpen it and how to properly cut using the edge that their knife has. My GB will send you to the hospital if you grab it by the blade, not roll over.
 
230grains said:
Sigh. Now in your own words, without telling me about the kitchen knife you made that cut down a tree and shaved arm hair, tell me how a higher polish/scratch pattern will cause an edge to roll. I'm honestly curious. Just because edge degradation is less noticible in a toothy edge because it's apex is already garbage, doesn't mean it's anymore durable. It means its harder to notice.
Click to expand...

If you use your knife daily around heavy equipment, you might have a better idea of what Richard's talking about. Incidental (accidental) edge contact with metal items results (of course this just my observation) in much higher levels of damage to a fine edge. It has no highs and lows, so the entire cutting surface takes it on the chin and throws light back everywhere it made contact. Coarse edges only throw light back from the high points and while certainly damaged, will continue to work well. With a fine edge you'll be left to curse and put it back in your pocket till it gets fixed.

Tailor the edge to your uses and you'll be happy, if a totally unified fine edge works for you, then run with it. Clearly there's a need for more than one type of edge prep in the world. I keep my camping hatchet finely worked and it cuts well and for a long time. The same scheme in a working pocket knife doesn't deliver the goods for my uses.
HH
 
I used to always finish a knife on on a Norton fine India stone, and that worked for me for years. Then I got in to woodcarving and started polishing all my edges, not just my woodcarving knives. these edges were awesome to show off to others, sliver paper, tree top arm hair, and just look at yourself in that polished edge. However when I went to cut something with that polished edge it was just lacking in day to day cutting ability. That edge would slide off plastic banding and I really hated how that polish went away after cutting heavy cardboard (this one is just aestetics not functional). These were the sharpest knives I ever used, and I never noticed the degredation being that aweful, just stropped each night.

Then I went to convexing everything. Sandpaper an leather was all over the house. I used to polish with paper to 2000 grit then strop on chrome ox. now I usually stop at 800 and strop on bare leather. This for me provides the best in working edges. Those plastic banding straps no longer stand a chance, arm hair- gone( just ask my wife how funny a mange arm looks), paper is still slivered, and maintenence is still easy as ever.

I do still polish quite a few of my edges, but the ones I carry to work just dont benefit from being polished. I think I walk down the middle of the road on this subject, I have just found what works best for me and in what situations.

Thanks for your time
Chris
 
HeavyHanded said:
If you use your knife daily around heavy equipment, you might have a better idea of what Richard's talking about. Incidental (accidental) edge contact with metal items results (of course this just my observation) in much higher levels of damage to a fine edge. It has no highs and lows, so the entire cutting surface takes it on the chin and throws light back everywhere it made contact. Coarse edges only throw light back from the high points and while certainly damaged, will continue to work well. With a fine edge you'll be left to curse and put it back in your pocket till it gets fixed.

Tailor the edge to your uses and you'll be happy, if a totally unified fine edge works for you, then run with it. Clearly there's a need for more than one type of edge prep in the world. I keep my camping hatchet finely worked and it cuts well and for a long time. The same scheme in a working pocket knife doesn't deliver the goods for my uses.
HH
Click to expand...

I constantly use my knife around machinery. I'm a cnc machinist. I've used knives to pry out broken drill inserts from a melted bore drill both carbide and CBNs, I untangle chips with my knives wrapped around tooling. I scrap stickers off of bar stock etc.. I've smacked edges into tool holders, stock etc.. You know what I found? If you hit something hard with an edge, the level of polish doesn't matter, but more so the thickness of the bevel. Whack an edge into a carbide insert, an 80 grit edge or a 20k grit edge, the polish and scratch pattern will not matter, just the shape of the bevel. I understand that you're saying polished edges aren't for everyone, nor are rough edges, that's not my issue. Everyone should be free to choose the edge of their liking. What annoys me is that unlike many here, Richard just rambles about how only his edges last, how if any steps are taken after where he ends his knives, its a novelty edge. He tells you a polished edge will roll, not back it up with anything, just because he says so. If you ask him why he changes the subject and tells you about his kitchen knife that chopped down a tree and shaved arm hair. I'm fine with however anyone sharpens their knives, what I'm not fine with is people spouting BS as fact and preaching like a televangelist. If you want a toothy edge, fine. If you want a polished edge? fine. If you want a quick edge, good for you. If you want to spend a long time on your edges, just as well. Just stop spouting your opinion as fact and then when asked to back it up, change the subject or call people trolls.
 
some ppl just can't stop trolling ...

don't you understand that if your polished edge work great it's because you actually failed polishing, boki polished right that's why his edge rolls as soon as it's touching a tomato ...

sorry but this "flavor of the month" discussion about polished rolls polished can't cut a tomato and toothy rocks toothy can sustain hitting glass no problem is getting hillarious
 
230grains said:
Sigh. Now in your own words, without telling me about the kitchen knife you made that cut down a tree and shaved arm hair, tell me how a higher polish/scratch pattern will cause an edge to roll. I'm honestly curious. Just because edge degradation is less noticible in a toothy edge because it's apex is already garbage, doesn't mean it's anymore durable. It means its harder to notice. Right now in my pocket I have a strider SMF which I'm going to reprofile tomorrow and a Gayle Bradley which has a very high mirror polished bevel. The GB I've used daily for over two months, only touching it up after sharpening it with a couple of passes on a strop. It's never "rolled" because it shows my reflection. It cuts things too, if I press it against a tomato, it cuts right in, not squishes it. It can cut rope, flesh, wood, cardboard, string etc... It doesn't just magically bounce off things. If you feel a "toothy" edge cuts better all the time, then go ahead and apply them to your knives, but you need to stop spreading misinformation. You're thought of as infallible by some and if anyone questions you, they get called a troll. Guess what? That's great that you've found how you like to sharpen your edges, but there's no need for you to spread garbage around saying mirror edges are a novelty and useless. I've been cutting with nothing but mirror polished bevels for a couple years now, and oddly enough have not experienced any of the things you've said. Maybe those who say their polished knives don't cut anything should learn how to properly sharpen it and how to properly cut using the edge that their knife has. My GB will send you to the hospital if you grab it by the blade, not roll over.
Click to expand...
I have been trying the various sharpening techniques gleaned from this forum for the past few years. I am no expert and cannot produce edges like the ones you have achieved 230grains, but my experience so far mirrors boki_zca's.

I used to start with 120 mesh and go all the way down to 8000 mesh stepping down sequentially on the grits by free hand. Then I would touch up with CrO2 on a leather belt. The edges would gleam and cut incredibly for while. But after a few rounds on cardboard or old carpet, I would begin to see the glint and cutting performance would then deteriorate quickly. This is on S30V on not some cheap surgical grade stainless steel.

I then read some posts here, changed the technique, stopped at 325 mesh with the hones (the blue DMT stones) and then went directly to the strop. The resulting edge while somewhat polished, is a lot more durable. I can go for months without touch ups. It can still shave.

I use the exact same bevel angle when stopping at 325 mesh or going down to 8000 mesh. I am not sure why the polished edge is not as durable. I agree it is not because it folds over, because the included angle is the same, so scratch pattern should not affect edge integrity. I suspect it may be because, by stepping down the grits for too long, the carbide inclusions in the metal (which do the actual cutting) may be systematically removed, exposing more of just the softer core metal which deteriorates at a quicker rate upon contact.

In sum, I have tried both the techniques on the same blade, with the same bevel angle. For my needs, the toothier edge after stropping works very well and I will stick with that for a durable and functional edge.

The following is anecdotal, but I have to mention it in this context. Richard J sharpened a kukri for me couple of years back. I have used that thing to hack and cleave through seasoned wood and saplings. The edge is still so pristine that it can push cut copy paper (not newspaper). All he did was run it through a 400 grit belt and strop it down with his wheels. Now Why do I have to step down the grits to a polished edge, if 400 grit + stropping can produce results like that?
 
boki_zca said:
I just sharpened few of my kitchen and hunting knives on belt sander with 100 grit belt and then stropped it to remove burr.
Click to expand...

Since you stropped it that would mean the edge is no longer 100 grit. Stropping polishes which means removes metal. So its not a 100 grit edge.
 
whatever....Im just saying it works 10x better in actual use than highly polished edge except for wood carving or smtg similar maybe.And the polished edges I made didnt roll cutting a tomatoes etc.Im just saying what works better in real life not just shaving arm hair cutting paper and showing off lol.Try slicing meat with highly polished edges......it just doesnt work!!!ask any butcher what they do or try it yourself!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top