toothy edges work great...

Actually I ate a steak last night, I used my spyderco persistance with a mirror edge. It sliced it very well. Didnt push cut as expected.
 
boki_zca said:
Try slicing meat with highly polished edges......it just doesnt work!!!ask any butcher what they do or try it yourself!!!
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now i'm getting irritated.
STOP SAYING BS
i cut meat every day at work with edges produced on a 10K naniwa, stropped on balsa with 0,5mic CrO. that's my trade. YOUR polished edge won't work, perhaps. your cutting techinque with a polished edge won't work, perhaps. and when i say i cut meat, that's not cutting my steack, that's portionning veal ribs, beef tenderloin, breaking down whole lambs etc ...

if you can't sharpen or can't use a knife please don't make generalisations.

for reference a 10K naniwa is 1mic average grit size. you have to hunt the scratches in the light to see the scratch pattern.
 
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I have been playing around with several edges lately (Spyderco factory edge, 220 grit edge that I stropped briefly to refine, and a polished "mirror" edge). All these edges are VG-10 which is a steel I like for various reason.

I realize that different steels and different geometries can give different results (so I used the same knife model for all my edges). And I will tell you straight off that my "testing" is ABSOLUTELY subjective.

With those disclaimers out of the way. The results tell me what I need to know...and I would suggest everyone else try something similar...then you will have your results that matter to you and then we can all stop arguing over what is better. Because better is subjective....it is like color. What you like is what you like, maybe because it works better for your uses, maybe because it looks the way you like and works well enough, maybe your uses have demonstrated a certain edge type is best for you?

We are all different and have different preferences and expectations. Having an edge that holds up to chopping is only important if you are chopping. I did a demo a while back about ZDP-189 at a super low angle cutting up a BUNCH of tires, then being able to shave arm hair (roughly)...some astute fellow pointed out that this is all well and good if we need to cut up a bunch of tires and shave our arms.

I can provide lots of demonstrations (some of which seem to dispatch some of the reports I have read here), but it appears that many people resist such info and stick with their beliefs...which is fine, because what you believe is fine, and is of little consequence to me.

Get my point?

Do what works for ya, run what ya brung.

Guys that are taking a dump on polished edges...perhaps the edge was poorly polished is not a good representation of what polished edges can be?

Guys taking a dump on toothy edges...perhaps you are not trying a toothy edge that was refined in the manner that some of these proponents discuss?

I feel like I am gaining experience with both types (and factory edges)....and guess what...a lot of info here is not in keeping with my observations. But do not believe me, check it for your self.
 
Good post Pwet. You cant slice materials like plastic rubber cardboard Ect. with a polished edge. You have to PUSH cut them. But with soft materials like meat, skin, tomatoes. you can slice them. Its all in the cutting technique.
 
I have nothing against toothy edges. I like them well. What I dont like is people spreading their opinion like its the only thing that has ever worked, and ignorance. Richard says he uses a 400 grit belt then removes the burr on his slotted paper wheel. THE EDGE IS NO LONGER 400 GRIT!!!!!!!!!! That paper wheel polishes the edge, not a mirror polish but It does change the scratch pattern. That is a polished edge. Agian i really like how toothy edges cut. But dont tell me that just because my edges are polished to a mirror that they roll in seconds and bounce off everything. A solid V of steel is appealing to me.(my opinion) So please find someone to get you a GOOD polished edge and try it with the right technique.
Rant over.
 
ahahha some pple on this forum are worse than kids..........get a life(thats for this guy above (PWET or smtg) ).Countless butchers I know and including myself use rougher grit edges because they cut meat better.I guess they all dont know shit.....like some pple on here say...........
 
boki_zca said:
ahahha some pple on this forum are worse than kids..........get a life(thats for this guy above (PWET or smtg) ).Countless butchers I know and including myself use rougher grit edges because they cut meat better.I guess they all dont know shit.....like some pple on here say...........
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no they just don't bother taking more time sharpening because they don't care about knives, steel, grits, experimenting, like most workers they do what someone that didn't care more than them taught them and that's it.

now if you want to stay on your biased thoughts allright.

like it's been said before, i respect your preferences, no problem. if you prefer a coarser edge, allright too, but please don't spread nonsense.

i prefer finer polish on my blades but that's not a reason to poo on ppl that don't think like me. i've never said a coarse edge was useless, never tried as hard a i could finding false arguments to prove that my preference are best ... that's childish.

have a good day.
 
boki_zca said:
I just sharpened few of my kitchen and hunting knives on belt sander with 100 grit belt and then stropped it to remove burr.Got an excellent edge that both shaves hair and bites into soft materials like crazy.Im done with high polish finish etc. basically a waste of time for me.Had all my blades shaving sharp with high finish edges ...but performance was way less than now.(its ok for wood I guess but thats all).
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boki_zca,
I new as soon as I read your post, that you were going to be getting a ton of s**t over it, but you are right! Just because it is real impressive to be able to shave hair from your arm, doesn't mean it's a good hard use edge. How many shaves do you get from a razor, before you have to change the blade? That's because a razor sharp edge is so thin, that it doesn't last.
Let the folks that get off on constantly sharpening their knives to keep them 'shaving sharp' do their thing, and you keep your blades sharpened as you suggested, and not have to sharpen them on a daily basis. Let the indignant remarks roll off. Arguing about it will just cause hard feelings.:D

EarlFH
 
jgloveracob said:
Good post Pwet. You cant slice materials like plastic rubber cardboard Ect. with a polished edge. You have to PUSH cut them. But with soft materials like meat, skin, tomatoes. you can slice them. Its all in the cutting technique.
Click to expand...

Ordinarily, I've been avoiding these discussions, as it always comes down to individual preference and circumstances to determine which is 'best' for any particular user. The endless preaching about 'this particular edge is best' is meaningless, unless applied to purely individual circumstances.

I will say this. I've been playing quite a bit with edges 'polished' up to around 2000 grit (using wet/dry sandpaper), then further shined up using strops with either or both of Simichrome & green compound. The statement above, saying that a polished edge won't slice materials like plastic, rubber, cardboard, etc., caught my eye. That's because this is almost exactly how I've been checking my (2000 grit) polished edge, and I'm finding the push-cutting AND slicing to be excellent at this level of polish. I've been testing these edges on cardboard (corrugated boxes), plastic (cutting up plastic coffee cans & lids). Haven't done any rubber yet, but I'm not worried about it's ability to handle that, either.

I'm finding that, regardless of how 'polished' the bevels are, it's got a lot more to do with how 'sharp' the apex of the edge is (polished or not). That makes much more difference, in what I've seen so far.
 
jgloveracob said:
I have nothing against toothy edges. I like them well. What I dont like is people spreading their opinion like its the only thing that has ever worked, and ignorance. Richard says he uses a 400 grit belt then removes the burr on his slotted paper wheel. THE EDGE IS NO LONGER 400 GRIT!!!!!!!!!! That paper wheel polishes the edge, not a mirror polish but It does change the scratch pattern. That is a polished edge. Agian i really like how toothy edges cut. But dont tell me that just because my edges are polished to a mirror that they roll in seconds and bounce off everything. A solid V of steel is appealing to me.(my opinion) So please find someone to get you a GOOD polished edge and try it with the right technique.
Rant over.
Click to expand...


Not only does Richard use a 400 grit belt to convex his knives, but its a very worn 400 grit belt, he has said so many times. For anyone who knows anything, that 400 grit belt becomes increasingly fine as its worn out, he is essentially leaving an edge of probably an 800 grit belt BEFORE he hits them with his polishing wheel. After the polishing wheel, the edge is no longer his imaginary rough 400 grit edge that he thinks he's getting, but in fact, rather polished. Oddly enough, none of this makes any sense to him, he only cares to tell you repeatedly how all a man needs is a 400 grit belt and paper wheels. Then again, if you asked him for advice on anything, whether it be the stock market or ice fishing, the answer you would get would be paper wheels. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. His system works for him, that's GREAT, the problem is he tells everyone else imaginary nonsense and they believe him. Why? Because it's easier. It's easier to say "Hold knife against wheel, they sharpen themselves!" then to go through the process of hand sharpening them for a long time. If I could get a superior edge by sliding my edge across two spinning pieces of cardboard, dont you think i'd be doing that instead of spending hours hand reprofiling and polishing my knives? I have a set of paper wheels hooked up to one of my bench grinders in my shop right now, I don't use them. They get your knives sharper than most come from the factory, thats for sure, but why settle?

EarlFH said:
boki_zca,
I new as soon as I read your post, that you were going to be getting a ton of s**t over it, but you are right! Just because it is real impressive to be able to shave hair from your arm, doesn't mean it's a good hard use edge. How many shaves do you get from a razor, before you have to change the blade? That's because a razor sharp edge is so thin, that it doesn't last.
Let the folks that get off on constantly sharpening their knives to keep them 'shaving sharp' do their thing, and you keep your blades sharpened as you suggested, and not have to sharpen them on a daily basis. Let the indignant remarks roll off. Arguing about it will just cause hard feelings.:D

EarlFH
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You're comparing a razor edge to a high polished knife edge, think hard before your next post. Do you really think we're all talking about grinding the apex of the edge razor thin? Do you think polish/scratch pattern equates edge thickness? My Axe has a pure mirror polish on its bevel, it chops better. It's not rolling because it's so "thin" etc.

My polished kitchen knives (which are consequently ground never thin at the edge apex) cut like demons against everything. Veggies, Meat, everything. They don't roll over cutting what they're supposed to. They also glide through meat like butter, and don't bounce of tomatoes. If you're having this problem where your "polished" edges can't cut meat or veggies, you're sharpening it wrong. If I could get off with a stropped 80 grit edge, that sure would save me some time.
 
Forums are funny in this regard.
Gun Forums: 9mm vs 40mm
Stereo Forums: Tubes vs Solid state
Muscle car Forums: Big Block vs Small Block
Jeep Forums; manual vs automatic

Here : It's edges, Polished vs Toothy. I wonder if the one thing that can be said for all these timeless debates is simply, Personal Preference.
 
i do use a worn 400 grit belt but i didnt say exactly what part of the blade i use it on did i :rolleyes:?
 
rubiconss said:
Forums are funny in this regard.
Gun Forums: 9mm vs 40mm
Stereo Forums: Tubes vs Solid state
Muscle car Forums: Big Block vs Small Block
Jeep Forums; manual vs automatic

Here : It's edges, Polished vs Toothy. I wonder if the one thing that can be said for all these timeless debates is simply, Personal Preference.
Click to expand...

rubiconss,
Oh come on now. You know it's not correct if it's not done exactly like the next guy thinks it should be done! Just because it works for you, just means your not as smart as you should be.:yawn:
 
richard j said:
i do use a worn 400 grit belt but i didnt say exactly what part of the blade i use it on did i :rolleyes:?
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Sure you did, you used it on the edge. Don't back peddle, stick by it. A worn 400 grit belt is NOT a 400 grit edge. A worn 400 grit belt + a buffing wheel with polishing compound is nowhere in the realm of a 400 grit edge.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8463172&postcount=7

I also have emails from you saying how you use a worn 400 grit belt to sharpen then follow it up with the paper buffing wheels.

richard j said:
i use a worn 400 grit belt and finish off with the paper buffing wheel. i cant hold steady enough to cut hairs but i can treetop hairs easily and cut free hanging newspaper just as easy.
Click to expand...
 
EarlFH said:
rubiconss,
Oh come on now. You know it's not correct if it's not done exactly like the next guy thinks it should be done! Just because it works for you, just means your not as smart as you should be.:yawn:
Click to expand...

(LoL) How true. God the debates that have almost come to blows over K&N airfilters:rolleyes: Crazy.
 
In the email I believe you are referring to, I said that "... i looked at my 400 grit belts that i have been using for the final edge and its getting quite worn so now i'm going to keep a belt just for the final few passes to work up an edge"
I work up a burr with a good 400 grit belt and follow it up with a few passes on the paper wheels. it makes for a sharp and durable edges, as some other members have said
I have said all i'm going to say in this thread to you.
 
richard j said:
In the email I believe you are referring to, I said that "... i looked at my 400 grit belts that i have been using for the final edge and its getting quite worn so now i'm going to keep a belt just for the final few passes to work up an edge"
I work up a burr with a good 400 grit belt and follow it up with a few passes on the paper wheels. it makes for a sharp and durable edges, as some other members have said
I have said all i'm going to say in this thread to you.
Click to expand...

How can you say that when I just quoted you saying you use a worn 400 grit belt as your finishing belt before further polishing it on your buffing wheel? It's right there in black and white?
 
pwet said:
really, hillarious ...
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I was just going to say... I came here to read about edges, but instead read some hilarious text.

I am going to have to agree with whatever UNIT has to say because he has conducted tests and has documented it well enough, numbers don't lie.

Also, paper wheel or any powered buffing/stropping is going to create a VERY polished cutting edge.
 
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