User mods on RAT Cutlery

Jeff, I can see your position on the “DON’T BUY OUR STUFF” post. I certainly do appreciate were you’re coming from. However (Oh! Boy. Here we go.) many in this forum are knife aficionados and part of that does translate into some tinkering and moding. I know I’m guilty of that, even if I haven’t done it to any of my RATs (I wrapped my Izula with paracord, but that doesn’t qualify). It’s also part of the survivalism and individualism philosophy you talk about. We (I) just can’t help it. We’re not trying to make things better, we’re just making them more ours and to serve our purposes, even if/when we’re defeating the purpose of the original design. I apologize if this irks you as the creator of the knives, but understand also that choosing your knives reflects the recognition of the quality of your work. In fact, we are probably its most devoted fans. It goes without saying that it would never cross my mind to send a modified knife for warranty claims.

I’m sorry if my attitude frustrates you, but I hope it doesn’t. And I certainly hope to continue to buy your stuff.
 
Since there's already a recent topic about this, I'll bring it up here.
I find the choil on my rc-4 to be just a little bit small for my fingers, and when i'm using it, my finger tends to rub really close to the cutting edge. Anyone here enlarge the choil on any of their RATs? Assuming I do a neat, rounded file job, are there any concerns about doing this that I'm not thinking of?
 
Yes, I have the same issue with my RC-6 and it's gonna get worse over the years as the sharpening will take it down even further; shrinking the choil width.
 
I'm interested in stripping an Izula and doing a satin finish. I can't see why that would be an issue. Any concerns?
 
Yeah, not worried about rust. I care for all my knives, most of which are carbon. I just wanted the approval of the powers that be, as requested by R.A.T.
 
Remember, we warranty everything, even stupidity. :D All we are asking is to think before you make a change that might hurt structural integrity, but if you don't and you break it, we will still replace it. ;)
 
R.A.T. said:
Remember, we warranty everything, even stupidity. :D All we are asking is to think before you make a change that might hurt structural integrity, but if you don't and you break it, we will still replace it. ;)
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Man, this should be the exact description of the RAT Cutlery warranty. Word for word, you should put this on your website. :p It just don't get any better than that.
 
lol im neither. not raiesed on the farm like many people here. but not some person from the city who runs in terror at the sight of a knife. im in the south and trust me i know from experience it is good to have a knife with you at all times.
 
R.A.T. said:
....There are a lot of good knife companies out there producing better knives than RAT Cutlery - ....
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I don't agree with that. I think that's bullshit. :)


R.A.T. said:
Never forget the fact that the knife industry is about 90 percent bullshit.

Jeff
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So true. It only took me about 5 years to learn this. :)

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You guys rock. I currently only have an Izula and have moved away from folders. I carry slippies and fixed blades now. I like the combo the best. I'm about to buy a RC-4 here soon. :)

Merry Christmas!
 
This is the best thread I have ever read on any forum EVER. I initially came to RAT by the suggestion of a knife salesmen I had spoken with at "Smokey Mountain Knife Works". I was looking for a good quality all around backpacking knife. So, I shopped around a little (on the internet) and purchased an RC-4. In my search for reviews and extra info. on my knife I stumbled across this forum. Since then I have been totally blown away by literally every aspect of RAT and the people on this forum. Sorry for being off topic. Just felt like it needed to be said.
 
R.A.T. said:
We have been noticing an increasing amount of threads with people modding their knives, such as sharpening the jimping on the Izula. There are a certain amount of physics that go into creating a knife. Sometimes going against these laws of physics may cause your knife to become less reliable, weaken and/or break it. We simply ask for everyone to ask us before before modifying the physics behind one of our knives.

I would also like to address another issue that concerns the "Don't buy our knives" sticky. I have gotten several emails from members asking why we would post such a thing, and if we meant it. WE DO, IN FACT, MEAN IT!!!! Our knives are tools made to be used by people who have at least a basic understanding and respect for hand tools, their use, and the maintenance associated with them. We pride ourselves in the fact that our customer base probably has more common sense and survivability than 90 percent of the folks walking around. Maybe that sounds "elitist" but the common sense Invidualist is indeed our target market. We want customers who use knives and appreciate tools for what they are. If this hurts anyone's feelings, so be it - DONT BUY OUR STUFF!

RAT has always been about a no-bullshit philosophy of Individualism, Survivalism, Common Sense and Reason. We are NOT interested in catering to any other mindset. That does not mean that we don't welcome newcomers to this philosophy of common sense, Individualism and Survivalism. In fact, we love to see new folks come on board and learn. All we're saying is if you want to get out and run through the woods like an idiot, throw knives, beat on them with hammers or intentionally abuse shit just becasue you can, and then not understand how to maintain it after all of that, then buy someone else's stuff. We're not interested in you being a RAT customer. There are a lot of good knife companies out there producing better knives than RAT Cutlery - and they will tell you that as they welcome your $$$. Maybe they're the company for you. On the other hand, if you have a respect for the tools you purchase, enjoy using them as they are intended to be used, but feel you might some day need to abuse it to save a life or get you out of a jam, then RAT Cutlery may be the the company for you.

Never forget the fact that the knife industry is about 90 percent bullshit.

Jeff
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I believe I understand the intent of this post and appreciate the message. Suggesting that the physics and design are well thought out and tampering could result in a weaker design is understandable.

However, I think that asking people to clear any modifications through ESEE is a bit unrealistic. People simply want to tinker with what is theirs and asking that they ask ESEE before tampering implies ESEE still has ownership of the product. As we have noted by the modifications done regularly and posted on this forum, consumers aren't interested in touching base before they tamper with a tool or item they own.

Alternately, indicating that it might void the warranty unless it is a sanctioned modification is a more subtle way of reaching that desired goal of creating an intelligent dialog on the knifes design and function. It might also create a more open relationship for people to suggest design improvements (nothing is perfect). It would also let ESEE off the hook if someone with 10 thumbs decided to fugger up their knife. Just my two cents.
 
Companies these days are out to make a fast buck. ESEE stood out from the rest. Kudos to your culture and guiding principles.
 
Though I've been around knives and blades almost my whole knife, I've only been around BF for a few months. And only very recently I discovered the ESEE corner :). I got in touch with RAT Cutlery through the forums, and I really liked what I saw, to the point that hopefully my first ESEE knife, a HEST, will be delivered this Friday or Monday :D.

But I would like to comment on the mentality of ESEE brand and of course, the forum. As expected, you have a lot of fanboys here, heck, I think I'm becoming one if I'm not already a fanboy :p, but one thing that I noticed is that folks here have a different way at looking at the blades in their collection, and I assume everyone here is a collector. You guys look at your blades as tools, as does the guys who makes them. I find that really cool, because first it denotes that these knives are good stuff, and second, it's a more laid back atmosphere here, since nobody is worried about how much their knife will fetch in the second hand market in a couple of years. No problem in collecting with that mentality, do it whatever way it floats your boat, but at least for me it does give the hobby a certain snobby air that I rather avoid. I have other hobbies where the rare factor is important, so if possible I would prefer to keep knives and gear in a more "practical & down-to-earth" level. From what I've seen so far, the people behind ESEE knives have exactly that philosophy, so congrats on making a solid and no bullshit product that can be collected but most important of all, can and is expected to be used. And used hard :thumbup:.

The only problem with all this is that I hardly will stop on the HEST. So as I said on another thread, BF is a real bottomless money pit :eek:.

Well, just wanted to share that, so now back to counting the days and looking online for updates on the delivery of my HEST :cool:.
 
Iboschi said:
I believe I understand the intent of this post and appreciate the message. Suggesting that the physics and design are well thought out and tampering could result in a weaker design is understandable.

However, I think that asking people to clear any modifications through ESEE is a bit unrealistic. People simply want to tinker with what is theirs and asking that they ask ESEE before tampering implies ESEE still has ownership of the product. As we have noted by the modifications done regularly and posted on this forum, consumers aren't interested in touching base before they tamper with a tool or item they own.

Alternately, indicating that it might void the warranty unless it is a sanctioned modification is a more subtle way of reaching that desired goal of creating an intelligent dialog on the knifes design and function. It might also create a more open relationship for people to suggest design improvements (nothing is perfect). It would also let ESEE off the hook if someone with 10 thumbs decided to fugger up their knife. Just my two cents.
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I think this post was made mainly as a suggestion. What I mean is that I don't think this post was a demand or even a request that people actually get permission before changing their knives, instead they are giving you the opportunity to consult with them about the effects of a proposed change. I think this is mainly intended for those that have never made or designed their own knives (I am in this group), or are just starting on the path away from mall ninja knives and knife companies and may not understand the adverse effects of a lot of the gimmicky crap that people can get their hands on. They never implied that modifying your knife will void your warranty, in fact they explicitly state that your knife will STILL be covered! Personally, I think that's too much to ask of a knife maker but it's not my company ;) They get much respect from me because of how firmly they stand behind even modified versions of their knives.

Even if they are asking people to really contact them prior to making any mods, I think that's the least you can do considering they will still warranty the thing after you've ground down your RC-6 into a fillet knife and drilled holes every 1/4" down the length of the blade.
 
choltzapple said:
I think this post was made mainly as a suggestion. What I mean is that I don't think this post was a demand or even a request that people actually get permission before changing their knives, instead they are giving you the opportunity to consult with them about the effects of a proposed change. I think this is mainly intended for those that have never made or designed their own knives (I am in this group), or are just starting on the path away from mall ninja knives and knife companies and may not understand the adverse effects of a lot of the gimmicky crap that people can get their hands on. They never implied that modifying your knife will void your warranty, in fact they explicitly state that your knife will STILL be covered! Personally, I think that's too much to ask of a knife maker but it's not my company ;) They get much respect from me because of how firmly they stand behind even modified versions of their knives.

Even if they are asking people to really contact them prior to making any mods, I think that's the least you can do considering they will still warranty the thing after you've ground down your RC-6 into a fillet knife and drilled holes every 1/4" down the length of the blade.
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I agree with you whole-heartedly. However, semantics and wording is everything in communication.

Their message is only clear after this thread begins to unfold, but the original intent still lingers. Another option would be to make a sticky or post somewhere on the website that indicates that while users may modify their knife, the design is potential flawed by such modification etc. and the user is encouraged to contact ESEE before doing so.
 
I modded the pommel of my RC3 to make a scraper similar to the TOPS Shango. While most would agree it does not compromise the structural integrity of the knife I would have to think twice about taking RAT up on their warranty should anything happen to this knife under normals usage. I just feel as if the minute I take a grinder to my knife that I've essentially just told the company that I no longer need their warranty and will replace it myself if I do something to break it or make it non-serviceable.

Thanks for your no BS warranty and your no BS attitude towards your knives and your customers. At first I thought it was a little too much "in-your-face" but I've really come to appreciate it.
 
myright said:
Thanks for your no BS warranty and your no BS attitude towards your knives and your customers. At first I thought it was a little too much "in-your-face"
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....you may not be alone, since there appears to be a bit of a shift in the attitude....from "don't buy our knives"....to a recent "we appreciate all of you"...Dale Carnegie course maybe???....anyway, good idea, IMO.:thumbup:
 
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