Urban Survival: Do's, Don'ts, & Questions

koyotes last post sums it up for me. i have been houseless but never really considered myself homeless. luckily i was in hawaii and it didnt last long....i think keeping a Positive Mental Attitude is #1 (like in most of life)
 
I don't know how many Sikh temples there are in the US but there are loads over here.

Sikh people are a generally well respected minority group, especially in the north. Not least in part to them feeding the miners during the strikes of the 1980's.

Every day at a Sikh temples they serve free vegetarian food to anybody.
 
Great thread, I must add rather progressive for this place (Edit - except for Mannlicher - who is clearly a self-righteous prig with no compassion - Karma buddy, karma).
and you clearly have never been negatively impacted by an interface with one of the noble homeless that you champion.
Lucky that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. :D
 
and you clearly have never been negatively impacted by an interface with one of the noble homeless that you champion.
Lucky that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. :D

It sounds also like you have never been on the receiving end of the negative treatment heaped upon the homeless (and those who appear homeless) by the Noble Class. Try it some time and see what it is like on that really stinky end of that particular stick.

No matter how invested and entrenched we are in the privileged "nobility class", we are only one or two personal disasters (or one more broad-spread one) away from being (or appearing to be) among the homeless ourselves. I don't think anyone here is "championing" being homeless, but rather offering tips on how to interact with them in a positive way, and learn how, should we ever be in that position, to avoid fitting the negative stereotype that we all have, usually based upon appearance and behavior.

Learning and thinking about tactics to survive and possibly even thrive in such a situation is, IMHO, a good idea. I' for one, have often followed some of the advice already given. Such as giving the guy at the intersection a Happy Meal instead of beer money. Or the chance to work for the day cleaning up a jobsite instead of handing them my own hard earned cash.
 
It sounds also like you have never been on the receiving end of the negative treatment heaped upon the homeless (and those who appear homeless) by the Noble Class. Try it some time and see what it is like on that really stinky end of that particular stick.

No matter how invested and entrenched we are in the privileged "nobility class", we are only one or two personal disasters (or one more broad-spread one) away from being (or appearing to be) among the homeless ourselves. I don't think anyone here is "championing" being homeless, but rather offering tips on how to interact with them in a positive way, and learn how, should we ever be in that position, to avoid fitting the negative stereotype that we all have, usually based upon appearance and behavior.

Learning and thinking about tactics to survive and possibly even thrive in such a situation is, IMHO, a good idea. I' for one, have often followed some of the advice already given. Such as giving the guy at the intersection a Happy Meal instead of beer money. Or the chance to work for the day cleaning up a jobsite instead of handing them my own hard earned cash.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I recall reading someplace that the average American is something like 6 weeks out of bankruptcy if he looses his job. In a bad economy, see how fast your world can fall apart if your company decides to 'downsize". Add in being over 50, and you can be unemployed for a long while, while the back forcloses on your home, and the credit union wants that car back. Or get really sick and your medical benifits run out.

When I see a down and out person, I always thing "There but for the grace of God, Go I'.
 
From reading the responses, it looks like not many have actually been around the homeless.
For the most part, they are dysfunctional, alcoholic, drug users, with a dedication to NOT participating in normal society.
They don't have quality gear, don't much care about quality gear, and are very transient.
They steal from each other, brutalize each other, and get by with theft, vandalism, and by begging. They hang out around the places that local governments provide services.
They are parasites.

and you clearly have never been negatively impacted by an interface with one of the noble homeless that you champion.
Lucky that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. :D

I had some choice comments, but decided to reread both of your posts and try and get a handle on things. So this is my toned down version :D

I think, perhaps, your experiences with homeless persons is limited to a certain subclass, for starters.

Yes, there are a plenty who abuse and use each other. And yeah, you'll find the worst of them hanging around "gubmint offices" a lot.

But that's not the whole story. And not all of them are parasites. Your brush is too broad and one color. That may have something to do with your location, which - much like Venice (CA) or Santa Monica (both places I've dealt with my personal worst experiences with actual bums) is going to be warm, open, populous, and "easy pickings".

You're tarring everyone who ever "went west" to start a new life without a $15,000 nest egg- everyone who manages to make a life out of being a travelling musician, craftsman, laborer- everyone who needed to escape an intolerable situation, with the same brush.

I suspect you make a distinction between these groups, but it's not obvious in the post.


Two things I would pick on a bit-

I don't think "dysfunctional" is necessarily an objective term that an be applied as a condemnation. No, not everyone is cut out to operate in an increasingly limitful and artificial society. But I'm not completely sure where to place the dysfunction on that.

"a dedication to NOT participating in normal society" describes a lot of people I've known, the majority not homeless. I really disagree with condemnation of that trait in and of itself. (yes, you can make a valid argument that some interpretations of that are decidedly negative). In fact, that phrase describes a lot of people who have forced advancement in our society over time.

And, hell, it's one reason we keep moving further and further into the sticks. "normal" society isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's just cracked up.
 
Sorry for keep replying to this thread but since it started I've been thinking a lot about it.

My maternal grandfather was born in the early 1920's in Middlesbrough which is in north east England. Times were hard when he was young, for Christmas the family would have a roast chicken and the children would get a small present each and a tangerine (a big deal in those days apparently!).

I remember him saying that during the school holidays and on weekends him and his small gang of chums would walk to Redcar, a round trip of about 15 miles, not an inconsiderable distance for 8yr olds to walk. Once at the coast they would collect mussels and winkles (a small sea snail which you boil and then pick out of the shell with a needle) then bring them back home for their mothers to cook for the family.

He and his pals would also collect rose hips, crab apples, blackberries etc... a couple of the boys had ferrets, they would put nets over rabbit burrows and then send the ferrets in. Rabbits would bolt and then get caught in the net, they would dispatch the rabbit with a stick. (Me and my brother used to go ferreting but we were always useless. The rabbits would always come out of the holes that we hadn't netted and we would spend hours trying to find our ferrets again!:D)

My grandfather absolutely enjoyed his time as a soldier in WW2. "Johnny" he said "the 2nd World War was the greatest adventure a young man could ever want for". Compared to the dull poor life back at home he got to do and see amazing things.

I know all of that wasn't like homelessness and it was off topic, but it wasn't that long ago when life was hard for a lot of people. My dad was born on VE Day 1945, because of rationing continuing until several years after the war he can remember eating his first banana!

5yrs ago I used to work at a school, I would take a short cut to get there by walking through the woods of a place called Roundhay Park. For months I would see a couple of tents at the top of the woods, a little fire going next to them. One day I passed by and their site had been wrecked, the tents ripped to pieces and their belongings strewn around. They weren't bothering anyone and I can only assume it was delinquent teenagers who'd done that to them. I often wonder what happened to those people and how they coped....

3yrs ago I was in Japan and I noticed more homeless people than I'd ever seen, short of London of course. Unlike the ones I've seen in London these seemed mostly very well organised and existed in a different place in society. It was explained to me that "shame" was quite often why they weren't living with their families.

I would fish the local rivers and see little shanty huts underneath bridges, made of tarpaulin, bamboo and corrugated metal and plastic. Everything rather neat all about, certainly no filth or squalor. I did wonder if living underneath a bridge was a good idea in a country beset by extremely powerful earthquakes, but I suppose unlike an Englishman these folks were pretty blasé about the whole thing.

I'd also see people bedding down in the train stations late at night. They'd get out there little mat, put their bag underneath their head and then put a newspaper over their face. The cops never moved them on, and people just walked by and completely ignored them. On a few occasions I went and bought bottles of green tea and put them next to them. I got funny looks off people walking past and was later told that homeless people would find an act of "charity" offensive. I'm not so sure....perhaps it's all the non-homeless Japanese people who find an act of charity offensive!

I did see Japanese homeless people collecting plastic bottles from bins. They had huge carts piled high with them, I guess they were taking them for recycling and would get some money in exchange. Something you expect to see in the slums of India, not in a high tech first world country. But perhaps there's a good idea for making a couple of quid on the side?

I've rambled too much, apologies for that :o

I think I'll go dig out my copy of "The Grapes Of Wrath".

YB
 
neat set up that guy has with the homemade shelter and tents. you gotta do what you gotta do to survive imo.. i have seen such trails leading behind walmarts and grocery stores leading to the woods. its pretty obvious what its there for.. in fact our local walmart has basically a homeless community in the woods on a hill next to it. when i was younger we got drunk one time and dared each other to follow the trail in the dark. as teens are we followed it. saw some stuff that really scared me (not as in fear) but as in wow i had better get my act straight or i could be in these shoes.. i wish i had taken pics but it was dark and you do not know what those folks will do to a teen. we walked in, they saw us, yelled for us to go away and we did. never went back
 
Homeless, bums, hobos, squatters...
All different groups.
Sometimes individuals overlap into multiple groups.

I also find Mistwalker's view of urban a bit different than mine :D


So where do you think the homeless guy slept in this photo?
CTown.jpg
 
Mist's comments about cache your belongings apart from where you sleep, whether that be in outdoors or a communal shelter, also seems like a gem piece of advice even though I think to many of us that seems unintuitive. I guess it all depends on the probability of getting harassed etc.

I learned to neither cook nor stored all of my stuff where I slept. Over time "stuff" gets accumulated. I never kept all my eggs in one basket.




I give money to the City Mission and the Red Cross. That way I know it won't be spent on alcohol or cigarettes or other drugs.

I don't give money at all. I donate food to food banks, and I give old clothes, pots and pans and stuff to our neighborhood outreach center. I've also donated time there.



and you clearly have never been negatively impacted by an interface with one of the noble homeless that you champion.
Lucky that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. :D

Having been up close and personal with worse case scenarios with predatory street people more than once I'll quickly admit that there are some reeeeeally bad people out there. Survive living on the streets long enough and you will learn to recognize the signs quickly. To this day I can still spot them when I run across them and my mind still automatically goes into the appropriate mode for the situation.

That said...debating the common causes of homelessness wasn't the main point of this thread. Nor did I mean to start an exercise in psychological profiling. More and more people are finding themselves in a financial bind. There are so many people unable here right now that are unable to pay their property taxes it's not funny. The construction industry in this town all but ground to a halt. 7 large factories closed there doors entirely and many others cut back from three shifts a day to just one, many of those not even a full first shift. There was one week in particular when more than 20,000 people when from being employed to being jobless. Some of the companies still going have gone to mostly part time employees, cut some positions, and cut benefits for their full time employees and raised the cost on the benefits they still have. The Wal-Marts here are one of those companies. I have friends who work for the Social Security Administration who have told me that claims for SSI this year are nearly three times what they were last year, and last year was double the year before. Our "homeless" population has tripled over the last three years. I'd say over half of the people in this city were living pay check to pay check before things got this bad. The one industry that I know for sure has a positive growth rate in this town is the security industry.

If... as people say...it will get worse before it gets better then a lot more people may well find themselves suddenly outside. I just think it is something worth thinking about, and wanted to hear other's thoughts on how they would deal with it.



I recall reading someplace that the average American is something like 6 weeks out of bankruptcy.....


Looking at the stats from Katrina society is ever only nine meals away from collapse.



.......And, hell, it's one reason we keep moving further and further into the sticks. "normal" society isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's just cracked up.

Well said.



Homeless, bums, hobos, squatters...
All different groups.
Sometimes individuals overlap into multiple groups.

I also find Mistwalker's view of urban a bit different than mine :D


So where do you think the homeless guy slept in this photo?
CTown.jpg


The area is a little more urban than these pictures make it appear...

And I have slept in libraries more than once, the trick is not to snore...


.
 
From reading the responses, it looks like not many have actually been around the homeless.
For the most part, they are dysfunctional, alcoholic, drug users, with a dedication to NOT participating in normal society.
They don't have quality gear, don't much care about quality gear, and are very transient.
They steal from each other, brutalize each other, and get by with theft, vandalism, and by begging. They hang out around the places that local governments provide services.
They are parasites.

Charming.:rolleyes:
Someone's not big on empathy.
 
A good option to consider is asking a friend if you can camp on their property. My uncle did this for a year or two a long time ago, not because he couldn't afford rent (he's owned a successful car mechanic shop for 20 years or so), but because the man just loves to camp. He'd go to a gym after work every day to take a relaxing steam and a shower, and then retire to his camp site.

This would also be a good option for someone on the out and out or someone who is emotionally unstable, as they won't feel as completely alone having someone they know close at hand.
 
Did I mention what a charming fellow he is?

Well...luckily being charming isn't a requirement to be here.

We are all influenced by our own personal experiences... which are naturally going to be diverse... and none of those should be discounted. Some of us here are a bit naive, some a bit jaded, and some in between. The only way a balance is ever achieved is through looking at something from all perspectives.
 
I'll admit to not being to friendly to the homeless but it might be because of the time I gave change to a guy that said he was flat broke and hungry while I was in line at a drive thru only to pay for my food look over and see that he had a roll of cash bigger around than a soup can and it wasnt all ones oh and I had just used my last 1.50 to buy a cheap sandwhich and soda refill, might been all the feces, beer and alcohol bottles and other assorted nastys I got to clean up because they camped behind my chuch includeing something that smelled very dead in a sleeping bag that had been left under the air conditioner to the back room, could be the times I was robbed or had my stuff broken, might be the time I had a guy try to force his way into the church while I was cleaning and they only way I could get him to get his foot out of the door was to grab my machete that I used to clean up some brush that day and threaten to remove it from his leg, or maybe the 50 times I had to call the cops to get them to remove one of the many that liked to sleep right in front of the door so you couldnt get in or out cause they were in the way. I know not all homeless are like this but we all have diffrent experiences with the homeless and if 99.9% of your interaction is bad to worst then you aint gonna have nice thoughts about someone. If you get bit by a diamondback you aint probably aint gonna like snakes too much.
 
The only way a balance is ever achieved is through looking at something from all perspectives.

But that would take time, time that none of us has, seeing as we don't even the time to post on an interne...
Oh wait, maybe we DO have the time.:D
 
But that would take time, time that none of us has, seeing as we don't even the time to post on an interne...
Oh wait, maybe we DO have the time.:D

Ha, most of us don't have the time...but we somehow seem to make it eh :o
 
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