Hello everyone,
I had recently did a trade deal with Scott(sechip) and the deal went south to where in the end I was not happy with the deal and ultimately felt mislead. I responded to him immediately and let him know within minutes of receiving his end of the trade was pretty pretty much told "tough luck a deal is a deal". Now I know some of you may feel that way but I wanted to be able to tell the whole story just to get others opinions on the matter, as this is what was recommended by one of the moderators.
Scott and I agreed to trade my Jens Anso Millennium Flipper for his John W. Smith folder and Andre Van Heerden M36 flipper. Since he had more feedback then me I agreed at his request to send him my knife first and he was to send me his the day he received the Anso. Of course it goes without saying that with him receiving my knife first if he were not satisfied with my knife he is not forced to send his knives and could easily have sent mine back, however because I was the second person to receive the last part of the trade(his 2 knives) one would assume I would be extended the same courtesy within reason of course. Below is an explanation of exactly what happened in the deal and how it went south at the end when he refused to do the trade back with me even though it was within minutes of me receiving his knives and at my expense meaning I offered to cover all of his fees associated with the deal via paypal and ship him back his knives before he had to ship mine back. I also offered another solution if he were keen on keeping the Anso.
So here is the full story...
I had my Jens Anso for sale here on Blade Forums as well as eBay. Scott(sechip) contacted me both here via a PM as well as via text. He offered me a few trades to which I declined at first, then was texting me trying to work out a deal on the price. I told him the lowest price I would consider was $1400(inclusive of shipping and paypal fees) as I'd already received an offer of $1350 but after shipping and fees would be me below $1300 which is less then I wanted to go. I told him I didnt need to sell the knife and honestly would be open to a trade if a knife was presented that I liked. He then sent me a picture of his John W. Smith folder which looked interesting and was in my size but the deal didn't make sense to me, he then offers me that JWS plus an Andre Van Heerden flipper. At this point he has my attention as I am a big fan of AVH, however my concern was that it was a frame lock and I'm a liner lock guy myself. However his pictures looked very nice, and he told me he would straight trade his 2 knives for my Jens. He also sent me a low res video of the knife flipping. This deal seemed fair considering his AVH seemed to be in about the same condition as my Anso, a few small marks only visible in certain light, which is also what he stated to me. From there I tell him I think we have a deal and asked how he wanted to work it. He stated that since he had more feedback then me that I should sent him my knife first and then he would send his two out the same day. We did just that, the next morning I sent him the knife USPS priority mail on 11/12/14. I texted him pictures of the package as well as the receipt from the post office. He received the knife on Friday 11/14/14 and was happy with the knife and did exactly as promised and sent his two knives to me. I received them today on 11/17/14 and immediately after looking over the knives, namely the AVH, I could see that the knifes condition did not match the photos he had sent me. I texted him immediately and told him that I received the knives but that they weren't in what I expected, I told him I apologize but if he wouldn't mind trading back AT MY EXPENSE because even though I felt a little mislead, his definition of great condition and mine may differ. So I told him I would send back his 2 knives as well as Paypal him all his expenses of the first shipment to me and now the second back to me and he does not have to send the Anso back to me until he has his original 2 back. I thought this was a more than fair offer considering I'd just received the knives a few minutes before and he wouldn't be out anything, in fact he would be in the same place he was just 4 days before, as would I of course less all the shipping fees which I was fine incurring because I was the one asking to go back on the deal. He texted me back and said that he was happy with the deal on his end and that he was not interested in trading back and saying that I just have traders remorse. I told him if he really likes the Anso he can keep it, and I will ship his knives back and I offered him the Anso for just $1200 again because it was me going back on the deal so I felt it was only right to offer something very reasonable and fair. He said he didn't have $1200 and said "You're gonna have to chalk this one up and flip them". At this point I could tell he knew what he was doing and what his intentions were the entire time. Earlier on I just figured it was a simple misunderstanding and could be chalked up to different definitions of condition. He went on to say that he's had deals where he hasn't been happy with the outcome and that he just dealt with it. Now me personally I practice the golden rule, I treat others as I would like to be treated and if someone was unhappy with a deal and had a reasonable solutions and got back to me within a reasonable amount of time to let me know, I would certainly do it, just for the sake of doing the right thing. I'm not saying he has an obligation to do so by any means, but it wouldn't sit right to me if I was involved in a deal and the other party was unhappy for felt mislead, I just wouldn't want my name attached to something like that because for me my name is everything, and honor is what truly matters. He insisted that he'd done nothing wrong and loved the Anso and was keeping it and would not offer any kind of resolution. After all this I told him that was fine if that's how he wanted to be, but that I had no choice but to leave him the appropriate feedback on the forum. He replied saying he's sorry I feel that way but that he contacted me via eBay not Blade Forums therefore I couldn't post feedback here. However I have his PMs contacting me here before the knife was ever listed on ebay and he contacted me via cell as well which was also listed in my ad here. That should give you an idea of his intent though, he already had though of a way to get out of receiving negative feedback. I also looked up some of his posts and found the exact photos he'd sent me of the AVH posted on this forum in another thread on 6/5/14!!! I followed that picture to photo bucket and found it was uploaded the same day(6/5/14). He had texted me an almost 6 month old photo to show the condition of his knife, he could've easily texted me a current picture using his phone. Why didn't he? Well I think I know why, but I'll let you decide.
Sorry to make such a long post but I wanted to give the entire story, but intent is not to bash the guy, because he seems like a nice guy honestly and he seems to have a good reputation. Perhaps he saw a newbie and figured he could take advantage of the situation. He did have my knife first which gave him the upper hand, he could've easily turned it down and kept his knives and sent mine back, however that same courtesy was not given to me. I just come from the understanding that in a deal if both parties aren't fully satisfied in the end the deal should be redone within reason. I felt like I was reasonable, I contacted him immediately, I wasn't harsh at all, in fact I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured perhaps his lighting was just bad or that his definition of the condition differed from mine, I offered to pay all his shipping fees in advance as well. I even gave him an option to keep the knife if he wanted, I really don't know what more I could have done. He stood firm, and at the end of the day he said tough luck, it happens, deal with it.
Well I have decided to deal with it in my own way. The only way I could think of to make such a negative situation into a positive one was to auction this 2 knives off and use 100% of the proceeds to sponsor a local family and hopefully bring them some joy this holiday season, and I intend to do so this week. Therefore this thread is not really intended to get any result as I cannot force him to do right thing, and neither can any of you, I simply want closure on this issue and a moderator said posting here would be my best bet.
Thank you in advance
-Kevin
Here are the photos I was texted by Scott, as you can see you can follow the link and find that the photos were uploaded back on 6/5/14
Here are photos as I received the knife yesterday. I'm not saying its awful or anything, its just a knife that was clearly carried(he insisted he never carried it btw). I was just expecting the condition his pics showed and something comparable to my knife condition wise...
I had recently did a trade deal with Scott(sechip) and the deal went south to where in the end I was not happy with the deal and ultimately felt mislead. I responded to him immediately and let him know within minutes of receiving his end of the trade was pretty pretty much told "tough luck a deal is a deal". Now I know some of you may feel that way but I wanted to be able to tell the whole story just to get others opinions on the matter, as this is what was recommended by one of the moderators.
Scott and I agreed to trade my Jens Anso Millennium Flipper for his John W. Smith folder and Andre Van Heerden M36 flipper. Since he had more feedback then me I agreed at his request to send him my knife first and he was to send me his the day he received the Anso. Of course it goes without saying that with him receiving my knife first if he were not satisfied with my knife he is not forced to send his knives and could easily have sent mine back, however because I was the second person to receive the last part of the trade(his 2 knives) one would assume I would be extended the same courtesy within reason of course. Below is an explanation of exactly what happened in the deal and how it went south at the end when he refused to do the trade back with me even though it was within minutes of me receiving his knives and at my expense meaning I offered to cover all of his fees associated with the deal via paypal and ship him back his knives before he had to ship mine back. I also offered another solution if he were keen on keeping the Anso.
So here is the full story...
I had my Jens Anso for sale here on Blade Forums as well as eBay. Scott(sechip) contacted me both here via a PM as well as via text. He offered me a few trades to which I declined at first, then was texting me trying to work out a deal on the price. I told him the lowest price I would consider was $1400(inclusive of shipping and paypal fees) as I'd already received an offer of $1350 but after shipping and fees would be me below $1300 which is less then I wanted to go. I told him I didnt need to sell the knife and honestly would be open to a trade if a knife was presented that I liked. He then sent me a picture of his John W. Smith folder which looked interesting and was in my size but the deal didn't make sense to me, he then offers me that JWS plus an Andre Van Heerden flipper. At this point he has my attention as I am a big fan of AVH, however my concern was that it was a frame lock and I'm a liner lock guy myself. However his pictures looked very nice, and he told me he would straight trade his 2 knives for my Jens. He also sent me a low res video of the knife flipping. This deal seemed fair considering his AVH seemed to be in about the same condition as my Anso, a few small marks only visible in certain light, which is also what he stated to me. From there I tell him I think we have a deal and asked how he wanted to work it. He stated that since he had more feedback then me that I should sent him my knife first and then he would send his two out the same day. We did just that, the next morning I sent him the knife USPS priority mail on 11/12/14. I texted him pictures of the package as well as the receipt from the post office. He received the knife on Friday 11/14/14 and was happy with the knife and did exactly as promised and sent his two knives to me. I received them today on 11/17/14 and immediately after looking over the knives, namely the AVH, I could see that the knifes condition did not match the photos he had sent me. I texted him immediately and told him that I received the knives but that they weren't in what I expected, I told him I apologize but if he wouldn't mind trading back AT MY EXPENSE because even though I felt a little mislead, his definition of great condition and mine may differ. So I told him I would send back his 2 knives as well as Paypal him all his expenses of the first shipment to me and now the second back to me and he does not have to send the Anso back to me until he has his original 2 back. I thought this was a more than fair offer considering I'd just received the knives a few minutes before and he wouldn't be out anything, in fact he would be in the same place he was just 4 days before, as would I of course less all the shipping fees which I was fine incurring because I was the one asking to go back on the deal. He texted me back and said that he was happy with the deal on his end and that he was not interested in trading back and saying that I just have traders remorse. I told him if he really likes the Anso he can keep it, and I will ship his knives back and I offered him the Anso for just $1200 again because it was me going back on the deal so I felt it was only right to offer something very reasonable and fair. He said he didn't have $1200 and said "You're gonna have to chalk this one up and flip them". At this point I could tell he knew what he was doing and what his intentions were the entire time. Earlier on I just figured it was a simple misunderstanding and could be chalked up to different definitions of condition. He went on to say that he's had deals where he hasn't been happy with the outcome and that he just dealt with it. Now me personally I practice the golden rule, I treat others as I would like to be treated and if someone was unhappy with a deal and had a reasonable solutions and got back to me within a reasonable amount of time to let me know, I would certainly do it, just for the sake of doing the right thing. I'm not saying he has an obligation to do so by any means, but it wouldn't sit right to me if I was involved in a deal and the other party was unhappy for felt mislead, I just wouldn't want my name attached to something like that because for me my name is everything, and honor is what truly matters. He insisted that he'd done nothing wrong and loved the Anso and was keeping it and would not offer any kind of resolution. After all this I told him that was fine if that's how he wanted to be, but that I had no choice but to leave him the appropriate feedback on the forum. He replied saying he's sorry I feel that way but that he contacted me via eBay not Blade Forums therefore I couldn't post feedback here. However I have his PMs contacting me here before the knife was ever listed on ebay and he contacted me via cell as well which was also listed in my ad here. That should give you an idea of his intent though, he already had though of a way to get out of receiving negative feedback. I also looked up some of his posts and found the exact photos he'd sent me of the AVH posted on this forum in another thread on 6/5/14!!! I followed that picture to photo bucket and found it was uploaded the same day(6/5/14). He had texted me an almost 6 month old photo to show the condition of his knife, he could've easily texted me a current picture using his phone. Why didn't he? Well I think I know why, but I'll let you decide.
Sorry to make such a long post but I wanted to give the entire story, but intent is not to bash the guy, because he seems like a nice guy honestly and he seems to have a good reputation. Perhaps he saw a newbie and figured he could take advantage of the situation. He did have my knife first which gave him the upper hand, he could've easily turned it down and kept his knives and sent mine back, however that same courtesy was not given to me. I just come from the understanding that in a deal if both parties aren't fully satisfied in the end the deal should be redone within reason. I felt like I was reasonable, I contacted him immediately, I wasn't harsh at all, in fact I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured perhaps his lighting was just bad or that his definition of the condition differed from mine, I offered to pay all his shipping fees in advance as well. I even gave him an option to keep the knife if he wanted, I really don't know what more I could have done. He stood firm, and at the end of the day he said tough luck, it happens, deal with it.
Well I have decided to deal with it in my own way. The only way I could think of to make such a negative situation into a positive one was to auction this 2 knives off and use 100% of the proceeds to sponsor a local family and hopefully bring them some joy this holiday season, and I intend to do so this week. Therefore this thread is not really intended to get any result as I cannot force him to do right thing, and neither can any of you, I simply want closure on this issue and a moderator said posting here would be my best bet.
Thank you in advance
-Kevin
Here are the photos I was texted by Scott, as you can see you can follow the link and find that the photos were uploaded back on 6/5/14
Here are photos as I received the knife yesterday. I'm not saying its awful or anything, its just a knife that was clearly carried(he insisted he never carried it btw). I was just expecting the condition his pics showed and something comparable to my knife condition wise...
