Unknown Steel Question.

Results are back:
0.324 C,.758 Mn, low traces of just about everything.
Answer - 1030/1035 carbon steel, or as most call it - construction grade mild steel.
Useless for blades.

Stacy
 
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The cost of the analysis was worth the ability to make this post:

Many folks say, "Prove it!" when some of us suggest that all found/donated/unknown steels aren't necessarily a good deal. Add to that the fact that sometimes people assume that a steel is good because someone else says it is. Well, here is the proof that in this case the facts were totally wrong.

Dustin ( not picking on you, just using your steel as an example) was positive he had a good steel. He suspected it as being W-1. He was sure he read all his self done shop tests as indicating that it was good steel. He had a person tell him it was tool steel. He spark tested it and was positive it showed high carbon. The grain was amazing. He was sure it would likely make a good blade.......

The actual steel is a low carbon mild steel. 1030-1035.

What have we learned from this????

Any steel with more than 20 points of carbon (1020) will spark. The ability to read that spark is in the understanding of the metallurgy of carbon steels. Annealed steel and hardened steel will spark very differently.

Just because someone says something is tool steel doesn't make it so. The person could be well meaning, or totally unknowledgeable, but the point is that the only way to know is to purchase it from a supplier (with analysis) ,or have it tested.

Any steel above .30 carbon will harden to some degree in water. It does not mean it will be a good blade steel, or that it is 1095 or W-1. Pearlite can skate a file.

Reading shop tests is a result of experience. I highly encourage new smiths to spark test and quench test their steels. If they do this with known steels they will slowly learn what the results tell them. Looking at a book, or reading a post on the internet won't tell them much at all. My favorite statement is, " It broke cleanly, telling me that it was high carbon." Amazing grain is only relative to knowing what you are seeing.

Found steel can be a great boon or a total boondoggle, the telling is in the analysis.

Spending from $25 to $50 bucks to test a steel can save you many hours of wasted time and a lot of heartache.

I am not a steel snob. I use plenty of recycled steel. The difference is that I have the knowledge of exactly what the steel is. I use wrought iron from an ancient grain elevator.....and I have a copy of the analysis ( free from the seller). I have twenty harrow rakes....and the analysis was 1080 ( paid by me). I also have ten big saw blades that lots of people say are great for making knives from. The analysis was that they are ,.35% carbon steel with lots of chromium and molybdenum( best $50 I ever spent). The result is that for $50 bucks, I discovered that I have some great steel, and for another $50 bucks I didn't waste a lot of time, propane, and my reputation on some junk that almost everyone says is "good steel".

Read all this thread, from the first post to the last, and take some time to let it sink in. With all due respect to those who have made many good knives ( maybe) from found steel...."If you don't know what you are using , how can you know what you are doing?"

Stacy

Dustin,
All is not lost. That steel will make great structural parts for grinders, tools jigs , and welding table legs. You can make mild steel guards and sword fittings from it,too. Free is always good. You just have to know what use it is good for.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
What have we learned from this????
Click to expand...

Among other things, I've learned:

A) I will continue to use known steel from reputable sources.

B) If I get my hands on a big chunk of unknown steel, it will be worth my time/money to get it properly analyzed.
 
Stacy, thanks again for doing this. I feel a little embarrased that I thought it might be worth something and it turns out to only be 1035. I hope ya aint too mad. :o You did save me a lot of grief though if I was to try and make knives out of it and I sure appreciate it. I must have hardened a different piece of steel by accident or something when I was testing. I wouldn't have had you test it had I thought it could be mild steel. Lesson learned. I think I am going to stick to known steels from now on.
 
Dustin,
I am glad you had it tested. It will make a lasting impression, hopefully. There is no need to be embarrassed, you did the proper thing, and asked about the steel....then had it tested. It also allowed me to emphasize the value of proper testing and the uncertainty of unknown steel.

The water quench test won't tell you if it is 1035, 5160, or 1095. All that will tell you is if it has more than 20-30 points of carbon. Likewise, spark tests are not a dead giveaway.
The term tool steel is used by many to indicate any steel of a controlled alloying and smelted in an electric oven. To others it merely means precision size or surface finish. It does not always indicate that it is usable as a blade steel.
Interestingly, I was re-reading an old metallurgy book the other night and the term "tool steel" was described as "having a broad range of meaning."

Glad I could help out.
Stacy
 
Stacy, well put. I have a piece of steel a knifemaker friend gave me. I asked him which series of steel it was and his answer was "I can't remember and forgot where it came from". I now have a use for it, a brace for a motor mount on my power hammer. Thanks Stacey.

Dustin, Stacey saved you alot of grief. I recommend you buy him around of his favorite, If and when your paths cross!
 
Stacy i have some saw blades do you have any. HE HE HE I really have some saw blades but i use the steel for patterns but it dose get very hard i have one that is HSS and that is super hard. Thanks Stacy i think that was a good lesson.
 
Dustin, If I'm down on the Gulf Coast, I'll call you.

jrhart -
HSS is alloyed to retain its hardness at high temperatures. That is not a situation most knives encounter. The trade off in HSS is brittleness. That is a problem with knife blades. While there are a few HSS that will make good blades, their alloying and carbon content ( not always suitable either) can make many other HSS steels a bad choice for a knife.

One problem with the term HARD is that it means different things. Pearlite can skate a file....so is it harder than a file??? NO!!
A forging hammer and the anvil are both HARD, but not the same hardness as a finished blade. Glass is HARD, and my shwang gets hard ( OK, probably more info than some need), but they are not the same kind of HARD that we are talking about in knives.
I think you can see where this is going. Saying that something is/gets hard doesn't make it good for knives.
For newer smiths the simpler the better. Low alloy steel with carbon content between .70% and .85% will make as good a blade as anyone could want. The range of steel in the higher alloy types can be mind boggling,and confusing. The basic ground or forged blade from 1070-1084 steel will always be the best choice to learn on. I try to avoid the word best as it will usually cause an argument, but in this case it is the right word.
Stacy
 
Heh heh. Stacy said "shwang". heh heh.
 
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