toothy edges work great...

[pwet]

Every trolling could be avoided if more ppl used "i prefer this " instead of "this doesn't work"

 

[unit]

Every trolling could be avoided if more ppl used "i prefer this " instead of "this doesn't work"

This may be one of the best points raised in this thread.:thumbup:

There also is the propensity for people to not fully understand a concept, try/test their understanding of the concept, have poor results, and then conclude that the concept is bad.

I have seen posts from people that attempted polished edges or toothy edges and based on their reports it is clear to me that their understanding of what these things are and mine are quite different.

I have personally produced a VERY finely polished wire edge...and an equally worthless burred toothy edge. Once you gain enough experience and understanding with each, you begin to see that (like many things in life) there is not "right answer". Rather there is are choices that should be considered based on your needs, desires, and preferred methods.

 

[RubiconSS]

Yes and yes, Polished vs Toothy, Manual vs Assisted Sharpening ALL discussed as
"I prefer...."
Anything else is like arguing over a favorite color or what's funny and what isn't.
I have now taken notice that of all my knives, I have some that are toothy edged and many polished edge. I like them all.

 

[The Z]

Back on topic...

What would be the result if I took a toothy edge (say finished on a fine carborundum, india stone, or something like that), and then went straight to a fine pasted strop, say green compound, maybe just a dozen strokes per side? Obviously it would help knock off any lingering burr, but would this have the effect of lightly polishing the actual teeth, while leaving them intact? So in other words, you still have the "micro-serrations" but they are smoothed out a bit? This is what I have been doing to my pocket knives recently, substituting automotive rubbing compound for green, and I must say I have liked the results.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Back on topic...

What would be the result if I took a toothy edge (say finished on a fine carborundum, india stone, or something like that), and then went straight to a fine pasted strop, say green compound, maybe just a dozen strokes per side? Obviously it would help knock off any lingering burr, but would this have the effect of lightly polishing the actual teeth, while leaving them intact? So in other words, you still have the "micro-serrations" but they are smoothed out a bit? This is what I have been doing to my pocket knives recently, substituting automotive rubbing compound for green, and I must say I have liked the results.

It works, but not very well. First, it slowly "melts" your grind pattern and that's a difference you'll immediately be able to feel when you draw cut. Also, (and I'd love for a few other people to verify this) the finer compounds do a poor job of burr removal unless the burr is extremely small, not usually the case coming off of a coarse grit. Otherwise it simply polishes the burr. Having tried just what you're suggesting, I can say (in my experience) it will marginally improve the push-cut characteristics of your edge, but will noticeably degrade your draw cut. I recall some other members posting good results using this method, but that hasn't been my experience. As an alternative, I tried a different approach some months ago and can report what I feel are great results. The saga is detailed somewhat in this thread (minus the back and forth "coarse vs polished"):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=793569 Most pertinent stuff on pages 1, 6,&7

About 5 months later and I still haven't needed to put any of the knives I initially tested back on a stone. The edges are just as crisp as day one with pretty much zero additional metal removal. One of these has been my EDU knife over the entire period, and has been maintained with nothing more than a few passes occasionally on a coarse grit strop (detailed in the link). Should you decide to try this, please give some feedback as its certainly not a common practice. Also, good quality, graded SiC lapping powders can be had dirt cheap from any outfit that sells lapidary supplies.

HH

 

[David Martin]

HH, Yes-this mimics my findings as well. The reason being a fine carborumdum is a stated 280grit and the India 320g . Which is way too coarse for the .5 micron rouge to have much affect on the edge toward burr removal . This scenario is exactly what most sharpeners unknowningly struggle w/ in sharpening and stropping . The .5 green rouge has little affect on an edge until 600-800grit(or higher) is arrived at. Thus, leaving much of the burr or thru more stropping removing much of the cutting points. Hence, creating a double minus on the edge.DM

 

[Bill1170]

Forums are funny in this regard.
Gun Forums: 9mm vs 40mm
Stereo Forums: Tubes vs Solid state
Muscle car Forums: Big Block vs Small Block
Jeep Forums; manual vs automatic

Here : It's edges, Polished vs Toothy. I wonder if the one thing that can be said for all these timeless debates is simply, Personal Preference.

Surely 40mm cannon has greater stopping power than 9mm handgun? Difficult to carry concealed, I'll admit.

 

[RubiconSS]

Surely 40mm cannon has greater stopping power than 9mm handgun? Difficult to carry concealed, I'll admit.

HeeHee and from a Field Artillery Officer at that. Typing and the metric system are on my bucket list:thumbup:

 

[Fupse R.]

Sigh. Now in your own words, without telling me about the kitchen knife you made that cut down a tree and shaved arm hair, tell me how a higher polish/scratch pattern will cause an edge to roll. I'm honestly curious. Just because edge degradation is less noticible in a toothy edge because it's apex is already garbage, doesn't mean it's anymore durable. It means its harder to notice. Right now in my pocket I have a strider SMF which I'm going to reprofile tomorrow and a Gayle Bradley which has a very high mirror polished bevel. The GB I've used daily for over two months, only touching it up after sharpening it with a couple of passes on a strop. It's never "rolled" because it shows my reflection. It cuts things too, if I press it against a tomato, it cuts right in, not squishes it. It can cut rope, flesh, wood, cardboard, string etc... It doesn't just magically bounce off things. If you feel a "toothy" edge cuts better all the time, then go ahead and apply them to your knives, but you need to stop spreading misinformation. You're thought of as infallible by some and if anyone questions you, they get called a troll. Guess what? That's great that you've found how you like to sharpen your edges, but there's no need for you to spread garbage around saying mirror edges are a novelty and useless. I've been cutting with nothing but mirror polished bevels for a couple years now, and oddly enough have not experienced any of the things you've said. Maybe those who say their polished knives don't cut anything should learn how to properly sharpen it and how to properly cut using the edge that their knife has. My GB will send you to the hospital if you grab it by the blade, not roll over.

Well I can tell your passionate about blades and for this I respect you, but your over reacting and quite misunderstanding him. All edges dull its just the fate of knives. But different things effect the speed and intensity of the rolling. Your hand is not strong enough to roll almost any blade so that was quite silly to even say. But I see what your thinking. Using your high performance blades for cutting fruits veggies and even most foods and meat, won't roll your blade, especially if you have a good steel and good edge geometry. Rolling happens when the point of the very then edge of the knife gets pressured against something that causes enough resistance that the blade will either roll or chip. Harder tougher steels have a higher force resistance but when they meet their point of defeat they tend to chip, while softer ((stainless and kitchen)) steels usually have a lower resistance rate and will roll instead of chipping. This is why theres different grits used when sharpening a knife. The very coarse are used to reprofile and edge. Cut down the steel till the edge is all even and no chip in sight. While with rolling there's 2 things that are normally done. Honing is done between sharpening to restraighten the blade from slight usually unnoticeable rolls that haven't rolled far enough to be an actual issue yet. Normally you'd need a jewellers glass to see this, the point of honing is too push the edge back straight, so that the edge remains perfect longer before needing another sharpening which removes the rolled steel to create a new perfect edge. Now from what you've said, you don't seem to do anything that would your blade through any serious resistance, as not even meet really is tough enough to fight steel. But for those of us that enjoy using knives for work and recreation as in carving wood, cutting zipties and plastic. Ya know the bigger side of the knife use spectrum as kitchen is such a tiny side of it. Then you'd understand how fast an edge can go especially when it comes to the quality of the steel, it's heat treatment, and it's edge profile. The magic 3 that most knife people know about. You won't need this info in your kitchen though unless your tryna cut nails or bone. Though if the steels good enough bone shouldn't be an issue either I think. Alot of high end kitchen knives are used from high end steel. Yet alot of utility knives use premium steels. Thats why companies keep trying to make steels with even better edge retention and find better heat treatments.

 

[Fupse R.]

now i'm getting irritated.
STOP SAYING BS
i cut meat every day at work with edges produced on a 10K naniwa, stropped on balsa with 0,5mic CrO. that's my trade. YOUR polished edge won't work, perhaps. your cutting techinque with a polished edge won't work, perhaps. and when i say i cut meat, that's not cutting my steack, that's portionning veal ribs, beef tenderloin, breaking down whole lambs etc ...

if you can't sharpen or can't use a knife please don't make generalisations.

for reference a 10K naniwa is 1mic average grit size. you have to hunt the scratches in the light to see the scratch pattern.

I totally agree with you that polished edges are more then capable of cutting meat. But I just wanted to point out that as far as I can tell you didn't mention a blade steel while saying this and we'll some steels like terravantium are famous for losing the polish edge almost instantly to have a toothy edge that last longer then almost any knife can stay sharp. So it could be highly possible your polish edge becomes toothy and your using a toothy edge on your meets rather then a polished one. Toothy edges are like tiny serrations so if it's an argument which is better toothy obviously wins, but polished are superb push cuts and with any downwards force should cut perfectly in so you may do a little more downwards force but it should could smoothy and easy nun the less. Foods don't necessarily cause that much issue unless your using a butter knife or something.

 

[3D Anvil]

One thing to consider is that you CAN have your cake and eat it too, in a sense. You can create a mirror bevel and then, very easily, put a toothy micro-bevel on it with a coarser grit. That way you have the advantage of more bite and also the benefit of a smooth bevel for less cut resistance.

 

[000Robert]

Even though this thread is 11 years old, I rarely sharpen over 1000 grit. And I normally don't polish edges unless I specifically want it for push cutting.