Ultimate Fighting Busse?

[Last Visible Canary]

you are right about the fuller, for sure, i looked it up, i will admit that. Thank you Trevor for at least admiting that they were intended for fighters. Last Visible Canary, could you post some pics of what fighting knives that have good geometry to you would be? maybe a dagger, a single edge, a sword. I dont understand why you think the geometry of the aa, ak, and pbf are so bad. you dont want the blade to be so sharp it is brittle, and you do want the option of slashing and stabbing, hence the thinner profile. imo. i know the hook on the pbf's probably dont work that well, but i am sure it does in the hands of a trained fighter, it has an intended purpose, historically speaking. I would think you would not want the fighting knife to be too thin so that it wouldnt break under extreme punishment, then you would really be screwed, like kitchen knife thin?? Is that your ideal fighting knife thickness?

The gaurds that were used to catch weapons were much, much larger than the tiny little pbf blade catch. the japanese jutte was excellent at catching and even breaking swords as well as a general impact weapon, the pbf 'blade catch' just isn't big enough or long enough for that - and I wouldn't train for it even if it was. there are much safer things to do with your hands that try to catch and maneuver your opponents weapon, like cutting the weapon arm. Handling another persons edged weapon in a fight is dangerous, even for 'trained fighters'.

In the first post I have in this thread there's a series of busse knives I posted as what I consider good fighters. The boss jack is much thicker than I'd like, but after taking the edge down to 24 degree's I'm okay with where it's at. It much more of a utility blade than a fighter, but it has all the elements I look for in a fighter, even if it's a bit thicker than I'd like: secure grip, no snag points, thin edge (even if it thickens up quickly at the main grind), simple blade shape.

The sar5 mod has a busse combat stock custom shop edge on it - I was completely happy with it. It maintained the same thickness from ricasso to tip, was thick enough that it could take moderate abuse but thin enough right behind the edge that it sliced without me thinking "man this is kinda thick". When I resharpened it to 24 degree's, the edge bevel didn't get any wider, where as the boss jack's edge bevel got 4x as wide (showing how much metal I had to remove to get it there).

The thin NICK mod is actually cut down from one of the thin NICK busse kitchen knives. at .090" thick it was still plenty stiff and made for an awesome edc slicer and had all the elements I want in a fighter, including a thin spine and edge geometry.


my point is simply this: if your going to be cutting meat, you want something that is designed to cut meat. If your going to carry something for the purpose of fighting with it - have no misconceptions about what it's going to be like to actually use it. If you want to try something fancy with your knife like using a tiny blade catch: try it. Let your opponent hit you full force with gear on while your trying it, cause that's what it's gonna be like in real life (and worse).

 

[Last Visible Canary]

If you think you know knife fighting, go train with Southnarc from www.shivworks.com and I guarantee you a preconceived-notion-shattering experience that is second to none.

P'kal is one of the knife fighting systems that I have no complaints about. It's not what I normally think of when I use a knife, but it's very much a realistic perspective and task/goal oriented. Doing even very simple drills with my brother is nerve racking because he likes to fight way, way closer than I'm comfortable with. 'knife fight in a bear hug' is very unnerving.

 

[Nagol84]

Busse Knives are like an Airedale Terrier, They can do all the utillity tasks that any other knife can do, but they can "LICK" the other dog if they need too. Thus they can acomplish whatever task is at hand and still protect their owner and themselves if SHTF! (sorry for the inccorect spelling, Drunk as usual)!

 

[Last Visible Canary]

In addition you could train with a Shock-Knife and standby for your visions of knife fighting a la "The Hunted" to be shattered.

-Stan

http://www.shocknife.com/

just looked it up, and it does look pretty awesome.

 

[oge14]

well if i was going to use a busse for "self defense". it would be my pork belly skinner. it's fast, compact, very comfy in hand, and has more belly than me.

 

[rega25]

Look man, the original post was for self defense/ fighting, and I was looking at the knives designed for fighting, not combat. I know that none or almost none of the knives are ideal fighters in your opinion without modifying, but what I am saying is that guards are good for knife fighting, you keep saying try it with the hook on the pbf, but i am not going to try to stop the fighters swing with the knife on purpose, the hook is better than nothing though, I would rather take my chances with that little thing than to just have nothing there at all. if you look at historical knives, hardly any of them look like the nick, i think the nick is a santoku based design for cooking, might be wrong, but i call em like i see them, i am not totally in the dark about knife fighting, i have seen knife fighting vids before from various eastern schools, and i know it is not like the movie hunted. but fighting knives usually have guards, are narrow, and maybe have double edge sometimes. I know you will not admit that any of the knives were designed for fighting, you think they are combat only, but the original question was not "what is the best busse to modify for fighting" I can see the dssf being more utility, and even a couple of others but the ak and argonne assault?? you cannot say that those were not designed to be fighting knives, or else you are just stubborn, the argonne is made to punch holes in someones face, sure you can tenderize a pork chop with it, but it was not designed for that. The integral custom daggers from blade 09 are another pure fighter, you are not supposed to pry with it. And I left one important one out - THE GLADIUS!!!! This is your chance to admit one time that it is a fighting knife/sword. Just give in man, come on, it was a Roman battle sword with guards and a double edge.
Your move

 

[PeterPHWS]

If you see guys who can use them, the Kerambit is pretty impressive as a design which you would carry for self defense .... for combat you need something more useful generally .... the Zilla's of one type or another would be my choice .... Khukri's work very well in CQB and are great for general use too ....

 

[Jaxx]

Look man, the original post was for self defense/ fighting, and I was looking at the knives designed for fighting, not combat. I know that none or almost none of the knives are ideal fighters in your opinion without modifying, but what I am saying is that guards are good for knife fighting, you keep saying try it with the hook on the pbf, but i am not going to try to stop the fighters swing with the knife on purpose, the hook is better than nothing though, I would rather take my chances with that little thing than to just have nothing there at all. if you look at historical knives, hardly any of them look like the nick, i think the nick is a santoku based design for cooking, might be wrong, but i call em like i see them, i am not totally in the dark about knife fighting, i have seen knife fighting vids before from various eastern schools, and i know it is not like the movie hunted. but fighting knives usually have guards, are narrow, and maybe have double edge sometimes. I know you will not admit that any of the knives were designed for fighting, you think they are combat only, but the original question was not "what is the best busse to modify for fighting" I can see the dssf being more utility, and even a couple of others but the ak and argonne assault?? you cannot say that those were not designed to be fighting knives, or else you are just stubborn, the argonne is made to punch holes in someones face, sure you can tenderize a pork chop with it, but it was not designed for that. The integral custom daggers from blade 09 are another pure fighter, you are not supposed to pry with it. And I left one important one out - THE GLADIUS!!!! This is your chance to admit one time that it is a fighting knife/sword. Just give in man, come on, it was a Roman battle sword with guards and a double edge.
Your move

I haven't read every post since my last, so forgive me if someone already mentioned it. The Team Gemini might have some potential...

 

[winmagfrog]

I don't have any better photo's handy, but my go-to blade is the ST-Ripper. I understand LVC's point, but I have never found the choil as much of a bother as he seems to.
Different strokes (literally) I suppose.

 

[rega25]

I was going to bring the Gemini up because of the guards on it but I think he might say it is a " combat/ utility knife with guards, not trying to speak for him, but that's why I left it out, the daggers and gladius are indisputable to me, thx for the input, debate is stimulating

 

[grey menace]

Urban Grudge is a winner, good blade angle, narrow point, feels great in the hand.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

if you look at historical knives, hardly any of them look like the nick, i think the nick is a santoku based design for cooking,

The thin NICK I modified looked nothing like it's original form when I was done with it. I simply used it as .090" thick stock.

I know you will not admit that any of the knives were designed for fighting, you think they are combat only,

I never said that. I did say that even if jerry designed their shape and profile to be that of a fighter, the geometry is that of a combat knife (specifically for the edge and grind thickness). and there is generally a choil.

but the original question was not "what is the best busse to modify for fighting"

and so I gave the example of an unmodified boss jack.

I can see the dssf being more utility, and even a couple of others but the ak and argonne assault?? you cannot say that those were not designed to be fighting knives, or else you are just stubborn, the argonne is made to punch holes in someones face, sure you can tenderize a pork chop with it, but it was not designed for that. The integral custom daggers from blade 09 are another pure fighter, you are not supposed to pry with it. And I left one important one out - THE GLADIUS!!!! This is your chance to admit one time that it is a fighting knife/sword. Just give in man, come on, it was a Roman battle sword with guards and a double edge.
Your move

If your just looking for a knife that has the profile of a fighting knife, all of those are great. And all of them can be used for knife fighting, just as anything with an edge can. Jerry has titled several of his knives as 'fighters', and the product is apperently what he feels represents that term. However: everything jerry puts out to the public is built to withstand abuse including all those things you say they aren't designed for. Is the ak47 designed for batoning? no. But people do it, and it's geometry is designed to take it.

I can't comment on the edge thickness of the argonne assaults or the gladius, but in general busse knives have fairly 'robust' edges meant to take hard impact. If you bought a butchers knife with the same edge you would think it ridiculously over built.

Which is the best Busse for self-defense/knife fighting situation?

to which I replied with:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8560497&postcount=15

in which I specified why I choose the ones I choose:

These are based on the idea of being able to actually edc them, the kz2 would be an excellent knife in a fight (if you knew how to use it) but you'll never have it on you inside of a city.

I don't consider the gladius or the woar boar to be the best busse for 'self-defense/knife fighting situation' because they don't have a practical day to day use and are unlikely to be carried. On top of that, both of them are built with the 'combat' knife perspective, assuming the customer will beat the crap out of them. The resulting geometry is less designed to dissasemble a human body and more designed to chop wood.



I reiterate my initial post regarding what makes "the best" knife for hand to hand fighting:

'but it's the skill of the user, busse fighters are awesome!'
A skilled kali practitioner can use a branch picked up off of the ground as a formidable weapon: that doesn't make the weapon itself excellent or streamlined for the task at hand. Just because you can use a 12 gauge to kill a guy doesn't mean it's good at anything past 100 feet.

Features and geometry matter. If it hinders the task at all it shouldn't be there.

 

[Jaxx]

I don't have any better photo's handy, but my go-to blade is the ST-Ripper. I understand LVC's point, but I have never found the choil as much of a bother as he seems to.
Different strokes (literally) I suppose.

Along the lines of the STRipper, the Marco Bolo might be as effective.

 

[malago0]

Well let me explain a knife can be carried anywhere and and sometimes fighting skills don't work, T.V. makes fighting look easy because its choreographed or on UFC they fight in the same weight class, and if you need to defend yourself or your family whats wrong with hurting the attacker, he wants to hurt you

 

[Gravelface]

Knife "fighting" is for practice, great in theory, but doesn't really serve much purpose. Anyone who has actually been in a knife fight is probably handicapped to some degree due to injuries.

Combat is eliminating the threat......why strike a fool 12 times in 1.5 seconds when 1 fatal blow is all it takes.

If a knife is pulled, it is automatically life and death, why "fight" someone......eliminate them.

All the "knife fights" I have seen have been 1 sided and it is usually with a kitchen knife or box cutter. With 1 knife fight, the assailant stabbed the victim, who in turn pulled a pistol and shot the assailant in the back.

My opinion knife fighting is a sure way to end up dead.

And I have put several combating people out of commission with high quality pepper spray. Yes, they still flail about, but are no threat and much easier to subdue.

Also, unless the "fighting" knife is something you can carry everywhere, what good is it. Practice with your favorite folder, the BEST knife is the one in your hand.

 

[Nuke41]

After a few scrapes in my years in the service here’s my thoughts. A knife is to be used to fight your way to a handgun, the handgun is to fight your way to a rifle, and the rifle is to fight your way to a radio to call in a JDAM airstrike. Any more questions about killing?

 

[squishware]

Best Busse Fighter: War Boar

Non Busse: I like my Mercworx Seraphym Push Dagger

 

[Last Visible Canary]

And I have put several combating people out of commission with high quality pepper spray. Yes, they still flail about, but are no threat and much easier to subdue.

Also, unless the "fighting" knife is something you can carry everywhere, what good is it. Practice with your favorite folder, the BEST knife is the one in your hand.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

The mace comment was in regards to some questions me and my brother had, particularly about how well a completely goal driven person could be after a full blast to the face, and how likely a guy is to be able to get to you once maced. He's may end up teaching some rape defense classes, and it's information you should know first hand. I'm not going to tell a girl 'mace will save you' without first showing her what I can do once maced and how to avoid me doing it.

 

[Gravelface]

Absolutely, I agree...I would never tell someone mace...or anything for that matter will save them. Like all things, it is a tool.

There are those freaks who are immune to its effects, also if someone is hoped up on coke, crack, or meth ...it is no good.

But in general, it is a tool that will buy you a moment of time. What you do in that moment is paramount. Attack or run.

 

[Bravado]

HG55 Baby!