Unconventional/Low Visibility Shelter

L

LittleHairyApe

Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
494
I was wondering if anyone out there has Escape + Evasion training, or something similar, that they'd be willing to talk about regarding how to make shelter that is hard to see, hard for dogs to track, and difficult to to pick up on FLIR. I'm wondering how downed pilots make shelter in enemy territory, and I'm wondering how people who are "bugging in" hide from looters, zombies, etc.. Is the only option to go underground? Is that the best option in an urban setting?
 
without any real experience, i find that the best concealed shelters are made underground (difficult in the woods without a real shovel and a rootsaw) or behind some large natural obstruction...like a big pile of rocks in my neck of the woods.

debris shelters tucked away between a couple of boulders or in some semi-caves in rock structures are pretty invisible, but i guess not too hard for dogs to track.
 
From some of the gun camera videos I've seen you best defense is a good prayer life. Mac
 
siguy said:
without any real experience, i find that the best concealed shelters are made underground (difficult in the woods without a real shovel and a rootsaw) or behind some large natural obstruction...like a big pile of rocks in my neck of the woods.

debris shelters tucked away between a couple of boulders or in some semi-caves in rock structures are pretty invisible, but i guess not too hard for dogs to track.
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Rootsaw? I hadn't thought about it, but that's logical.
 
A guy I know told me that he has constructed small, hidden shelters near favored hunting/fishing spots using a couple of sheets of plywood to make an "A" frame, covered them in tar paper, then with foliage to hide them. Sounded like an inexpensive, workable concept to me.
 
I wonder how Dogs would react to hunting cover scents, or attractants like urine scents, would thet help.

I am also wondering what buisiness LittleHairyApe is in that makes him think he needs to evade dogs and search planes. :D
 
Hello guys, when I was in the airborne infantry (Central America was the playground in those days) I received jungle training, and basic survival training in conjunction with your daily field life ( felt like a four year long camping trip), and not to mention the " I volunteer for Sniper school " fiasco, the standard instructions for a "Hooch" was to make a one man lean-to with your poncho, no higher than your waist. Add some natural cover, and there you have it. What we have to remember here fellows, is that when you are in an E&E mode your choice of campsites is the total opposite of what you would normally pick while leisurely camping. Now the mosquito infested thickets provide cover from enemy observation, and allows you to be miserable, but hidden. When is time to move out all you do is untie two horizontal lines, and pull three stakes out. Roll it up, cram it in the outside pocket of your large alice pack and go. I hope this helps you out some. H-Minus
 
EmsRescueGuy said:
I wonder how Dogs would react to hunting cover scents, or attractants like urine scents, would thet help.

I am also wondering what buisiness LittleHairyApe is in that makes him think he needs to evade dogs and search planes. :D
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I saw an episode of mythbusters where urine from a dog in heat totally distracted a trained attack dog.

Leaving aside the obvious political/social changes going on in the new millenium;), I have noted that those roto rooter guys from ghost busters have a FLIR, and lots of people have trained dogs, so it's not too much of a stretch to think that zombies could have and use these tools for less than savory purposes.:barf: in a social chaos or natural disaster type of scenario. And AFAIK, I don't need to evade any planes, search or otherwise, except airliners.:) I just hate giving up my super tinker for absolutely no good reason.

And I'm an electronic tech, thanks for asking.:)
 
H-Minus said:
Hello guys, when I was in the airborne infantry (Central America was the playground in those days) I received jungle training, and basic survival training in conjunction with your daily field life ( felt like a four year long camping trip), and not to mention the " I volunteer for Sniper school " fiasco, the standard instructions for a "Hooch" was to make a one man lean-to with your poncho, no higher than your waist. Add some natural cover, and there you have it. What we have to remember here fellows, is that when you are in an E&E mode your choice of campsites is the total opposite of what you would normally pick while leisurely camping. Now the mosquito infested thickets provide cover from enemy observation, and allows you to be miserable, but hidden. When is time to move out all you do is untie two horizontal lines, and pull three stakes out. Roll it up, cram it in the outside pocket of your large alice pack and go. I hope this helps you out some. H-Minus
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That's kind of what I was wondering. One question: Did they let you use mosquito dope or was that too risky?
 
x39 said:
A guy I know told me that he has constructed small, hidden shelters near favored hunting/fishing spots using a couple of sheets of plywood to make an "A" frame, covered them in tar paper, then with foliage to hide them. Sounded like an inexpensive, workable concept to me.
Click to expand...

I assume he used full eight foot sheets, right? So he could sit comfortably or maybe stand up in the blind. I agree it sounds workable and cheap.
 
Yes buddy, insect repellent was (is?) standard issue, along with foot powder. If deployng to Central America Malaria pills combined with the gammaglobin shot in your rump was the prescribed preventive maintenance. Also, since this is a knife forum, I will like to point out that a well worn Kabar (standard USMC combat/utility knife) was the most widely used private purchase blade used by the not so well paid G.I. of the mid-eighties. To this day it remains my most favorite of all the American original design knives. Gentlemen, please remember that this is just my humble opinion. So satisfied I was with the Kabar's performance, that it is still the core of my PSK. I hope that this helps you out. H-Minus
 
Make a frame work of branches similar to a large basket or screen using cordage or dark zip ties. Be sure to darken the cut ends of the branches with a little mud if they are exposed. Insert local vegetation. Fall and winter are easy because everything is already dead. In summer a most foliage will die back and wilt in a few days and must be replenished. If you cut maple limbs in the summer they will keep their leaves for years. For animals you can cut foliage nearby. For people stumps and cut branches nearby are dead giveaways as is fresh dirt.
Be mindful of backlight on a blind. It will silhouette you in the blind despite thick cover.
If you can take advantage of fallen trees, stumps, rocks or holes it will make your work easier. One of my favorite blinds is a crossed pile of fallen trees left by loggers that was cut while the trees had leaves. It sits at the top of a draw between two hills and is the intersection of a half dozen game trails. Years later there is still a thick mass of dead leaves and limbs in a semi circle. Sitting in the middle with a tank net across the opening I am nearly invisible to game on the ground nearby unless I stand up.

I hunt on the ground a lot and usually kill sever deer from this location each year.
 
H-Minus said:
Yes buddy, insect repellent was (is?) standard issue, along with foot powder. If deployng to Central America Malaria pills combined with the gammaglobin shot in your rump was the prescribed preventive maintenance. Also, since this is a knife forum, I will like to point out that a well worn Kabar (standard USMC combat/utility knife) was the most widely used private purchase blade used by the not so well paid G.I. of the mid-eighties. To this day it remains my most favorite of all the American original design knives. Gentlemen, please remember that this is just my humble opinion. So satisfied I was with the Kabar's performance, that it is still the core of my PSK. I hope that this helps you out. H-Minus
Click to expand...

Did you ever use the insect repellant to start a fire? And yeah I liked the part where you described the hooch. That's the kind of detail I find most useful. Thanks.:thumbup:
 
riddleofsteel said:
Make a frame work of branches similar to a large basket or screen using cordage or dark zip ties. Be sure to darken the cut ends of the branches with a little mud if they are exposed. Insert local vegetation. Fall and winter are easy because everything is already dead. In summer a most foliage will die back and wilt in a few days and must be replenished. If you cut maple limbs in the summer they will keep their leaves for years. For animals you can cut foliage nearby. For people stumps and cut branches nearby are dead giveaways as is fresh dirt.
Be mindful of backlight on a blind. It will silhouette you in the blind despite thick cover.
If you can take advantage of fallen trees, stumps, rocks or holes it will make your work easier. One of my favorite blinds is a crossed pile of fallen trees left by loggers that was cut while the trees had leaves. It sits at the top of a draw between two hills and is the intersection of a half dozen game trails. Years later there is still a thick mass of dead leaves and limbs in a semi circle. Sitting in the middle with a tank net across the opening I am nearly invisible to game on the ground nearby unless I stand up.

I hunt on the ground a lot and usually kill sever deer from this location each year.
Click to expand...

Regarding the fallen trees, I'm assuming you're in and amongst the foliage, but I can't figure out what part of the trees you're throwing the tank net over. Is there a gap between the tops of the trees as they lay on the ground? Are you tossing the net over the crowns of the trees and hiding behind the net? Or are you in the net? Or what? I guess I'm dumb. Can you flesh that description out a bit? Deer are pretty wary critters, so you kind of peaked my curiosity.
 
We only started fires during the survival training. The rest of the time we had to mantain lights, and noise discipline. Like I stated earlier E&Eis nothing like civilian camping. If you are operating in an area behind the lines, a fire gives your position away. Day or night. Comfort is thrown out of the equation, and replaced by stealth, and seclution. Unlike a conventional survival situation, in which you want to be found, during an E&E scenario you DON'T want to be found until you make it back to your lines. H-Minus
 
The tops of some oaks, maples and pines where kind of throw in a crescent shaped pile. They had most of their foliage on them when they were cut. The result was a ready made blind on three sides. The is an opening on the side that faces down hill. I ran a rope between the trunks of two downed tops. I have a cargo net that has been out in the weather for years so it has no foreign scent. Once I am in the blind I drape the cargo net over the rope and I have an effective 360 degree blind. I usually sit in a folding chair with my pack beside me on the ground. I can see in any direction and all I have to watch out for is moving my head too fast. Once I get ready to shoot I have several rests I have secured to downed trees that help me steady my rifle.
 
riddleofsteel said:
The tops of some oaks, maples and pines where kind of throw in a crescent shaped pile. They had most of their foliage on them when they were cut. The result was a ready made blind on three sides. The is an opening on the side that faces down hill. I ran a rope between the trunks of two downed tops. I have a cargo net that has been out in the weather for years so it has no foreign scent. Once I am in the blind I drape the cargo net over the rope and I have an effective 360 degree blind. I usually sit in a folding chair with my pack beside me on the ground. I can see in any direction and all I have to watch out for is moving my head too fast. Once I get ready to shoot I have several rests I have secured to downed trees that help me steady my rifle.
Click to expand...

OK. I've got a picture in my mind. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
 
H-Minus said:
We only started fires during the survival training. The rest of the time we had to mantain lights, and noise discipline. Like I stated earlier E&Eis nothing like civilian camping. If you are operating in an area behind the lines, a fire gives your position away. Day or night. Comfort is thrown out of the equation, and replaced by stealth, and seclution. Unlike a conventional survival situation, in which you want to be found, during an E&E scenario you DON'T want to be found until you make it back to your lines. H-Minus
Click to expand...

So what I'm seeing is that there weren't any "tricks" to staying even slightly comfortable that didn't put you at risk, and if you were detected and that brought down horses, dogs, tracking technology, etc., all you could do was keep covered, keep moving, and pray. Is that about the size of it?
 
LittleHairyApe said:
So what I'm seeing is that there weren't any "tricks" to staying even slightly comfortable that didn't put you at risk, and if you were detected and that brought down horses, dogs, tracking technology, etc., all you could do was keep covered, keep moving, and pray. Is that about the size of it?
Click to expand...

When I was in the army there were very few tricks. One just tried to stay hidden and not freeze to death while doing so.. Norway is somewhat chilly most of the year..

Good clothes, wool inner layers, good boots and something like a bivy bag was usually the way to get some comfort. Fire is out and chopping down trees too noisy.

Long term observation hides were usually dug in below ground. The bathroom was a plastic bag:D

Sverre
 
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