Update on 7" knife test concerning MAD DOG.

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The $900 was for a Tusk. The knife I was cost the guy $335 or so.

You keep saying drop the Chalupa. Is that a new Mad Dog knife? You want me to perform a drop test for tip strength on this new Chalupa model?

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
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Just in case your intrested the Fighting Knives review of the ATAK by Greg Walker appears on page 60 of the November 1994 issue under the title "Seal Tales".
 
Like someone posted earlier, I will vote with my wallet. I think I am going to buy a nice Chris Reeve Sable.


--Mike L.


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Real men ride Moto Guzzis!
 
Mike,

Yes, I do have the article. It focuses on the March 1994 decision to re-open knife selection for several of the seal teams, and the results of that selection process.

In part it reads:

"...(T)he ATAK was a superb effort. FK's own test - which were shared in Soldier of Fortunes 'Battle Blades' column when chaired by myself - showed it to perform wonderfully as a field knife in a special operations environment. Problems soon surfaced, however, when McClung attempted to take the knife into productionas a 'one horse operation'. Despite bringing custom-maker Alan Blade on board to assist in grinding and manufacture, McClung could not produce the amount of knives required per delivery by the West Coast teams."

(it goes on to say)

Parallel to the logistic problems that the ATAK was suffering in the field, several of the knives had seen handle failures and there was a rusting problem despite the blade being 'double hard-chromed, then coated with a non-reflective Kalgard skin... The reason behind the rusting problem was traced to chemical corrosives in sea water working their way past the Kalgard coating and underneath the double hard-chrome plating at the knife's cutting edge..."
 
OK, the issue of the photos has been addressed. I can accept the explanation.
However, the impression was given that the testing was done on one date. I'm not going to nitpick every word written, but that is the impression I believe most people had.
I personally believe the test should have been conducted by someone other than Mike or Spark. With all the history between the 2 forums, I think it was naive to think that biase would not be questioned. I've got no bone to pick and I don't need another lecture on anyone's honesty, but let's face facts; MadDog knives are promoted on the other forum, there has been bad blood between Mike, Spark and Earl. Does this mean that Mike went into this test with ulterior motives?
No, but the question of biase was bound to come up. Mike, knowing this should have prompted you to let someone else to the testing. There are members/moderators who are well thought of on both forums. I would have liked to see Joe Talmadge do the testing,he has a test forum on both sites.

All I'm saying is that it comes down to impressions made.
Mike has made no secret for quite some time about how impressed he is by the Busse knives, rightfully so.
Mike and Spark have made it clear that they don't care for Kevin's attitude, understandable.
All things considered, the test should have been done by someone else.
Also I believe the knives should be sharpened.
I once bought 4 CS Trailmasters at one time. Three of them were for gifts, one was mine.
All but one were razor sharp, this is back when they had the rolled edge.
The dull one I kept because I knew I could sharpen it later. I wanted my buddies to start out with sharp blades.
My point is, this knife was butter dull, would it be the best performer in it's condition? Hell no!
This was simply a QC problem and not representative of the entire line. In fact, dozens of CS purchases later, I have not gotten another dull one.
I have had the same thing happen in other brands. It should not happen but it does.
The knives should all start as equally tuned as possible to give optimum performance.
I hope some of these points will be considered in any future testing.
Tenbeers
 
Tenbeers, regarding having someone else test the knives, etc.

We had an open invitation for people to come down and witness the tests. No one came. Not our fault. About sending the knives to someone else for testing because of our "bias", we'll, we're really good friends with Will Fennell and yet we really ripped into his knife. Furthermore, we had the Digital Camera, 2x4's, cardboard, and rope in house, something I doubt anyone else here does, so logistically it makes a lot more sense for us to perform the tests.

But, again, if there are any problems with a perceived "bias", we're more than happy to repeat the tests again this month when Nam Viet Vo comes into Florida. Is he biased as well?

Heck, we even emphasized the positives of Mad Dog's knife, yet we're still considered biased? I guess next time we're going to have to consider the blade chipping as a feature instead of a flaw, huh? It sure seems that way from some of the reactions here.

Regarding sharpening the knife, maybe as a secondary test, however I strongly feel that a knife should be judge on it's factory edge. That's part of how a knife is built, and I'll be willing to bet that 99% of the people out there don't sharpen their knives as soon as they come out of the box.

Sharpening the knives ourselves also opens the bias door very very wide, because who's to say that we didn't do a better job on one knife than another? Talk about invalidating results... no, leaving the factory edge is a much better choice.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Tenbeers,

Mad Dog did not come in last place. Are all the Mad Dog fanatics not going to be satified until Mad Dog wins? OK Give me a few minutes and I will go rebuild the HTML pages and make Mad Dog the winner!

Is that what will stop this?

Folks he lost... So what... Get over it...
I even admited the test concentrated on the edge holding of the knives and chopping.

So DUH who did you think would win?
My money was on the Busse and Cold Steel. I will admit I thought the Cold Steel would edge the Busse out on more tests than it did just because it was heavier.

So now I can never test a Busse for one reason or a Mad Dog for another? Man I am glad Lynn Thompson is not in here. Maybe I should give up tests?

NOT!

Should Cliff Stamp stop testing? NOT

And what I find even more amusing is that after all of this controversy about my "biased" testing 3 makers now want to send me knives for testing!

Darryl Ralph, Matt Lamey and Rob Simonich!

Am I missing something here?

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Hopefully this post won't get lost in the crowd...

I posted a while ago on the thread where the Busse and MadDog tangs were first shown together. I asked that Mike knock the tang free of the remaining piece of handle on both the Busse and MadDog knives and report on how easy or hard it was to do. I think that this will give another datapoint to the discussion of how securely the tang is fastened in the handle.

I never heard any response. Is this an unreasonable request?

[This message has been edited by Joel Stave (edited 05 November 1999).]
 
Spark, reread my post! I did not say that you or Mike were biased. I stated that because of the history between the 2 forums, the question of biase was bound to come up.
Also, it is not a question of who watches the tests or materials at hand, it is about having someone who has no dogs in past fights doing the testing.
I'd be willing to bet that sufficient materials for testing could have been found.
I don't know if Joe would have even been interested. I do know that he is well thought of on both sites. His results may have been the same, but he doesn't have the past history baggage like you or Mike do.
Personally, even if Joe didn't post any photos with the review, I think the results would be trusted.
The best example I can think of to clarify my point is this; I respect Cliff Stamp, even though sometimes I think he tests to the extreme. Cliff, based on past tests has plenty of test materials, has a proven track record for testing in an unbiased way in regard to individual knives. But, because of the TUSK episode would be the wrong guy to test any MadDogs. Not because he would cheat or be biased, but because of PERCEPTION and past history.
I do not think Cliff is biased, but some would.
Let's face facts this wasn't just a random test. This test has been hyped for months by Mike and others. Considering the "event" status of these tests, ALL of the factors come into play.

I'll have to agree to disagree on the sharpening issue.

AGAIN, I AM NOT QUESTIONING MIKE OR SPARK'S HONESTY OR INTEGRITY!!!!!!!!!
I am stating that it was going to be an issue and knowing this should have been incentive to do the tests differently. IMHO!

Mike, having concerns about the test doesn't make me a MadDog fanatic.
I give a f&$% less about who "wins"! In fact the sharpening issue is more important to me.

Test all you want, but don't act shocked if biase is questioned with regard to some knives. That does not mean that it is right, just that it is going to happen.

Ten


[This message has been edited by Tenbeers (edited 05 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Tenbeers (edited 05 November 1999).]
 
Mike Turber, you were biased in the test. You had a Sprite prior to testing the Busse. Therefore, I propose that we use Budweiser as a standard thirst quencher and every tester has to drink one every twenty minutes for the test to be consistent.

 
Nam, every time I introduce Budweiser into my knife testing I always end up bleeding! Heh!
I can hear 'em now, " Come on big man, show us some of them knife tricks!" "Oops!", "Better wait 'til you're sober!" " Anyone got a paper towel?"
Ten
 
OK New evidence changes everything and this thread is entirely too long and a major bandwidth hog so I am locking it down.

Here is the new thread. www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000815.html

I am not locking it down for any other reason so feel free to start another thread if your question was not answered to your satifaction.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
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