Uses of a Tanto.

[The Government]

Is there any info on that picture, or was it for dramatic effect?

 

[Edwood7]

Is there any info on that picture, or was it for dramatic effect?

It’s an example we show the new guys than have some blade training, (Filipino style or military basic knife combat) that think slashing cuts can stop an attacker immediately. As you can see the human body can take a lot of damage and still keep going, the victim in this picture survived the attack and as you can see is still conscious after that much damage to his back. I don’t have the complete story on that picture; I think the victim was a prisoner in a state penitentiary in the US.



Here is another one

Teenager Yassin Elmansouri was jailed today for an attack which left a young lad with a five inch knife in his head.

The 16-year-old victim cheated death and was rushed to hospital with the kitchen knife still stuck in his forehead after the attack in Walworth, south London, last November.

Shocking x-ray images (above) taken at the time showed the blade wedged into the teenager's head.

The boy has since recovered and although he requires regular hospital checks, it is believed he has started college.

 

[The Government]

Thanks for explaining that.:thumbup:

 

[Thingus995]

My .02 as an "enlightened sheeple" (meaning non-LEO/military/weapons expert) regarding the self defense/tactical or survival knife, are that whatever knife you happen to have with you, is the best defense/tactical or survival knife... I am not in a position like Edwood is, where I must pick my knife for the mission, and if that was the case, I most certainly would use a fixed blade for ease and speed of deployment (that's a whole 'nother topic though).

That being said, I do pick my knives with the above philosophy in mind and pick blades that are sturdy, and wouldn't leave me high and dry should SHTF. To me, that means a belly of some sort as I feel they cut better for my needs, and that should I need a blade for defensive purposes, my primary concern would actually be getting that blade deployed.

Regards,
-Jack

 

[Nathan Ihrke]

Boy, I bet that x-ray felt great seeing how they tell you to take off all metal before you get one

 

[stabman]

if you know and understand how blades cut flesh then you'll know why it's more deadly than most other styles.

No it isn't.
Not in the least.

 

[fishface5]

I like an americanized tanto as a hard work knife, because the strong tip means it's good for scraping and prying while the straight edge can be kept sharp for slicing. So you get several tools in one. And man I was really glad for my Kobun on a multi-day mountain hike when we came to a squatter's cabin and found canned goods someone left behind!

For self-defense, I remember reading "possum's" posts about killing racoons with knives on his farm, and how he found that the most important aspect was a needle-sharp tip. So that's the opposite of the americanized tanto. For instance the Snody Ronin - short wharncliff blade with needle tip - is supposed to be excellent for slashing and stabbing; however the very characteristics that make it so suitable for gutting enemies makes it pretty weak as a hard work knife.

 

[Nternal]

I like an americanized tanto as a hard work knife, because the strong tip means it's good for scraping and prying while the straight edge can be kept sharp for slicing. So you get several tools in one. And man I was really glad for my Kobun on a multi-day mountain hike when we came to a squatter's cabin and found canned goods someone left behind!

For self-defense, I remember reading "possum's" posts about killing racoons with knives on his farm, and how he found that the most important aspect was a needle-sharp tip. So that's the opposite of the americanized tanto. For instance the Snody Ronin - short wharncliff blade with needle tip - is supposed to be excellent for slashing and stabbing; however the very characteristics that make it so suitable for gutting enemies makes it pretty weak as a hard work knife.

But there are some very pointy tantos.

 

[40Degrees]

No it isn't.
Not in the least.

your opinion or fact? I can't think of any other normal type of blade shape that would be used as an edc that would be more deadly than tanto.

sure you got your hawkbills. but, not very useful in normal every day tasks.

 

[Edwood7]

your opinion or fact? I can't think of any other normal type of blade shape that would be used as an edc that would be more deadly than tanto.

sure you got your hawkbills. but, not very useful in normal every day tasks.

What does more deadly mean ?
What make the tanto shape more deadly ?
Do you mean it can kill you faster or more painfully ?

I think a dagger is almost the perfect killing knife but it’s just no good as a utility blade. That’s why I go for the single edge curved long knife.

 

[40Degrees]

What does more deadly mean ?
What make the tanto shape more deadly ?
Do you mean it can kill you faster or more painfully ?

I think a dagger is almost the perfect killing knife but it’s just no good as a utility blade. That’s why I go for the single edge curved long knife.

daggers would be wonderful...if they were legal to carry.

more deadly as in the wounds they will cause from various slash cuts.

I mean with tanto you're presenting more cutting surface from the angle of the point for those slash cuts thus creating a larger/deeper wound.

faster or more painful? idk. but, I think the right cut would really hurt and kill someone fast.

I'm not trying to rewrite any books. I know there have been some on the subject matter. Plus, I'd rather not try and tell someone how they should kill another person on this forum...if you don't mind.

 

[chiral.grolim]

...more deadly as in the wounds they will cause from various slash cuts.

I mean with tanto you're presenting more cutting surface from the angle of the point for those slash cuts thus creating a larger/deeper wound.

faster or more painful? idk. but, I think the right cut would really hurt and kill someone fast.

This is hypothetical, and a major flaw is the inaccurate assumption that slash cuts are the most deadly. Human anatomy is arranged such that the body can withstand a significant amount of slice-cutting over most of the surface (including into muscle groups) without disablement or major damage, and the location of most major blood-vessels is not easily accessible excepting only the jugular. In general, slice-cuts are majority less-lethal than stabs which penetrate the outer layers and can traumatize vital internal organs. Compare bullet trajectory - into the body vs. grazing the surface.

Now, there are more pain-receptors and pressure-sensors located along the surface, rendering surface-cuts significantly painful and obnoxious, which may be sufficient to send an offender running... but the point is that he/she can run away, i.e. is still alive, whereas a stab to the heart, aorta or vena cava, brain, lung, kidney, liver, diaphragm, or even simply the quadricep can have an immediately or only slightly delayed disabling or lethal effect.

I posted this on the page just previous:

Defensively, slashing can (depending on their resolve) keep an offender at a distance and even a small wound (slight depth) may suffice as deterrent. A slash has the potential to create a much larger wound area than a stab with the same weapon and so requires less skill at targeting. Slashing also keeps the 'slasher' in motion, such that a blow may be dealt without having to pause and withdraw from a plunge.
A slash must be either decently placed or of significant depth to actually disable the offender instantaneously, and especially so to be immediately lethal. Thick clothing and/or body-armor effectively prevent penetration of most hand-delivered disabling slashes from knives.

Stabbing functions for maximum penetration depth over an area as large as the blade-tip, but this area increases if the stab is curved/twisted internally. This requires good placement/targeting of the blade if the tip is rather narrow (a hole punch). This requires greater skill and/or closer, prolonged contact with the target (or even greater skill if the target is in motion, just like sniping) in order to achieve proper placement and depth of penetration.
However, an effective stab with a knife can be accomplished around or even through body armor and other defenses, and can be immediately lethal.

And Edwood7's empirical offering and photo-support:

A longer curved blade will penetrate deeper and go around hard obstacles it may encounter like the edge of a Kevlar vest or rib bones...


...an example we show the new guys than have some blade training, (Filipino style or military basic knife combat) that think slashing cuts can stop an attacker immediately. As you can see the human body can take a lot of damage and still keep going, the victim in this picture survived the attack and as you can see is still conscious after that much damage to his back...

*shrug*

 

[Thingus995]

Great post ^^

 

[40Degrees]

This is hypothetical, and a major flaw is the inaccurate assumption that slash cuts are the most deadly.

just to clarify I never said slash cuts were the "most" deadly. was only saying that slash cuts from a "tanto" shaped blade would be more deadly than another edc type blade. that was the ? that was asked.

certainly, if someone got stabbed in a bad spot they would die very fast. just about any blade that has a point on it and is relatively straight is capable of doing that with equal effectiveness...including a "tanto" shaped blade. plus, I think it goes w/o any explanation how strong the tip of a good tanto is for penetration.

 

[stabman]

your opinion or fact?

Fact backed up by literally tons of corpses over the centuries.

 

[hkpokes_you]

I think there are two types of benefit to the American Tanto...

The first type of benefit stems from the tip design. You can use the tip as a chisel, pry, or punch in ways that most knives can't. Also, in a defensive encounter, you can deliver a nice snap-cut with the junction between the main edge and the front facet; it's easy to learn how to do this - not all that easy to defend against - and let's you keep some distance between you and the bad-guy. If the frontal geometry is well thought out, you can have a pretty capable knife.

The second advantage to the design -- it's inherently optimized for modern stock-removal based manufacturing techniques. And when people call this 'cutting corners' they are oversimplifying. If someone puts significantly less time and resources into the construction of one knife -- and prices it like a more complex knife that uses the same materials -- they are either taking a loss for the undervalued knife, or charging too much on the overvalued one.

What does this mean for the customer? It means that in a market where pricing is fair and transparent the American tanto definitely has a role to play. All things being equal -- an Americanized Tanto will cost someone less than - say - a similarly sized Bowie or dagger. Or - put it this way - if you want to pay the same amount on a Tanto or a Dagger - you can get more expensive materials if you order the less-complex Tanto. Everyone's pricing is different, but given my materials and techniques, you could probably go from a Bowie in 1084FG to a chisel ground Tanto in CPM M4 and pay about the same. Whether you'd want to? Totally up to you. But there is a market for both.

Gives new meaning to Americanized, huh? : )

 

[CWL]

Edwood7 is an Operator, he does't just play one on the internet.

I would tend to believe him because of his experiences and training over anyone who chooses knives because they like how they look. Any of you guys do High Risk entries and CQB against drug cartel gunmen with a tomahawk before?

 

[Edwood7]

I took these stills from the System of strategy DVD by James Williams. Very informative stuff on the DVD, I highly recommend it.


Examples of Americanized tanto points, a benchmade folder and coldsteel fixed blade.

A comparison, between a tradition Japanese sword point (made for penetrating body armor and as a slashing blade) and the Americanized tanto points.

A full force downward stab whit the benchmade on a piece of plywood where you can see that there is not much penetration.

A full force downward stab whit a hissatsu folder on the same piece of plywood where you can see the full penetration of the knife.

 

[Edwood7]

I have tried this test myself and the results are the same, if given the choice i would take the traditional point over the Americanized tanto. I think anyone who is really going to be in a situation wear they are going to be using their blade as a weapon will take the traditional tanto point.
I can see wear the American tanto point can be useful as a tool, but anyone who has ever quartered a dear or carved a turkey can tell you what blade shape is better for slicing trough meat.





Traditional carving knife ( looks like a small katana to me)

 

[stoffi]

Edwood7 is an Operator, he does't just play one on the internet.

I would tend to believe him because of his experiences and training over anyone who chooses knives because they like how they look. Any of you guys do High Risk entries and CQB against drug cartel gunmen with a tomahawk before?

So you'd rather follow an authoritative figure than reason on your own?

Just because somebody owns a gas-station it doesn't make them an expert on ceramic brake compounds or on how Coca-Cola mixes it's drinks.

He's got an opinion like everybody else and as it so happens, I agree with him.