TOPS Knives

Swamp Rat...ah yes...I knew their rep would chime in sooner or later. Don't get me wrong, I like their stuff too. Never owned a TOPS but am considering it.

Mr Stamp,

What's the price comparison between SRKW and TOPS? Are Swamp Rat knives all "handmade" using your definition above?

Thanks
 
TOPS feel and look 'Made' not 'Manufactured' People talk about the material, but really, in bulk amounts, how much are we talking about, maybe a couple of dollars?

TOPS F&F is great and the biggest let down is that you need to handle them to appreciate them. Photo's, no matter how good, just dont do it.
 
100% made in the USA, and IMO, not overpriced. They are nicely finished, and come with good sheaths.
 
I like mine, and I got very good prices on them at s4supply. Some of them don't have very good prices, but others are a good deal. I really like their small FBs.
 
Look at the ranger knives RD series. Better steel then 1095. A third of the price. I like a lot of their designs I just don't think 1095 is worth that much. I mean to me that is like buying a $300 dollar folder with Aus8a steel, a good steel but definetly not the best. For a hard use knife there are several other makers I would look to first. Such as Ranger,busse,Swamp rat,fehrman....ect


TBG
 
Redhat said:
Are Swamp Rat knives all "handmade" using your definition above?
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Busse has mentioned use of CNC grinders on some models, others are hand ground, but I would not call those hand made as I assume they use production methods for various aspects becaue it is simply inefficient to do otherwise. Even the so called custom knives often have blades waterjet cut, out source heat treating, get coatings, etc., all using mass production methods.

Hand made used to mean better because production methods could not get as complex or as varied or have any individual attention, but when you have someone making a product by hand and he is trying to make everyone identical to the last turning out a line of mass produced knives with no particular specific individual characteristics it is hard to argue for any benefit to the "hand making".

As for 1095, it is one of the cheapest blades steels on the market, a piece of 1095 to make a small TOP's knife is less than two dollars, even for the large blades, 1/4", 2" wide, 10" blades, the cost is about eight dollars. 1095 also has one of the simplest heat treatments of the tool steels due to the low alloy content.

Want details, check Alvin Johnson's posts on rec.knives where he goes into this in great detail as he is interested in making some tough working knives and thus has been posting about suitable steels (1095 isn't one of them).

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
As for 1095, it is one of the cheapest blades steels on the market, a piece of 1095 to make a small TOP's knife is less than two dollars, even for the large blades, 1/4", 2" wide, 10" blades, the cost is about eight dollars. 1095 also has one of the simplest heat treatments of the tool steels due to the low alloy content.
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Exactly my point, if it was made from another more 'exotic' material, would the raw materials be considerably more?

So if we say $2.00 for 1095 for a C.A.T for example, how much more would it be in 01 or M2? Maybe a couple of dollars when bought in bulk?

Was the material chosen specifically because the heat treat is easy, why complicate things?

If we look at a lot of really expensive items, its usually the work that goes into them and the attention do detail that pushed up the price.

I for one am willing to pay a little more to keep jobs in the country of my choice and keep some skills there, rather than farming out all the work just for the sake of the cost of a couple of beers. YMMV.
 
Temper said:
Exactly my point, if it was made from another more 'exotic' material, would the raw materials be considerably more?
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M2 would be a much more expensive base material and the total cost would be vastly higher for additional reasons, it has a much more demanding heat treatment and a very low machinability only 40% of 1095 and thus it would take 2.5 times as long to grind the blades assuming the same abrasives were used, which likely would not be the case. M2 would be a horrible steel for that type of knife though, it is designed for the complete opposite performance niche.

Was the material chosen specifically because the heat treat is easy, why complicate things?
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To make it better, again that is usually why you go handmade or small shop vs full production, the details. A differential spring temper on the spine would improve the product many times over making the knife much better able to take shock and flexing and a bainite heat treatement even more so. Various other inherently tougher steels could offer a higher hardness without losing toughness and thus give better strength, toughness, finer grain, etc. . Alvin is discussing these elements and possible steel selection in rec.knives currently, plus respective geometries for "tough" knives.

-Cliff
 
But 1095 is a good steel. Like, I have a custom on order from Burt Foster right now for my new field knife. $350. And 1095. It's good, and it's cheap. I really like TOPS's blade coating, too. Tough stuff.
 
Gentlemen

Here are some of my TOPS knives.
They work great as camp knives but the Cold Steel Trailmaster will outperform them all.

Cheers,

André

4TOPSogSPAS.jpg


4TOPSogSPAShandle.jpg


4TOPSogSPASback.jpg


BESTogSPAS.jpg


BESTogSPAS4.jpg
 
imo the cold steel trailmaster will outperform them because it is flat ground. i don't know who came up with the idea to put a short hollow grind on a thick spine but to each their own.
 
witchhunter said:
i don't know who came up with the idea to put a short hollow grind on a thick spine but to each their own.
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It is cost efficient, there is a strength issue, but generally you are much better off changing the stock thickness if you need that much raw strength and going with higher grinds to get the same strength, weight and better cutting ability. Hollow grinds are also problematic on large knives like that due to the way they don't support the edge, if the edge suffers failure it can lead to a blowout of the primary grind. Plus the grind inherently will focus loads across the edge making it much easier to blow them out.

-Cliff
 
Great pics Andre - confirms my suspicions of narrow grinds on thick stock. Tough - yes, good cutter probably not and your comment about the Trailmaster outperforming them is very telling.
 
500Jeff...what do you think about the Tom Brown Tracker? It's certainly an interesting design, but does it work worth a flip? Or is it basically a small axe in a sheath?
 
I own the scalpel. It's a nasty little piece. Very strong 1/4" thick 1095 - I am a big fan of TOPS.


Love that avatar Danbo!:D
 
500Jeff...what do you think about the Tom Brown Tracker? It's certainly an interesting design, but does it work worth a flip? Or is it basically a small axe in a sheath?
Click to expand...

The Tracker is OK but after a while not so great, It looks cool but the saw back is to short and the knife a bit to clumsy.
Get one and make mup your own mind if you don't like the feel of it you can sell it real quick and only loose a small amount of your "investment"
You a new one from ebay for about 225 and for that price you can also get a Cold steel Trailmaster in San Mai steel.

Cheers,

André
 
The interesting thing about the tracker is that it is weighted in the front. This allows the user to be able to spear throw it. I don't believe it's an axe/knife, though it certainly looks like one.

Anyways, I own the large Steel Ealge with a tanto point. It's really great. Virtually the weight does it's own cutting. And I've been using this during my camping trips, cutting fire wood and such, and it's still extremely sharp.

The only problem I have is with the coating. It's a 3mm thick black traction coating. The problem I have is that's it's way to rought and crud get's on the blade and it does get harder to cut the further I go into what is being cut. But, I also love the traction coating because it's black and very thick and good coating. I've used this thing as a "baseball bat" and the the traction coating is still fine (please don't start flaming me about this).

Anyways one of the better material that TOPS uses is S30V, heat treated by Paul Bos, which I believe is a steel made by CPM exclusively for cutlery. From , what I've heard about S30V it's extremely good. Rather pricey, cost more than a custom Strider knife.

I am a also a big fan of TOPS since I received my Steel Eagle. They are pretty much great knives. The 1095 is good, because it has a great edge retention and good toughness. If your about to buy a tops go for one of there smaller knives, like the Screaming Ealge or the SWAT Spike. They're all good, but some of the designs do seem just for cosmetic purposes.
 
G3 said:
I own the scalpel. It's a nasty little piece.
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

I really like TOPS for its interesting, well executed designs like the
Scalpel and Harpoon. Good steel with a great coating, and care in
manufacturing above the norm results in some excellent and unique
knives.
 
I couldn't agree more.

All of the their knives are of excellent quality.

Personally I like a big and thick knife, like my steel eagle, and TOPS carry many.
 
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