Update on 7" knife test concerning MAD DOG.

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Mike; I just noticed something. In the pics you have posted of the ATAK you used in the tests, the taper at the choil area appears to be of the 'vertical' type. This makes it very likely a first gen. knife. Is the chrome matte or shiny? Could you send me some pics of the entire knife, with closeups of the markings on the knife? The first gen. ATAKs were often marked, 'MAD DOG/SEAL ATAK', and the second gens were just marked,
'Mad Dog'.

I will do the same for you with my ATAK2's.

As to how you got a really old ATAK from a dealer is a mystery. Possibly the ATAK doesn't sell as well as the ATAK2, and this knife had been shuffled from dealer to dealer? I don't know. What I do know is that all the Mad Dog knives had the change in the choil taper about 1997. Yours being (I think) the old, first gen., type, would put its' date of manufacture sometime before that. Curiouser and curiouser... Walt
 
Walt, that was highly interesting and nobody will fault you for it.

I'm interested in the follow-up RC testing from the University now. That combined with X-Ray data will tell the tale.

Namviet Vo's offer for a re-test does NOT have to mean destroying the knife! Not if we can X-Ray it harmlessly; the tests Mike Turber did in this last round do NOT constitute abuse by any stretch.

Pleconin, that was the thread all right. Same pic, and although in thumbnail it clearly shows the same pattern of dings and discolorations. So the question becomes "when was the test done"? The grip was apart as of Sept. 27th at 2:33pm Florida time.

No flames or distrust here, just looking for the truth.

Jim March
 
crazy stuff. The two photos of the tang posted on different dates are kind of wierd, and no one is talking about it for some reason.
Secondly I was surprised to see that tang on a 300 dollar knife. A few months ago I cut open my 17 dollar buck mentor knife to see what the tang was like, and it had a better design than either Busse or MD in my opinion. It was narrowest at the index finger groove, and widest at the base of the palm--kind of like a slice of pizza. It would have stayed in the rubber handle forever if I hadn't been so eager to destroy it. That isn't even a full tang on the MD. If there was anything I would have lied about it would have been the tang shape, since that is what scared me the most. It would still be nice to have one though...
 
Generallobster: I still haven't seen a credible, documented
report of an MD tang seperating from the grip unless cut off.

Kevin does his tang that way to adjust the balance of the knife;
Japanese sword tangs are somewhat similar for the same reason. Kevin's
advantage over the
Japanese is that his grip material (whatever it is) is a whole lot
stronger than wood.

There is a whole lot of talk going on about areas that have NOT
failed or problems that are purely theoretical at worst, hearsay at best.

Jim
 
Although Mike's integrity may be solid, there will always be the sore spot regarding the fact that he stocks and sells Bussees but not Mad Dogs. Even if he's done nothing wrong, someone somewhere will cry foul. My recommendation is that when you set up the next test (and I know there will be another one), once the tests are set up, have a 3rd party individual do it.

$.02
 
good point about balance adjustment. I like the idea of a well balanced knife, even though I would rather have a wedged tang over perfect balance.
 
[expletive deleted]

No one should have to <STRONG>subsidize</STRONG> Mad Dog by providing another knife about which he will make more excuses!!!

Again, Mad Dog should provide a <EM>voucher</EM>, thereby effectively paying for a knife chosen at random from amongst his production.

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It's always Dark. Light only hides the Darkness.

 
SB: Mike is OUT of the Busse business except for a small number of BF special
pieces.

To Mike's credit, Will Fennel is a close personal friend of his yet he
panned the Camillus entry rather badly.

Something else: I've personally seen Allan Blade flame the living hell out
of Mad Dog on a completely non-knife-related issue. OK? Sorry, that's the truth.

(I'm mainly referring to the Ground Zero thread where Kevin talked about a
defensive shooting of a LARGE violent rotweiler. Regardless of whether it happened
or not, the incident as described was a
proper use of gunfire rather than a
cowardly act as Allan insisted.)

So you can't view him as unbiased. I'm not saying he's lying on this thread, I'm
just saying he's proven to have major bias.

Jim
 
WOW you guys are great detectives! I just got back from Team Trivia so give me a few and I will address the nation about the dates of the pics. No real mystery there as the tests were done over 2 weekends in two different months. I will look for the posts but looking at my calander and based on when I had my surgery and knowing I did part of the tests on the Saturday and Sunday before my surgery I beleive the tests to be on the weekend of the 25th and 26th. If memory serves the weather was sucky that weekend so I could only do the tests I did indoors and I only had 4 of the knives at that point. I then did the outdoor tests on a much better day but the Mad Dog, Busse had already been completely tested (As I could not stand waiting!) and I did partial tests on the Cold Steel and Falkniven.

Be back in a few as I look for those posts in the old forum.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Oh ya here is a close up of the Mad Dog. www.bladeforums.com/tests/atak-shave-500.jpg

And for the record I did the cardboard test after the handle was cut off. I also did a board test where you pound the knife into the board and twist it out. The handle was off then too. I did not post those test results as all knives past with damn near no difference so the that test would not do any good.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Oh ya again
smile.gif


Yes Walt your right as you can see in the pic above this is an old ATAK according to the markings you described.

And hell yes send me that knife!

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
OK Here is the first post where I announced which knives we will have for testing.
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004652.html

Here is where I announce the test will be held at 12 Noon on Sunday the 26th.
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004889.html

I was also looking for people to show up. No one called and the weather sucked that weekend so I went in on Saturday and did the Observation part of the test. Basically I started a note pad and surfed the net looking for knife specs and such. This is when I discovered the G-10 or G-11 handle material as none of the Mad Dog dealer sites said what the Handle was. So I researched the specs and they all pointed to G-10 or G-11. So instead of releasing the SECRET then I just said composite. That was nice of me huh?

So I played with the knives I had at that point all day while doing other stuff. I checked their edges. Their packaging. I was wearing them in their sheaths, seeing how fast (I mean slow) I was drawing them out of their sheaths and stuff like that. Nothing that would effect the edge. The Florida State game was on that night so I went home to watch the game. I brought all the knives with me and played with them some more while watching the game. The "Crimi" Noles won
smile.gif


Sunday I went in and was hoping for good weather. It was not going to happen. And there they sat. All of those knives just wanting to be tested and you guys wanting some test results. So I figured the three knives you all wanted to know most about was the Busse, Cold Steel and Mad Dog and I figured I would go ahead and do some preliminary testing and throw you all a bone
smile.gif



I grabbed the Mad Dog and chopped away at some spruce. It did OK but maybe I am a weakling or something but it was not getting anywhere fast. I had chopped with a Cold Steel knife before and remembered it was slinging chips everywhere! So I stopped after about 45 chops or so. I went back inside and got a Sprite and came back out after about 15 minutes of rest. I then picked up the Busse and went to town chopping the 2x4. Much better, and I could tell this immediately. I sliced through that 2x4 in no time. That was fun!

No knock against Mad Dog as it is not reported to be a chopper. It is one hell of a fighter and when you hold it you will know why. It just feels right. When you hold the Busse you just want to chop the hell out of something. Not sure why I am repeating this as I said the same thing in the test. I then picked up the Cold Steel after another rest. I did not like the handle as much as the Busse or Mad Dog but it was heavier and chopped through the board like crazy. It was fun too, but the Cold Steel's handle caused blistering. After this the only knife left was the Falkniven that I had ready to go for testing. I did not want to test it then as it would not be fair with the condition of my hand. I did pick the Mad Dog back up and chopped on the remains of it's board and got it 3/4's of the way through before my blisters started popping. The Jaguars were getting ready to play the Tennessee Titans so I went home to watch the game. The worst part of the whole day was the Jaguars lost
frown.gif


So why all the BS here. I just reread my review and am I missing something? The Mad Dog did not win. So what! It shouldn't have. The test was scewed in favor of a chopper with a beefy blade. Give me some test that will test a true fighter and I bet the Mad Dog will do better. The only reason why the Mad Dog did not do better was the edge chipped. Heck folks do you need every knife maker in the world to tell you O1 at 62-63 RC is too hard? Heck I am no knife maker folks and I can figure that out and my test proved it. Geez.

Anyway this is all fun and I hope you all are enjoying this. There will be many more tests and some knives will get slammed big time. You don't see Camillus in here freakin out! You don't see some 80 year old WWII vet saying that the Ka-Bar should of won and how I should show which knife will pry open old style Sea Rations better!

So why did i post this thread in the first place? I could of keep all this info secret and never tell a soul. I opened myself to speculation, not Mad Dog. He could of made a post on his forum but he chose to email a member of both forums. After back and forth emails the member asked if he could share the info with me. I thought about it and figured that if I keep the info secret how would I feel? And better yet, what would happen if 3 months from now Mad Dog released the info and said I knew it for 3 months? You guys would ask me why I kept the info from you. Nope not my style. I may be a bit rough around the edges but I tell it like it is and have done so since day one. I am not changing. I have toned down a bit. Heck many of you must of noticed that based on my Benchmade days and the Josh Burbank fun.

So have fun and let's keep the discussion to Mad Dog knives. I have a ton of info on Mad Dog now and will only post relevant info that shows how his knives perform.


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Mike, one last comment:

Drop the Chalupa!

I said, DROP THE CHALUPA!!!

biggrin.gif


Jim the Weird
 
so will the debates be as enticing after the
next test results roll in?
(with no mad dog?)
how much will that on line mag cost us?
smile.gif


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-matt

"you see that mountain over there? near as i can figure, that's where we are!"
 
Mike,

However this end up I just want to thank you for allowing us to participate in the review and discussion of your test results. By far your test and the followup discussions far exceed anything that I have come across in any publication during the last 20 years. I don't think many of the knife reviews I usually come across would hold up under the level of scrutiny we have applied here.

Congratulations, Please keep up the good work.

 
Ok; I just read Mrs. Dog's account of what may have occurred. So now it is possible that I may in fact have a shop knife, which somehow made it into Mad Dog's channel of distribution. The actual owner of the knife, now would like to know if this knife is covered under Mad Dog's warranty. It is obviously no fault of the customer that this knife somehow missed multiple steps in Mad Dog's QC program. So, maybe I should send the knife directly to Mad Dog, and he can replace it with a brand new ATAK; which I will test again, and send it back to the original customer.

Of course Cliff Stamp is still out a $900 knife so maybe it would be best to use a neutral third party to handle the transfer. Not that I don't trust Mad Dog
wink.gif


Mrs. Dog also states that they sometimes turn defective knives into shop knives. Yet they do not mark these in any way to identify them as defective??????

She also states
There is a plethora of information about the characteristics and performance of our knives. This is well documented in the volumes of magazine articles, military evaluations, books, and user testimonials.

The only magazine article I have ever heard of, was a "Fighting Knives" article, and that was not too favorable from what I have been told. Also, the only official military evaluations I have been told about, show the Mad Dog's failing. So, if there are in fact favorable magazine articles and/or military evaluations, would someone please post them, or at least where to find them?

Mrs. Dog, if you read this, would you please fax this plethora of information to: 904-739-7744. Or anyone else who has this information.

I am trying to be fair about this whole issue, but it is increasingly difficult to be objective while at the same time being labeled a "liar"; "amatuer scientist".

He also states in his email, which I have not posted, that many people are out to discredit him. I think he is misunderstanding what is actually occuring. Most of those people he mentioned, are merely pointing out the BS, and identifying it, so others don't step in it.

Enough said for now. Good night!

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
$900?!!!
NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS?!!!
My Dad would say "What did you get with it?"
Does it make coffee in the morning?
I don't mean to be rude, but that is alot of bleeping money...

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Can it core a apple?
 
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