Uses of a Tanto.

[Edwood7]

I think given a choice you should cut someone first and if that doesn't send them running you'll have to just do what you have to do.

I'm only saying this because speaking from personal experience and 5 years probation and $10,000 in restitution(slashing motion wound not stabbing) from medical bills, I'm glad I'm not in jail for life for murder. Luckily I was not using a tanto blade then. Because the doctors may not have been able to sew the guy up in time...hit an artery. That was 20 years ago. It was self defense but because I went to his house it didn't really look that way, so I took a deal...true story.

Josh

Well I look for immediate neutralization, on most of the situations I have had to use a knife, so yes I see wear there is a difference. I use it as an offensive weapon.
Deep penetrating down ward stabs to the clavicle area ( this is the best bet if facing some one wearing body armor), horizontal stabs to the arm pit area or kidneys and upward stabs that insert just wear the ribs start and pierce the lungs, are the targets that are best for stopping an assailant. Cuts tend to take longer to stop an active attacker. You’d be surprised at how much damage the human body can take when adrenalin or drugs are involved.

A curved blade does help whit these types of stabs.

 

[Hankins]

I would take the Japanese Tanto for SD and American for CQC

 

[Edwood7]

I'm pretty sure Cold Steel did a penetration test using the american tanto, traditional tanto, and drop point blade styles. It looked pretty reliable and found that the american tanto faired better.

The problem whit does types of test is the are not very realistic, the fact that the target has a table or a wall behind it and the knife wilder is standing and gets a full force blow whit no stress is not realistic at all.

These are the best penetrating knives I have test out on Kevlar and thick leather, it’s a Hissatsu and a Lynn Dowson Sting custom knife.
The spike on the Winkler combat axe is just perfect weapon than can puncture even a Kevlar helmet if the need arises.

But the Hissatsu is just made for stabbing; it’s the best knife I’ve seen made for this purpose.

 

[Noctis3880]

Well I look for immediate neutralization, on most of the situations I have had to use a knife, so yes I see wear there is a difference. I use it as an offensive weapon.
Deep penetrating down ward stabs to the clavicle area ( this is the best bet if facing some one wearing body armor), horizontal stabs to the arm pit area or kidneys and upward stabs that insert just wear the ribs start and pierce the lungs, are the targets that are best for stopping an assailant. Cuts tend to take longer to stop an active attacker. You’d be surprised at how much damage the human body can take when adrenalin or drugs are involved.

Not wanting to start a debate or anything, but wouldn't that depend heavily on where you cut? If you stab them, you have to wait until they bleed out, die from organ failure, or until they realize they can't breathe.

If you cut the muscles, they are physically incapable of moving that limb instantly.

Of course, that is assuming they don't have adequate protection in those areas. People in war zones dress differently than some punk looking to mug you in a lone street in the US.

 

[nothinghappenedtoday]

1) They look cool. Nothing wrong with that - I've bought plenty of knives just on looks alone

2) The American tanto tip is actually great for scraping/prying. Used it on my CS Voyager many times to peel of sticker/decals. Not glamorous, I know. There are ninjas rolling in their graves right now.

 

[Edwood7]

Read some of Edwood's posts. It is highly likely that he has. I would imagine that his preference is the Japanese style's ability to better penetrate body armor. It is essentially the same reason Medieval axes and polearms had a pick on one side. The piercing ability is the key.

That is exactly my reasoning behind my choice of knife. :thumbup:

 

[40Degrees]

my zombie killer. custom swept bowie 10" x 1/4" blade ats-34, 15" overall w/vine file work on the spine and tang african zebra handle

 

[Tsujigiri]

The only time I've bought a tanto was my Bradley Kimura VI. I liked the flat edges of the tanto because it makes it easier for me to tape up the blade for practice.

 

[jonj480]

If you draw a knife in a show of defense that means you're not justified for deadly force. That means that you've now escalated the situation and it is within their right to respond with deadly force. Isn't that a correct assessment? There is no such thing as "show defense". You are either justified, or you're not.

Sorry, your "show defense" is going to get you in trouble.

You are absolutely correct. My response was meant "tongue in cheek".

I wouldn't pull a knife in a fight because I am not trained to fight with a knife and wouldn't want it used against me. It would absolutely be a last ditch effort. I am better off with my bare hands. I would absolutely not escalate a situation. Better to walk away.

 

[Sep]

I think of an American tanto blade as a Wharncliffe or sheep's foot with a bonus edge. The short edge can also be used as a chisel. It's a good utility shape for people doing construction work and the like.

 

[Jesse D.L]

I've always seen american tanto style folders to be more utilitarian than anything, it's good having the two flat edges for scraping, and since the ones I've had (emerson) were quite thick, it makes it quite a good light prybar nice utility beater shape. Combat wise I would go with something more pointy/soft target oriented.

 

[40Degrees]

I think of an American tanto blade as a Wharncliffe or sheep's foot with a bonus edge. The short edge can also be used as a chisel. It's a good utility shape for people doing construction work and the like.

:thumbup: that's exactly what it is. but, some people don't understand how useful that can be. plus, they don't have the skills to sharpen them. so, they don't like them due to their lack of skills to use and sharpen one. it's really too bad cause it's really a very useful blade in the right hands.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Well I look for immediate neutralization, on most of the situations I have had to use a knife ... as an offensive weapon.

... Cuts tend to take longer to stop an active attacker. You’d be surprised at how much damage the human body can take when adrenalin or drugs are involved.

...the best penetrating knives ... on Kevlar and thick leather...

... the Hissatsu is just made for stabbing; it’s the best knife I’ve seen made for this purpose.

...If you stab them, you have to wait until they bleed out, die from organ failure, or until they realize they can't breathe.

If you cut the muscles, they are physically incapable of moving that limb instantly.

Of course, that is assuming they don't have adequate protection in those areas...

This is an interesting discussion of offensive and defensive knife technique.

Defensively, slashing can (depending on their resolve) keep an offender at a distance and even a small wound (slight depth) may suffice as deterrent. A slash has the potential to create a much larger wound area than a stab with the same weapon and so requires less skill at targeting. Slashing also keeps the 'slasher' in motion, such that a blow may be dealt without having to pause and withdraw from a plunge.
A slash must be either decently placed or of significant depth to actually disable the offender instantaneously, and especially so to be immediately lethal. Thick clothing and/or body-armor effectively prevent penetration of most hand-delivered disabling slashes from knives.

Stabbing functions for maximum penetration depth over an area as large as the blade-tip, but this area increases if the stab is curved/twisted internally. This requires good placement/targeting of the blade if the tip is rather narrow (a hole punch). This requires greater skill and/or closer, prolonged contact with the target (or even greater skill if the target is in motion, just like sniping) in order to achieve proper placement and depth of penetration.
However, an effective stab with a knife can be accomplished around or even through body armor and other defenses, and can be immediately lethal.

So, does Edwood7 prefer stabbing to slashing with knives because his opponents are more often armored/defended and the intention is a quick kill vs. non-lethal disablement?

 

[sodak]

How well does a Tanto fair up in outdoor survival or urban survival, as well as a self defense weapon?

What do you like about em? What do you feel they excel in, as well as lack?

May it be fixed blade or a folder of some form.

The only tanto I have experience with is the CS Recon Tanto in Carbon V. I have always really liked it, it has enough belly for most tasks, and the tip is strong enough for light prying, such as digging arrows out of tree stumps, things like that. I can't comment about using it in a self defense role, but I'm sure it would work fine there.

It's in my rotation of woods knives, a little light for some tasks, but easy to carry and very, very strong. Tanto v.s. drop point used to be a HUGE argument on BF years ago, people tend to have very strong feelings - but I like them both!

 

[Hombre Secreto]

You know what they say... when all you have is a tanto, everything looks like a car door.

I used to have a Cold Steel standard model tanto, which I bought for about $50 in 1990. I carried it throughout the first gulf war as my last ditch defense, and fortunately, never needed it. I took me about 2 weeks of sharpening with a Lansky just to get it to an angle that the Lansky could handle, and it was a great knife. Unfortunately, it got picked up by somebody when I was in college, and that was that.

My only gripe now is that I haven't replaced it sooner. I wish Cold Steel still offered a non-SanMai version of the knife.

 

[Edwood7]

So, does Edwood7 prefer stabbing to slashing with knives because his opponents are more often armored/defended and the intention is a quick kill vs. non-lethal disablement?

I’m always looking for a fast way of neutralizing an attacker, you stop one attacker and take them to the ground, so that if you are working whit a team of shooters, their line of fire is clear and they can engage any other target in the room if the need arises.
That’s form a tactical prospective. I mostly depend on this type of techniques as a back up to my primary weapons ( glock 17 and MP5 or G36).
But if self defense and not offence is the game I think a few slashes to the for arms or chest area are going to help you get out of danger when running away is not an option. Just my humble opinion.

 

[cckw]

I'm pretty sure Cold Steel did a penetration test using the american tanto, traditional tanto, and drop point blade styles. It looked pretty reliable and found that the american tanto faired better.

Or maybe they went to the mall and asked the ninjas there which looks more cool... or maybe they just made the American Tanto because they are an American company with an American market.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Edwood7,
Thank you for the tactical assessment :thumbup:
If I interpret correctly, your preferred technique - a well-placed stab - is specifically aimed at neutralizing a target and removing it from line of site to expedite putting a bead on other potential targets. Slashing is usually less efficient at accomplishing this....

But this is a task you can accomplish equally well with any tip-design? Or that a sturdy curving point is best suited to (judging by the knives displayed) vs americanized-tanto or drop-point etc.?


I think we all assumed that your primary weapons were fire-arms.

 

[Nternal]

I think that you also have to take into account how dramatic the tanto shape is. Not all tanto points are created equal.. I have a zt 0400 and it has a needle point..It's not as "blunt" a shape of tanto.

 

[Edwood7]

Edwood7,
Thank you for the tactical assessment :thumbup:
If I interpret correctly, your preferred technique - a well-placed stab - is specifically aimed at neutralizing a target and removing it from line of site to expedite putting a bead on other potential targets. Slashing is usually less efficient at accomplishing this....

But this is a task you can accomplish equally well with any tip-design? Or that a sturdy curving point is best suited to (judging by the knives displayed) vs americanized-tanto or drop-point etc.?


I think we all assumed that your primary weapons were fire-arms.

A longer curved blade will penetrate deeper and go around hard obstacles it may encounter like the edge of a Kevlar vest or rib bones, I know this is going to sound creepy but there is no better way of getting a feel for it than training on a pig, Bill the Butcher style. (he wasn’t the inspiration, my dad was, he is a real pro when it comes to butchering)
That’s what sum of the new guy that come in to the team get to train whit, when edge weapons are address as part of the introduction part of CQC training. We take them to the rastro ( meat packing plant ) and have them try out some of the techniques and knives they think work on a hanging dead pig, needless to say the most of them change they knife preferences and stop using a lot of what they thought worked.