Triad lock vs...

I EDC my Izula every now and then, legally. Texas :thumbup: (other than bans on autos)
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
I wish we could all carry 5 in. fixed blades everywhere we go without any legal issues. Half the people saying they EDC a fixed blade in many of these forum threads are probably doing it illegally or just talking out their a$$ and putting a folder in their pocket like every one else.
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I have an Izula II in my boot right now, LOL
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
I wish we could all carry 5 in. fixed blades everywhere we go without any legal issues. Half the people saying they EDC a fixed blade in many of these forum threads are probably doing it illegally or just talking out their a$$ and putting a folder in their pocket like every one else.
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I very much wish I could carry a fixed blade anywhere. If I could, that's what I would do - not 5 inches though.

I suspect that many people who carry fixed blades everyday do not live within/near a heavily populated city.
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
I wish we could all carry 5 in. fixed blades everywhere we go without any legal issues. Half the people saying they EDC a fixed blade in many of these forum threads are probably doing it illegally or just talking out their a$$ and putting a folder in their pocket like every one else.
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well if its not legal to carry a 4 or 5" fixed blade into the woods in your area im sorry to hear that. if im going somewhere where hard use might be put to a knife im not going to be carrying a freakin folder of any lock style, as a primary knife. Most of you wanna be`s talking about how hard your going to beat on your folders are really chappin my ass with your kid stories about how tough your folders are or need to be. grow the f up.
 
bada61265 said:
well if its not legal to carry a 4 or 5" fixed blade into the woods in your area im sorry to hear that. if im going somewhere where hard use might be put to a knife im not going to be carrying a freakin folder of any lock style, as a primary knife. Most of you wanna be`s talking about how hard your going to beat on your folders are really chappin my ass with your kid stories about how tough your folders are or need to be. grow the f up.
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:D Thanks man!
 
I don't know who the wanna-bes are or what you think they want to be. The reason there are safety devices is usually to protect people from unintentional danger/health risks - you want the best safety devices. If you are in an emergency - "unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resuling state that calls for immediate action" - you are not necessarily out in the woods with a sturdy fixed blade.

You shouldn't take it too personal or get emotional over the subject.
 
I "needed" a folder with a tough lock once... I was at work, so I really can't have a fixed blade. Someone got an ID card stuck in a card-holder-thing and they needed their ID card back. There was a tiny hole at the top of the card, about the size of a ball-point pen. The card was completely jammed in this thing. I opened my knife and used the tip of the knife (pushing towards the spine), with most of my body weight, to slowly ease the card out of its place. It took a while and I am sure I put more than 100 lbs of force on it. The AXIS lock held up fine, just as it should have. I would not have done that with many other styles of locks.

After that, I adjusted my mask, picked up my nun-chucks, and repelled out of the window and into the night ;)
 
If I was going into the woods, for whatever reason, I'd rather have a Rajah-2 than an Esee-4. Rajah cost less too.

bada61265, check your local pharmacy, they might have something for that chapped butt of yours.
 
so you basically put 100 lbs of force through that ballpoint-sized hole in the ID card, and the tip of your knife? that's a tough knife indeed. and even more impressive is the tougher ID card.
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
Most things labeled American made are actually American assembled with varying amounts of American parts - very tiny amount actually 100%

Anyway - talking about strength...

If you watch those Hogue EX-01 videos on youtube you notice it is really struggling before hitting 170lbs with a 30 degree+ bend and is already on the verge of collapse/slowly closing before the last "5 lbs." is put on going to 180lbs. If you compare that to the Lawman with Demko beating on it, standing on it, then hanging 235 with hardly any visible flex and collapse no where in the near future - it's a pretty big difference.

Most of the other brands and other lock types that Allen was testing in the EX-01 vids were collapsing at 90-120 lbs.

If you think about it in the context of Spydeco developing better locks for MBC folders - if you stab an object and the object is in motion immediately pulling away in the other direction - that could easily be a lot more pressure than hanging 200 lbs. on the end of the handle. The 160-240lbs. object going one way and your stabbing energy going the other way oppose in violent action and put a ton of pressure on the lock.
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[youtube]yJ1moCHqa6E[/youtube]

[youtube]MG1BJyWTDyE[/youtube]

Using the same linear inch-pound formula Allen did on the Hogue button lock (pivot to anchor length, multiplied with the hanging weight) the Hold Out II rates at 1055 in-lbs (305 lbs over approx 3.46 in) compared to the EX01's 639 in-lbs and the Para 2's circa ~688 in-lbs, or 200 lbs over 3.44 inch (<<provided I haven't gotten Spyderco's MBC rating and inch-lbs formula all screwed up). So:

CS Hold Out II = 1055 in-lbs.
Hogue EX01 = 639 in-lbs.
Para 2 = (a guesstimated) ~688 in-lbs.


Regardless of how the compression lock measures up, it's pretty damn impressive that a 4.2 ounce $55 knife is nearly twice as strong as this excellently machined and overbuilt production folder.

[youtube]6obFsRXfRi0[/youtube]

If anything it's a testament to Demko's brilliance rather than a knock on Hogue and the likes.

FlaMtnBkr said:
Wow to this whole thread. No wonder the average person isn't an engineer. Actually it wouldn't be surprising if the average person can't do their kids algebra or Trig homework.

I'm not sure how stabbing something (point in?) will result with the object going the opposite direction? And if pulling away wouldn't that decrease force? But just because an object is 160-240 lbs and you stab it, and it moves, doesn't mean anywhere near 160-240 lbs of force is put on anything in the knife. Especially since the knife won't be held rigidly.

So your S&W knife was beat on more than that Para 2? Sorry I call bull$%*#. You may have used it hard but unless you were smashing the back of the blade into a wall or hitting the blade with an axe handle the amount of forces were no where close if you were holding it in your hand. The compression lock is one of the strongest locks there is and those kind of forces will peen just about any metal. On a side note the kid in the video is an idiot. If he thinks a piece of shipping tape and an oven mitt are going to stop a razor sharp knife from severing his fingers if the weight did cause the lock to fail, he should probably be required to wear a helmet at all times. Especially when he grabs his hand with his other "oven mitt-less" hand and puts his fingers right in the path of the blade.

And I stopped the video and I sure can't tell what knife that is. Not that I would expect the back lock on the Endura to hold much at all, but what I saw proved the knife had a pivot and a handle and that's about it.
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If you have a S&W gifted to you the best use for it is some "neanderthal experimentation". I highly recommend testing some designs if you haven't done so already &#8211; if not for anything else, then because it's fun to pick things apart to see what makes them tick. I won't bother comment on the BS call-out, cause... oh well... let's not go there..............


That "idiot kid" may be a bit naive and speak with a funny accent, but he runs his own charity org, is a Strider/Hinderer/customs dealer (neptuneknives.com) and have put more expensive knives to the test than most would ever dream of. I know it's the popular thing to bash him in accordance with the protective mentality of the knife community (banging up a Sebenza or a Spydie wont make you many friends), but me personally appreciate when someone makes an effort to push the constructions to the limit and create something at least somewhat close to a benchmark since many of the makers who relies on selling you steels and designs simply wont do it as long as it's in a conflict with their own current business model.They will however not refrain from pushing their own innovations and marketing, whether it be some new steel or a... hole. ;)


And like I said &#8211; some abuse tests (spine whacking, overstrikes, hanging tests) for me isn't a way to measure perceived brick smashing strength, but a fairly decent (but not absolute) method to quantify how the knives will stand the test of time with the repeated day-to-day "abuse" involved in normal usage. I haven't tried it (yet, hehe) but I can pretty much guarantee you neither the axis or the tri-ad would deform in a similar way because of how they're designed. If linerlocks are 3rd gen, then the LAWKS would be 3.1, the framelock would be 3.2 and the compression lock 3.3... with the axis and tri-ad being 4th or next gen. There's a clear and tangible gap between the designs that shows as they wear in. How can this be so difficult to accept for some? The knife industry will and should evolve and sometimes it's Spyderco leading the pack (designs, steels, Spydiehole, clip-it), sometimes it's CRK (frame lock, pivot bushing, titanium), sometimes it's Kershaw (speedsafe), and yes, sometimes it's Cold Steel and Demko. If you truly like knives you should be able to appreciate all of it. Or should they just stop innovating because some people have determined their folders to be "good enough"? With that sort of mentality we would all still be using slip-joints.

No, people saying their lock is "strong enough" is no different from people saying their steel is "sharp enough". If you take both types into their extremes then everything, including China knock-offs made in poorly heat treated 440A, is "good enough" - everything should be of the lowest common denominator. You don't have to be an engineer to catch the illogical double standard in that type of irrational thinking...
 
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If you go back in the forums time machine and look at how often Benchmade Axis and various Spyderco heavy duty/MBC lock designs were persistently recommended and sung praises based off being the strongest and very reliable...without disdain, condescending remarks, and "who cares what is the strongest design, they are all good enough if you use the edge like you are supposed to!" - you get the gist of what the banging of heads is all about when there is threads/posts glorifying Cold Steel and the Tri-Ad lock.

People who loved, collected, become long-term fans of, etc. $100-200 folders from the popular, approved forum brands do not want to hear anything about Cold Steel being the best at this or that. It's the brand we are all supposed to hate and nobody wants to hear that $40-70 knives are stronger and more reliable than their $120 linerlock or even $300-400 framelock. Not without some bickering and going down swinging!
 
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There's only two constant things in life: You do not f**k with a pitbull's bone or a knifeknut's blade. ;)
 
OrdnanceBubbaUSMC said:
If you go back in the forums time machine and look at how often Benchmade Axis and various Spyderco heavy duty/MBC lock designs were persistently recommended and sung praises based off being the strongest and very reliable...without disdain, condescending remarks, and "who cares what is the strongest design, they are all good enough if you use the edge like you are supposed to!" - you get the gist of what the banging of heads is all about when there is threads/posts glorifying Cold Steel and the Tri-Ad lock.

People who loved, collected, become long-term fans of, etc. $100-200 folders from the popular, approved forum brands do not want to hear anything about Cold Steel being the best at this or that. It's the brand we are all supposed to hate and nobody wants to hear that $40-70 knives are stronger and more reliable than their $120 linerlock or even $300-400 framelock. Not without some bickering and going down swinging!
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Full of win.
 
swegeek said:
Para 2 = (a guesstimated) ~688 in-lbs
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Why are you assuming the Para 2 compression lock will fail at 200 inch/lbs? Thats just the minimum requirement for a Spyderco lock to achieve MBC status. You post a result for the compression lock based purely on your biased speculation with zero proof and expect people to take your post seriously?
 
kawr said:
Why are you assuming the Para 2 compression lock will fail at 200 inch/lbs? Thats just the minimum requirement for a Spyderco lock to achieve MBC status. You post a result for the compression lock based purely on your biased speculation with zero proof and expect people to take your post seriously?
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Unless they anchor the weight at the tip of the blade their measuring is iffy and confusing at best. ~688 was a good, fair approximation (though I doubt it'll outperform Hogue's button lock based on the damage from a few spine whacks), and yes, the usage of things like "guesstimation", "~", "regardless of how the compression lock measures up" and other disclaimers would indeed suggest that you shouldn't take that small out of context segment too seriously... ;)
 
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