Urban Survival: Do's, Don'ts, & Questions

[ROCK6]

Well...luckily being charming isn't a requirement to be here.

We are all influenced by our own personal experiences... which are naturally going to be diverse... and none of those should be discounted. Some of us here are a bit naive, some a bit jaded, and some in between. The only way a balance is ever achieved is through looking at something from all perspectives.

Great response Brian! I'm not going to defend Mannlicher's comments as they were most likely influenced by his own experiences. Perspective is something that really can't be stressed enough. I try keeping my personal judgments from impacting how I perceive others...it's really difficult with some cultures, but stereotyping can be dangerous. I try to judge people on where they are headed, not where they came from. Some have serious substance abuse issues or mental illnesses; some are truly victims of circumstances; some are just dirt bags who pan-handle for a living and really are a menace within communities. I have compassion for all, but sympathy only for those truly in need. It's a tough world (although I can't really relate to all); I would hazard a guess that if we had a major national crisis whether financial, terrorist attack or other major (Hollywood) calamity, I would bet a larger number would be in the same boat. Not all have financial stability, preparations or a family safety net.

ROCK6

 

[Gadgetaholic]

TBH I think that Mannlicher is right, but so are most of the other posters. I have no doubt that the people that Mannlicher describes exist and that he has encountered them. It would probably be a good idea for others here to remember that those people are out there and that SOME homeless would be as Mannlicher described.

For anyone amongst us that ever find ourselves in the unfortunate position of being homeless then there are many things mentioned in this thread that are worth remembering. The main thing would be to be careful and to avoid causing trouble to others - the more trouble you cause the more likely someone will ask the police to get you to move along.

I like the idea of finding someone that will let you camp on their property - if you can get some work or welfare or whatever then the money you save on not having a house or car can cover the gym membership and the purchase of camping gear.

 

[Foilist]

Fascinating thread.

There is a book called The Mole People about the homeless living in the subway tunnels under NYC. The author was an anthropologist who got deep into their society to study them and their habits.

I gave away my copy to someone here in WS&S, I forget who . . . I highly recommend this read if you can find it.

 

[Yorkshire Boy]

Very good, didn't think about that - good for your fire-free hot meal.

I went to my corner shop and the Sikh blokes told me you would get 3 free meals a day.

 

[Ebbtide]

The area is a little more urban than these pictures make it appear...

And I have slept in libraries more than once, the trick is not to snore...


.

You've got trees and trails.
We have sidwalks and pavement.


All a matter of personal perception.
IIRC Stephan Covey called it Personal Paradigm.
Basically, we are formed by the events in our lives.
Empathy is easy to say, sometimes hard to do.

Living in NYC, I've seen the same con artists year after year, talked to others about them years after the fact...
Back in the 70's the little old Italian man with his cup in front of the Sheraton Hotel on 53 & 6th... wifey would give him change every morning, broke her heart to hear him say "Para mangari" (for food)...
One day she got a free limo ride into work, the caveat being that she had to leave around an hour or more earlier. She saw the little old guy get dropped off, out of a new cadillac. He went in the coffee shop for breakfast and pulled out a roll of money that could choke the proverbial horse.

In Grand Central there was a guy, clean cut, gringo, late 40's...
He needed money to get back to Connecticut. He forgot his wallet and lost his ticket... yadda yadda... Promised to pay back the $10, even came up with a pen & paper, from his briefcase, to write down your name and address.
I had a summer job and felt as rich as a college kid can with a regular paycheck. I fell for it. Never saw the money.
After I graduated I saw him again, he tried to hit me up with the routine.
I demanded my $10 from the last time.
Should've seen his face....

There is a whole subculture of people that live in the Tunnels of Grand Central. They all came to light (pun not intended) after 9.11 when they upgraded the security down there.
IIRC there was an amazing documentary filmed with them.


I've bought food for "homeless" people.
Some threw it in the trash and demanded money.
Some demanded better than pizza.
Some were grateful.
Some I've had to use the Daddy Voice on...

There are people who are genuinely in need, there are the hustlers and scam artists and then there are the clinically nutz.
The trick is to get a feel for who's who.

Anywho...

The local crazy (like a fox) homeless guy, when out on the streets & not locked up, slept on top of the supermarket.
Up on the dumpster to the awning over the bottle machines, then a jump and pull up to the roof.
And the only reason I knew was because I worked nights and would see him coming up or down at odd hours.

The lesson?
People rarely look up.

 

[JohnQTaxpayer]

I'll admit to not being to friendly to the homeless but it might be because of the time I gave change to a guy that said he was flat broke and hungry while I was in line at a drive thru only to pay for my food look over and see that he had a roll of cash bigger around than a soup can and it wasnt all ones oh and I had just used my last 1.50 to buy a cheap sandwhich and soda refill, might been ...

Cyblade: Thanx for posting an opposing viewpoint and putting some effort into it. I appreciate being able to reading lots of perspectives, without sorting through close-minded comments. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

 

[koyote]

The biggest trap in the whole situation (if you aren't an addict of various sorts) is

need.

It's damned hard to actually starve. Almost something you have to try and do in most areas I've seen/associated with/"been" homeless. or houseless.

The friendly, trustworthy (within specific bounds based on their lives), respectable homeless I've know are the ones who avoid the trap.

Need kills. Friendships, at the least. One group of homeless guys who cooked out at the beach park nearest our basin in Venice (marina del rey) was very sharing, friendly, sociable. They pitched in for beer and bbq and things worked out very well.

Until.

One guy found a laptop in the trash. It was, no crap, like watching "the gods must be crazy". Suddenly the need for money and selling it for the right price (presumed by him to be $500, since it turned on and all) overpowered his relationship with his clan/tribe. It really destroyed things. Like, fistfights and police.

Because suddenly, he NEEDED the money.

 

[Yahmanin]

Fascinating thread.

There is a book called The Mole People about the homeless living in the subway tunnels under NYC. The author was an anthropologist who got deep into their society to study them and their habits.

I gave away my copy to someone here in WS&S, I forget who . . . I highly recommend this read if you can find it.

Someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread. I recalled it vaguely (lot of shots to the head over the years) and took a quick look,and found this Q&A from Cecil Adam's The Straight Dope page, along with the updated column link right below the Q, to be a pretty interesting take on the book and how it was written


FWIT, I've been very impressed with the thoughtfulness of the responses to both the original question asked, and the larger issue(s) in general.

MW, thanks for posting the topic in the first place, and thanks as well to those of you who shared their thoughts and/or particular personal experiences. This is an interesting and thought provoking thread.

 

[Mistwalker]

Great response Brian! I'm not going to defend Mannlicher's comments as they were most likely influenced by his own experiences. Perspective is something that really can't be stressed enough.

ROCK6

Thanks Rock, having had experiences from both extremes I can neither condemn nor support opinions from either of the extremes. While I do find judgemental opinions formed from appearances alone (which has happened to me more than once on my observation outings) a little annoying, I will be quick to say that when it comes to the homeless it really is safer for those with no practical experience to error on the side of caution and not get too close, give too much information away, and don't "out of sight" with anyone you've just met. The few real predators that are out there...and they are out there... take kindness as weakness, because often it is, and take they advantage of that weakness as often as possible.

Having been assaulted one night while sleeping in an abandoned burned out church in St. Louis in late Autumn early Winter about 30 years ago I found myself running through the woods one night. The church grounds took up an entire city block and the church had obviously burned several years before and nature had reclaimed the grounds. When I ran out of the woods and saw myself in the glow of the street lights I thought uh oh... and ran back into the woods and too a small stream that passed through it to wash up, I stripped off my top layer of clothing and washed my exposed skin and realized only a part of the blood was my own. I went to where I had a few things cached in another little wooded area, cut a white t-shirt for a bandage, put on a couple more sweatshirts and headed out of town and headed south walking and hitching rides. The wind-chills were in the negative double digits up there so I was already ready to leave. By the time I made it to Dallas my feet were cracked open and hurting really bad, I had severe frost bite...any longer and I would have lost toes. At Parkland Hospital in Dallas I met an old woman who after talking a bit asked me to come back to her place so my feet could be tended and heal. Her "place" was an abandoned house in some woods in a warehouse area shared with 3 other older women and 4 older men. I was pretty apprehensive at first after the event the week before but my gut said it was ok so I went with it. I was in a weakened state and really did need some time to heal. For the next week they fed me, she doctored my feet and then gave me bus fare to get to my doctors appointment for the check up. The doctor had even bought me some new socks and a new pair of boots to wear after the bandages had come off. She really did the best she could under the circumstances to replace the mother I had lost and for that I will be eternally grateful. Once I was healed for the rest of the winter I made sure we all ate at least one meal a day and usually two by raiding the dumpsters at a couple of near by Mcdonalds and getting the bags of food that are just the discarded sandwiches off the line. They were easy to spot if you got there as they were coming out and watched because they would produce a slight amount of steam in the cold night air. Between that and some of us making money from odd jobs while others stocked wood for the fireplace we as a team made it through a pretty rough winter.

Having nearly been killed by one group of homeless only to be saved by another I realized that the homeless were just like the rest of us...good and bad in both places. There are those who prey, those who nurture, and those in between in all walks of life and I learned to tell the differences pretty quickly.

I like the idea of finding someone that will let you camp on their property - if you can get some work or welfare or whatever then the money you save on not having a house or car can cover the gym membership and the purchase of camping gear.

Thanks to activities like those shown earlier that's not going to be easy unless they actually know you.


There is more for me to respond to here but I have work to do and have to go so...more later.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Having nearly been killed by one group of homeless only to be saved by another I realized that the homeless were just like the rest of us...good and bad in both places. There are those who prey, those who nurture, and those in between in all walks of life and I learned to tell the differences pretty quickly.

Very true.

But, in extreme circumstances, you see the extremes of people. You see the extremely bad -- people you're sure you should just kill to keep them from the rest of society, and the extremely good -- people that really deserve a Nobel Peace Prize or something.

 

[Wanderlust]

First of all I just want to say THANK YOU to all of you who have commented on this, especially to those of you who were yourselves homeless. I imagine that that was a very difficult time for you and I, for one, really appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. I know that I really have learned a lot from everybody.

Personally I really agree with the levels of homelessness, I was "homeless" for a while in college. My apartment lease was up and my other lease didn't start for another month, and I still had class. So I lived out of my car for that month, luckily for me a had a few good friends still there for the summer that I was able to bounce from couch to couch for that month. I was also able to go home on some of the weekends as my parents only lived 45 min away. I was again living in my car a few years ago when I volunteered for a back country trail crew job. But that was mostly back country with a little bit of front country time when I would just camp or stay with some of the other guys on the crew. I would always pay rent for the nights I stayed with them though. These have really been my only personal experiences with being homeless and I these were both mostly by choice and not that extreme.

As far as my kit would go, I would make sure that I had a good pliers based multi-tool. A good stout fixed blade knife probably dropped in the pack so as not to cause alarm or trouble with police. I would also carry a good strong locking folder, legal of course, on my person at all times. A Bic lighter and firesteel would also go in it, along with a metal pot or cup, and a nalgene. There would be a tarp and a blanket in my bag as well. This kit would be kept on my person at all times in a small day bag/book bag.

As far as the larger/long term gear I really like the idea of it being cached in multiple places around the city/area of my roamings.

One thing that I have picked up on in my roamings is Hostels in the US and abroad. They usually have a stay length limit but you can get a hot shower, and laundry (pay) for around 20 bucks a night. It might be a good idea every once in a while and is good for your mental survival, plus there are a lot of really cool people there.

As far as what I do for the homeless people I encounter, I ALWAYS treat them with the same respect I do any other person I meet. I cannot judge them for there situation as I have no idea why or how they came to get to that point in life. Personally I never give money to a homeless person, I will give them things tho, leftovers from my lunch that I didn't eat things like that. I once gave a man on a freeway off ramp my canned peaches and he was EXTREMELY grateful. I like doing things like that because you can usually see the gratitude and you know it won't be going to drugs/alcohol.

Sorry for the long winded remarks, but thank you to all who have contributed to this tread I really have learned a lot.

 

[Mistwalker]

Very true.

But, in extreme circumstances, you see the extremes of people. You see the extremely bad -- people you're sure you should just kill to keep them from the rest of society, and the extremely good -- people that really deserve a Nobel Peace Prize or something.

Really well said bro.

First of all I just want to say THANK YOU to all of you who have commented on this, especially to those of you who were yourselves homeless. I imagine that that was a very difficult time for you and I, for one, really appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. I know that I really have learned a lot from everybody.

The whole point was to provoke thoughts and share them, thank you I am glad you've enjoyed the thread.

.

 

[Mistwalker]

You've got trees and trails.
We have sidwalks and pavement.


All a matter of personal perception.
IIRC Stephan Covey called it Personal Paradigm.
Basically, we are formed by the events in our lives.
Empathy is easy to say, sometimes hard to do.

Living in NYC, I've seen the same con artists year after year, talked to others about them years after the fact...
Back in the 70's the little old Italian man with his cup in front of the Sheraton Hotel on 53 & 6th... wifey would give him change every morning, broke her heart to hear him say "Para mangari" (for food)...
One day she got a free limo ride into work, the caveat being that she had to leave around an hour or more earlier. She saw the little old guy get dropped off, out of a new cadillac. He went in the coffee shop for breakfast and pulled out a roll of money that could choke the proverbial horse.

In Grand Central there was a guy, clean cut, gringo, late 40's...
He needed money to get back to Connecticut. He forgot his wallet and lost his ticket... yadda yadda... Promised to pay back the $10, even came up with a pen & paper, from his briefcase, to write down your name and address.
I had a summer job and felt as rich as a college kid can with a regular paycheck. I fell for it. Never saw the money.
After I graduated I saw him again, he tried to hit me up with the routine.
I demanded my $10 from the last time.
Should've seen his face....

There is a whole subculture of people that live in the Tunnels of Grand Central. They all came to light (pun not intended) after 9.11 when they upgraded the security down there.
IIRC there was an amazing documentary filmed with them.


I've bought food for "homeless" people.
Some threw it in the trash and demanded money.
Some demanded better than pizza.
Some were grateful.
Some I've had to use the Daddy Voice on...

There are people who are genuinely in need, there are the hustlers and scam artists and then there are the clinically nutz.
The trick is to get a feel for who's who.

Anywho...

The local crazy (like a fox) homeless guy, when out on the streets & not locked up, slept on top of the supermarket.
Up on the dumpster to the awning over the bottle machines, then a jump and pull up to the roof.
And the only reason I knew was because I worked nights and would see him coming up or down at odd hours.

The lesson?
People rarely look up.

Yeah...we have them in the city...for now...more and more the wooded areas in the city itself are being developed. The area I live in is on the outskirts of the city.

I do see some here year after year but only a few. Usually telling them they have already hit me and it's somebody else's turn is enough to get them to go away. Some of the ones on the streets here give me..."that feeling" and I have told a few that I knew what they were and if they get any closer one of us is leaving in a plastic bag.

The biggest trap in the whole situation (if you aren't an addict of various sorts) is

need.

It's damned hard to actually starve. Almost something you have to try and do in most areas I've seen/associated with/"been" homeless. or houseless.

The friendly, trustworthy (within specific bounds based on their lives), respectable homeless I've know are the ones who avoid the trap.

Need kills. Friendships, at the least. One group of homeless guys who cooked out at the beach park nearest our basin in Venice (marina del rey) was very sharing, friendly, sociable. They pitched in for beer and bbq and things worked out very well.

Until.

One guy found a laptop in the trash. It was, no crap, like watching "the gods must be crazy". Suddenly the need for money and selling it for the right price (presumed by him to be $500, since it turned on and all) overpowered his relationship with his clan/tribe. It really destroyed things. Like, fistfights and police.

Because suddenly, he NEEDED the money.

Survival, work...anything of a group nature requires team work. If any one person sees their self as being "better" than the others...not better at one or more particular things but better in general...and the team is in trouble. Some people are just not team players no matter the environment or situation.

FWIT, I've been very impressed with the thoughtfulness of the responses to both the original question asked, and the larger issue(s) in general.

MW, thanks for posting the topic in the first place, and thanks as well to those of you who shared their thoughts and/or particular personal experiences. This is an interesting and thought provoking thread.

That was the whole point.

Thanks, glad you've enjoyed the thread.

.

 

[sodak]

Great thread! I also agree with the various levels of homelessness and reasons why. We have some bums camped out by my office, able bodied, young, no inclination to work. I've given them food from time to time, but do get tired of their antics. They simply don't want to work. I don't give them much any more, as I've gotten to know them.

Then we have some further away that I'm sure have mental illness. I really feel for them, these folks really need help, and can't cope by themselves. I'm not sure how to help them, or even if I could. It's a problem, that's for sure.

Sometimes I get up on my high horse about it, then remember that they all had mothers whose hearts would probably break is they saw what has happened. Sometimes all you can do is say a prayer for them.

 

[randomlooker]

I think the number of comments here by people who've lived in or are in Seattle about the homeless population is interesting (More locals! We should have a get-together sometime). There's a few factors behind it... Seattle's the jumping off point for the Alaskan fishing industry, for example. People come from all over looking for work on a boat, find out there's tons of people with the same idea, and get stuck without hopes of a job and no money to go back home. The city also has a reputation for being very friendly to the homeless... lots of shelters, services, subsidized housing programs, and the like. Things have gotten tighter in the last few years with the crappy economy, and there's the odd police raid on camps in greenbelts and parks, but it's still pretty friendly -- and for the more resourceful, there's lots of forest (accessible by bus, even!) where you can find a spot for a camp and worry more about bears than humans disturbing you. Then there's other cities shipping people here. I've seen people with recent discharge paperwork from hospitals in other cities saying 'Use the supplied bus ticket to go to Seattle and seek services there.' When I first moved to Seattle, it wasn't uncommon to get hit up by panhandlers a half dozen times just crossing one street. I don't spend time downtown during the day any more, but I doubt that's changed much.

These days, I work with the most severely alcoholic and addicted segments of the homeless population... people who aren't even capable of putting together a half-arsed camp or caring for themselves beyond finding the next drink or rock to stave off withdrawal symptoms.

Thus, my biased, #1 rule: Avoid drugs and booze when homeless at all costs. They'll close doors (Many shelters (Which are a last resort) won't take people with alcohol on their breath or who test positive on a breathalyzer) and it's way too easy to start drinking more and more and ending up so low you have to look up to see the bottom of the barrel.

The suggestions about keeping clean are all really good too. If you're filthy not because you've been working hard but because you just haven't showered or changed your clothes in a few weeks or months, you lose a lot of self respect and dignity and more doors start to close that are hard to reopen. Keeping clean, staying out of trouble, keeping a low profile to avoid being hassled. If you don't LOOK homeless, it'll be easier to get by.

Libraries are a great place to hang out if you have nowhere else to go.

 

[sadiejane]

having owned a bicycle business in the heart of the urban core, had lots of experiences with homeless folk. one in particular was a vet. had absolutely nothing but rotted stumps for teeth. the va wouldnt help him out with dental care as it was not "service related". that is a quote directly from one of the va staff i talked to. this guy neither used any sorta drugs nor alcohol. worked hard when he could. did have a "video game addiction". when he would show up for a job interview, what do you think the person interviewing thought when "jack" smiled and showed his "teeth". getting legitimate jobs was nearly impossible for him. i let him do odd jobs at the shop to compensate for me helping keep his bicycle running. his only means of transportation. i also handed him over bank deposits to take to the bank for me with no hesitation. there were a cupla other guys who had a "bike shop" set up in an alley down the street. we gave em lots of parts we couldnt use. they built up simple bikes and sold/traded em to mostly other homeless folk. they lived in the same alley where they had their bike repair set-up. one of my customers one day made a comment about why i would help those "deadbeats". many a day i watched "ron" and "slim" ride their bicycles pulling a shopping cart with one arm while riding with the other. they would collect scrap metal and take to the local scrap yard down the street. they did this most everyday for food beer whatever. have ya ever tried to ride a bicycle pulling a shopping cart full of scrap metal around town all day? they certainly worked harder than i did. was hard for me to see them as "deadbeats". one of the truths i learned for from these guys, was "there but for the grace of god...". it became painfully clear there were only a cupla things that seperated me from them. 1st-the ability to "function" on a physical/emotional level that i can remain "accepted" by the general society, and maintain work. 2nd-a family/friend/tribe system that would not likely allow me to fail to that extent. personally(lucky b*tch that i am) would have to work very hard to burn a great many bridges before i had no support system at all.
to be honest i met a few "dangerous" characters too. mostly, tho the ones who were truly dangerous to themselves or others were seriously mentally ill. that doesnt make em any less dangerous. but none of us or them stated when asked the question, that we wanna grow up to be a schizophrenic, living in an alley with absolutely no access to any sorta services.
as i stated in another similar thread some months ago, i am not a bleeding heart liberal by any means. and i absolutely expect those who are capable to do the work. but, unfortunately there are more folks out there than we can imagine that simply are not capable of helping themselves. call it luck, hard work, smarts, circumstances whatever- i pray every single day as i walk thru my truly blessed life that i never forget that "there but for the grace of god...."

 

[Iboschi]

Invasive? Reread the OP again. The former owner of the items considered them "disposable" and had left the state, leaving his garbage and tent, etc. behind. As the OP was asked by a relative to retrieve a few minor pieces of kit for her, not the whole shebang, the rest was obviously intended to be abandoned. The person in the example was not camping on his own land, but squatting briefly on land he didn't own. OP purposely did not mention the subject's name, age, forwarding address or SS#. I fail to see how showing us his pictures and starting a very valid discussion on urban survival using them as an example is 'invasive' or the person who abandoned the things shown in the photographs.

And to the subject of mental problems/addictions and the homeless, often if is difficult to tell cause from effect. Not all people with "issues" are homeless, and not all homeless have "issues".

Actually, I read it fine the first time. The photography was done WHILE the person was living there but while away from camp. Mistwalker waited until the person moved on entirely, before beginning this discussion. This was a spot where someone was living and had made a semi-home. Taking pictures without express permission is a minor ethical violation (not a legal violation) and invasive in my opinion. Asking someone for permission to document their habitat would be more satisfying than just doing it while they're away. In fact, it would be significantly more interesting to have permission, take the photographs, and obtain an interview on record with the individual documenting some personal history etc.

 

[Mistwalker]

Actually, I read it fine the first time. The photography was done WHILE the person was living there but while away from camp. Mistwalker waited until the person moved on entirely, before beginning this discussion. This was a spot where someone was living and had made a semi-home. Taking pictures without express permission is a minor ethical violation (not a legal violation) and invasive in my opinion. Asking someone for permission to document their habitat would be more satisfying than just doing it while they're away. In fact, it would be significantly more interesting to have permission, take the photographs, and obtain an interview on record with the individual documenting some personal history etc.

Didn't want to make it a personal thing about one individual, just wanted to discuss the thoughts it brought to mine.

He knows I am a photographer, he knows I am an environmentalist to a degree...enough that I don't litter EVER and I recycle, and he knows I teach survival. He knows about my urban studies and has even had the benefit of receiving some some lessons and some gear from me. He knows I document such things and discuss them and he still interrupted my morning by having his mother ask me to go get something from there for him which was made necessary through a stupid move on his part, and he knows it is being used as a discussion on urban survival without any details about him. You didn't see all the pictures, the ones I showed him as I was chewing his @$$ were left out as a courtesy to him.

 

[Iboschi]

Didn't want to make it a personal thing about one individual, just wanted to discuss the thoughts it brought to mine.

He knows I am a photographer, he knows I am an environmentalist to a degree...enough that I don't litter EVER and I recycle, and he knows I teach survival. He knows about my urban studies and has even had the benefit of receiving some some lessons and some gear from me. He knows I document such things and discuss them and he still interrupted my morning by having his mother ask me to go get something from there for him which was made necessary through a stupid move on his part, and he knows it is being used as a discussion on urban survival without any details about him. You didn't see all the pictures, the ones I showed him as I was chewing his @$$ were left out as a courtesy to him.

Well, I appreciate that information. It makes me feel better about the circumstance and discussion. Thanks for making it clear that he is aware of the situation.

 

[Will Power]

Lot of food for thought here, this is WHAT a forum should be:thumbup:

Even here in Europe, where we have highish levels of welfare/social security, the economic downturn has created great insecurity. This thing is global alright. Coming home after a tiring day of work, sometimes stressed and fed-up, you have to think what it would be like if you didn't have a secure home and the comforts we are use to. The homeless, whoever they are and for whatever reason they are homeless, do face hardships and privations everyday. That is a sobering thought,the elements can soon deprive people of anything other than a bestial need to survive, it can deprive them of any sense of the future. I like roughing it outdoors and relish the countryside, but being forced to live outdoors in makeshift conditions is quite another thing. just trying to stay dry can be an all absorbing problem, it aint for the faint-hearted that's a fact.

If I had to live outdoors I would take two favourite knives, one folding,one fixed and a small hatchet. Pack, PSK,water bottle, a thermal blanket/tarp thing I have which is really useful and some things to keep me clean. It's the hygiene thing that would freak me, I like washing and keeping myself presentable so soap/toiletries are essential because NOBODY likes people who stink,end. I wonder in these solo bivvys or group camps what people do about latrines? digging one must be essential due to disease, self respect and not attracting unwelcome vermin. Feral dogs as well as thugs looking for easy solo targets could be a major problem too.

As Jackknife wrote earlier, There but for the grace of god go I. You never know if it may happen to you or not, and if it does you would hope to be treated with understanding not hatred or prejudice. As Dr Johnson said, "Don't upbraid a man for relishing the gutter if you tread him into it" If it happened to me, I would not survive long, without the money for my daily medication I would go blind,permanently in weeks. We should count our blessings and be careful when thinking of those who are in trouble in these troubled times.