Unknown Steel Question.

D

DustinHall

Joined
Dec 31, 2008
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687
My uncle gave me a large piece of 1/4" thick steel. He says he got it from a buddy that works in a metal shop and it is TOOL STEEL. It measures 7" wide and 44" in length. That's a lot of blades if I can figure out exactly what I'm working with. I cut a small chunk off and first attempted to try and harden it in oil. That did nothing. Next I quenched in water and it got good and hard where a file would skate across. So I'm wondering if anyone could possibly tell me what I *might* be working with or what other tests I can do so I can better guess exactly what kind of tool steel it may be? Does anybody here on the forums do steel analyzing and how much does that usually cost? My best guess is maybe it's W1 seeing as it's tool steel and water hardening but, I'd like your guess too. Thanks in advance.
 
Seems that awhile back, Sam Salvati informed us that Fastenal stores can do steel analysis for around $50.

--nathan
 
Wow. A lot more than I was thinking of. I was hoping it'd be as easy as sending a small chunk in an envelope with 10 bucks. Ok then, back to the guessing game.. any ideas?
 
There may be some members who have access to analysis equipment who may be willing to help you out.

--nathan
 
Cool, if you're one of them then please speak up!

BTW, how many water hardening tool steels are there? Also is it safe to assume this is purely a water hardening tool steel or could an air hardening steel get hard when quenched in water?
 
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1095, W1, W2. Yes you can harden oil hardening or air hardening steel in water but a good risk you will break it !!
 
Just to clear up things a bit, Dustin.
The fact that it got hard to file when quenched in water just tells you that there is some carbon in the steel. It does not tell you it is a water hardening steel. Anything from 1030 up will get harder when water quenched. It would take much more controlled testing to narrow down the steel type.

A couple of the members here will analyze it for you. I will let them speak up on their own. Some scrap yards have a PMI gun that can do a partial analysis and give you a few clues.

Your memory is a bit short, Dustin. You were commenting on a thread only three weeks ago about this exact situation, and a test company, price, and the contact information was posted. I'll give the link for you to re-read it.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623363

Stacy
 
If you live near a scrap metal recycling place, many of them have a tool that can tell you what type steel it is. Probably for no fee if you'll take it to 'em.
-M
 
Most PMI guns like the ones at scrap yards can tell you almost everything, BUT not how much carbon. We have several at work, one is top of the line and it will not recognize carbon. They give a type based on the content of metal alloys. Although that would get you closer to what you have, carbon content is huge in knife steel and HT. I suggest getting it analyzed. Even if you pay $50, that is cheap to have that much KNOWN steel as apposed to that much unknown.Your time and effort to figure out about what you might have isn't worth that much IMHO. Jim
 
bladsmth said:
Just to clear up things a bit, Dustin.
The fact that it got hard to file when quenched in water just tells you that there is some carbon in the steel. It does not tell you it is a water hardening steel. Anything from 1030 up will get harder when water quenched. It would take much more controlled testing to narrow down the steel type.

A couple of the members here will analyze it for you. I will let them speak up on their own. Some scrap yards have a PMI gun that can do a partial analysis and give you a few clues.

Your memory is a bit short, Dustin. You were commenting on a thread only three weeks ago about this exact situation, and a test company, price, and the contact information was posted. I'll give the link for you to re-read it.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623363

Stacy
Click to expand...

But do they make tool steel that is 1030? It's a tool steel so I know it is high carbon AND I could tell just by digging in with a hacksaw that there's nothing mild about it.

Yes, I can have a short memory sometimes. That and the lack of a search button force me to post things like this again. Thank you though.
 
No offense, but your uncle's buddy's word that it's tool steel doesn't mean much. It might make a difference if the buddy is a machinist, or the janitor ;). I would do a spark test for a sort of a hint, and if things look promising, have it properly tested.

ib2v4u said:
Even if you pay $50, that is cheap to have that much KNOWN steel as apposed to that much unknown.
Click to expand...

Yeah. If it really is a cutlery-grade tool steel, you have way more than $50 worth. Then you will be able to decide if you want forge or stock-remove it, find out exactly how to HT it, etc etc and can make a whole bunch of knives that you'll have a lot of confidence in. If it's not a cutlery grade, you still have enough to make about a million steel guards etc :D

A lot of potential customers, especialy around here, are fairly well informed. They're going to want to know what it is, too, and "tool steel" isn't going to be a good enough answer. For instance, some guys love A2 but won't touch D2, or vise versa.
 
James_Terrio said:
No offense, but your uncle's buddy's word that it's tool steel doesn't mean much. It might make a difference if the buddy is a machinist, or the janitor ;). I would do a spark test for a sort of a hint, and if things look promising, have it properly tested.



Yeah. If it really is a cutlery-grade tool steel, you have way more than $50 worth. Then you will be able to decide if you want forge or stock-remove it, find out exactly how to HT it, etc etc and can make a whole bunch of knives that you'll have a lot of confidence in. If it's not a cutlery grade, you still have enough to make about a million steel guards etc :D

A lot of potential customers, especialy around here, are fairly well informed. They're going to want to know what it is, too, and "tool steel" isn't going to be a good enough answer. For instance, some guys love A2 but won't touch D2, or vise versa.
Click to expand...

Ok, well his friend isn't the janitor, lol. When I said he works in a metal shop I meant he is a metal machinest. I'll see what I can gather from the spark test and hopefully find a good deal on getting it analyzed. Thanks for the link, James.
 
For what it's worth, properly annealed tool steel won't be easy to tell from annealed 1030 by digging on it with a hack saw. Since it's a tool steel, I think you'll be able to get a good guess from one of the scrap yard guns, you don't need to know the carbon content unless it's got a nearly identical composition to another common tool steel.
 
DustinHall said:
Thanks for the link, James.
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You're welcome! Since the fellow's a machinist, try to get his number and ask him yourself. He may know exactly what it is and just didn't mention it to your uncle. Might save you a few bucks, and making friends with a machinist couldn't be a bad thing.
 
AcridSaint said:
For what it's worth, properly annealed tool steel won't be easy to tell from annealed 1030 by digging on it with a hack saw. Since it's a tool steel, I think you'll be able to get a good guess from one of the scrap yard guns, you don't need to know the carbon content unless it's got a nearly identical composition to another common tool steel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is true. Well, I did the spark test and it looks to be high carbon... branches a lot. I will have to do more HT testing and then make a knife out of it and test it. Would be nice to know exactly what kind of tool steel it is though.
 
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Ok so I did a little more testing today. Repeated quench testing.. air, oil, water, brine... brine and water get it hard, air and oil did nothing. Spark test showed the steel to be high carbon. Directly after quenching in water, I broke the piece and the grain structure is AMAZING. Very silky smooth. I test hardened and broke a piece of O1 and the grain of the unknown tool steel was even better than that. So I know that the steel I have will likely make a good blade, I just wish I had a name for it...
 
mete said:
1095, W1, W2. Yes you can harden oil hardening or air hardening steel in water but a good risk you will break it !!
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Alright, well since it didn't harden in oil or air, it must strictly be a water hardening steel, right? Are 1095, W1, and W2 the only water hardening tool steels?
 
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