Unconventional/Low Visibility Shelter

LittleHairyApe said:
So I was wondering how many people read this article and might care to comment. Myal recommended it, and I got a lot out of it.
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I only gave it a quick scan but it appears a very accurate description.

If they are using horses, dogs and/or heat seeking infrared technology, yeah, prayers are your ultimate weapon (in all seriousness)... that and keep huffing it.
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Intel helps. Nice to know where the FLIR is. Usually high ground. Or on a bird. Sensors, remote cameras and ground-based radar are other technologies employed.

Dogs are just as good or bad as their handlers. Lazy handlers have lazy dogs, and usually poorly trained dogs because it takes time and discipline to keep a dog properly trained. Many dog handlers are in poor shape or lazy. They don't want to climb those hills or crawl through those briars.

Supposedly, if you spray your feet real good with pepper spray, that will throw off the dogs a bit too... or so I've heard.
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Animal skins on the boots to fool dogs, eh?
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Neither works, unless you spray the wet pepper spray on your shoe then put the shoe in the dogs mouth or in his face. :) It just adds another smell to the bouquet of smells the dog is following.
 
I heard from the mouths of law enforcement that were there, That the skins did indeed confuse the dogs. Maybe the dogs were poorly trained, but I doubt that.
 
I had occasion to watch a tracking dog demonstration a few years ago. It was a wet, windy day. We observed the individual being tracked run a course through a field, up and down some small hills, etc. When the the dog was put onto his scent, it did not follow the exact path he had taken. Instead, it followed the general course, often deviating by several yards one way or the other according to how the target's scent had been moved by the wind. The upshot of this was that the dog relied more on a trail of scent "debris particles" rather than actual contact points such as footfalls. I would be skeptical of the efficacy of covering one's shoes with animal skins, at least with a well trained dog. Animals never cease to amaze me.
 
Brian Jones said:
You should hear Ron talk in person...he will keep you in stitches constantly. Plus, you learn a lot from him by just being around him...
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In the youtube video he makes a comment(paraphrasing), "...moving air, often called wind..." which gave me a chuckle. He likes to kind of slip in dry funny comments I've noticed. It's a style of speaking I can appreciate, that you don't really get a sense of from reading the articles he has on his site. That was just one example of his use, as I saw it, of scientific terminology to crack jokes.
 
x39 said:
I had occasion to watch a tracking dog demonstration a few years ago. It was a wet, windy day. We observed the individual being tracked run a course through a field, up and down some small hills, etc. When the the dog was put onto his scent, it did not follow the exact path he had taken. Instead, it followed the general course, often deviating by several yards one way or the other according to how the target's scent had been moved by the wind. The upshot of this was that the dog relied more on a trail of scent "debris particles" rather than actual contact points such as footfalls. I would be skeptical of the efficacy of covering one's shoes with animal skins, at least with a well trained dog. Animals never cease to amaze me.
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I believe that this woodsman/killer may have had a few tricks up his sleeve that he didn't let on. Clearly he knew dogs, and he found a technique or set of techniques to beat the dogs. Maybe he beat the dogs by defeating the handlers. All I know is that the story is a lot more interesting in real life, thanks to j williams who was there, than what the media reported. Oh yeah. Thanks to the MO police for catching this guy. They earned every penny the day they took him down, IMHO.:thumbup:
 
LittleHairyApe said:
Clearly he knew dogs, and he found a technique or set of techniques to beat the dogs. Maybe he beat the dogs by defeating the handlers. :
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It is also possible that the dog handlers/police didn't want to make public the techniques he used.
 
LittleHairyApe said:
I believe that this woodsman/killer may have had a few tricks up his sleeve that he didn't let on. Clearly he knew dogs, and he found a technique or set of techniques to beat the dogs. Maybe he beat the dogs by defeating the handlers. All I know is that the story is a lot more interesting in real life, thanks to j williams who was there, than what the media reported. Oh yeah. Thanks to the MO police for catching this guy. They earned every penny the day they took him down, IMHO.:thumbup:
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Yeah, IMO they shoulve aimed higher though!
 
j williams said:
I heard from the mouths of law enforcement that were there, That the skins did indeed confuse the dogs. Maybe the dogs were poorly trained, but I doubt that.
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I track people every day and we use most of the technologies and tactics listed here. I am not a handler but I work with them, daily. Please trust me that none of the listed things work. The scent comes from cells, and they fall from your body from various places (cuffs, open collar, from your face and hair). It is not merely a ground to ground contact thing, although there are some differences in the way different breeds of dog smell. If a dog were distracted by the smell of a skin or perhaps chases a rabbit or something, it's a poorly trained dog. BTW, there are some differences between "drug" dogs and tracking dogs. If a dog isn't used for tracking often, it's skills deteriorate.

But feel free to tell any of your friends that you suspect may be involved with smuggling or other criminal activities that it works swell! :)
 
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Hey man, Im not doubting your knowlage. The fact that he was able to evade the dogs, and us marshals along with other law enforcement services for 6 months in the woods is impressive from an E&E standpoint. Like I said im just stating what I heard from law enforcement on the scene. I have been in public service for a while and my father was in for a long time as well. The knowlage he had was not public knowlage, but like I said I thought it was interesting. I am not a tracker, nor a dog handler, so you know alot more then me on the subject. He did do this, but maybe it was something else he did to confuse the dogs. I guess no one will know untill the dogs can talk and tell us.:D

Intresting bout the cells and stuff though. What breed of dog do you work with? I find it hilarious that the missouri state water patrol uses cockerspaniels for their drug dogs. I guess they swim really well and have great noses.

BTW, I dont have any drug smuggling, criminal friends......;)
 
People get lost all the time and dogs cant find them. It depends a lot on how much time had transpired. Give someone thirty minutes head start then sic a trained hound on him , Ill take the hound and give odds.
 
Oregon firearms academy has classes geared towards this. I am waiting for the 3rd class in the series right now. Great school with a bunch of excellent instruction.


Located in Brownsville, Oregon. Check them out.
 
If your plan is to go out and make a hide then here's a couple of tips I learned:

1) Bin that folding shovel people tell you to take, it will break and the head can't shovel anything of value. Get a small shovel and cut down the shaft on it so that it is no longer than your pack. Also sharpen the edge of the shovel, it will make the digging easier.
2) A root saw is an excellent piece of kit as are secateurs (pruning shears). Quiet, compact and cause minimum disturbance when cutting your way into and under foliage.
3) Chicken wire can be carried rolled around your sleeping mat or folded up on the side of your pack. This can form a roof which foliage can easily be added to or if used in conjunction with some support it can become a form to put turf on and make a more solid shelter.

If you are trying to avoid IR detection then an underground shelter is probably your best bet. Using turfs or layers of natural foliage will give you the best screen from overhead detection. If a foot patrol or ground based system is used against you then minimize openings and if you think you are being studied then close all openings. I've practiced different hides against IR detection and it's almost impossible to beat unless you got certain IR reflective kit and a lot of time to practice.

Hope the above helps, most of it I learned from very well trained guys but that was 5 years ago now.
 
"A root saw is an excellent piece of kit as are secateurs (pruning shears)."

Amused. You are the only other person I've seen recommending pruning shears. I swear by them but I don't think they are popular here.
 
RoyalM said:
If your plan is to go out and make a hide then here's a couple of tips I learned:

1) Bin that folding shovel people tell you to take, it will break and the head can't shovel anything of value. Get a small shovel and cut down the shaft on it so that it is no longer than your pack. Also sharpen the edge of the shovel, it will make the digging easier.
2) A root saw is an excellent piece of kit as are secateurs (pruning shears). Quiet, compact and cause minimum disturbance when cutting your way into and under foliage.
3) Chicken wire can be carried rolled around your sleeping mat or folded up on the side of your pack. This can form a roof which foliage can easily be added to or if used in conjunction with some support it can become a form to put turf on and make a more solid shelter.

If you are trying to avoid IR detection then an underground shelter is probably your best bet. Using turfs or layers of natural foliage will give you the best screen from overhead detection. If a foot patrol or ground based system is used against you then minimize openings and if you think you are being studied then close all openings. I've practiced different hides against IR detection and it's almost impossible to beat unless you got certain IR reflective kit and a lot of time to practice.

Hope the above helps, most of it I learned from very well trained guys but that was 5 years ago now.
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Wow. Very nice post. You have a very compact manner of writing, in that you write volumes in a few hundred words. Thanks.
 
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royalm, thanks for that, very useful. a question about the shovel-do you think that the cold steel shovel would be worth it for this? the blade seems more like it is built for chopping than digging, but the blade is wide and it is built to be compact. i have been looking at getting one to mess around with, wondering if i should just get a proper shovel and cut it down.

baltaco, about the pruning shears-i find that for the size sticks that i would be cutting with them that i can just as easily clip them with my knife or snap them with my hands. i suppose if i were building a shelter in a bushy thing i would probably find them useful...but i just don't. clearly, your mileage may vary.
 
Siguy,
Lowes sells a smallish "Gardeners Shovel" with D handle for around 15.00. Mine has seen much service/abuse and is still going, I filed notches on one side of the blade for a crude root saw. Seal the wooden handle with rubberized undercoating or truck bed liner. The chicken wire is good deal- I have used scrim or 1/2" netting stretched between supports but does not hold form like chicken wire.

2Door
 
siguy said:
...do you think that the cold steel shovel would be worth it for this? the blade seems more like it is built for chopping than digging, but the blade is wide and it is built to be compact...
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I don't know if you'd be willing to try this, but I believe it is pretty easy to fry an egg on the blade of the cold steel shovel. So in addition to a piece of E+E gear, you could think of it as E+E+E(ggs) gear.:)
 
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