Very Bummed with Spyderco's Warranty (again).

[orthogonal1]

...
If the knife in question was a CS we'd have dozens frothing at the mouth about CS's 'crappy' customer service etc. etc.

True.

I wonder if the whole experience was made simply as an attempt to get a "perfect" knife cheap.

Looks like the OP knew the blade was off-center from the get go, so paid less and attempted to get Spyderco to make the knife "right".

 

[Dorito Monk]

If having the big boss offering his help personally is not Golden service, not sure what is.

IMHO, Getting it right the FIRST time is what I'd call 'golden service,' not forcing a customer to post about his bad experiences on Bladeforums before the company finally agrees to help. "The squeakiest wheel gets the grease" doesn't strike me as good CS.

 

[myowngod]

Any large production company.. I mean ANY... will have a few items slip past QC.. and will have to tolerate a certain margin of error to have an efficient production line... if you want perfect QC, buy a CRK, otherwise the next best thing is to have a company willing to correct anything that does slip past QC. Spyderco and Kershaw (no personal experience with BM) are both openly willing to do this, and that makes them special... This one incident is nothing to judge the company by...

 

[unit]

I guess I am a fanboy or something?

First off. Most if not all of the stories posted here involve some sort of problem like liner rub or blade play....my question is was it there the day you bought it new? If so, why did you not return it to the dealer you bought it from (immediately). If not, then it must have developed over time and I would possibly classify as wear and tear...sorry, but IMO that is not something that I expect to be handled under warranty in many cases. If it can be repaired...I would consider it a high level of CS for the company to repair if free and use my money to ship it back!

Secondly, Spyderco makes knives...many of the knives are made in factories that are not in Golden, Colorado and perhaps they do not include in their sales enough margin to buy up and store a big pile of spare parts for the knives that they have discontinued over the years (if I was making knives, I sure wouldn't).

So, lets put ourselves into a manufacturers shoes for a second. A guy calls you up and reports a problem with a knife. You have no way of really knowing what he/she is talking about (your wealth of experience dictates that (perhaps) many of these sorts of calls are about issues that really are not related to defects...perhaps many are related to abuse or ignorance...it happens). So you request to have a look at the knife because inspection is the only way to be sure WTF is the matter...at this point ask yourself, "am I going to cover shipping on every such call?" I bet a large number of these problems are not really a big enough problem for consumers to risk their own 5 bucks to learn the difference between "ignorance" and "defect". Perhaps this is a bad policy in your opinion, personally, it is a rule I can live with...and it is going to make me that much more DILIGENT in including instructions with the knife explaining EXACTLY what I see as a problem.

Disclaimer: ignorance is not a bad thing it is a real thing. Allowing a tight action or lock to "break in" is an example that not everyone knows about. Another example might be figuring out how to center your own blade on a military that is off center as a result of you running over the knife with a full wheelbarrow in the yard (warranty?). These sorts of things are NOT defects, and they are typically easy to fix. THESE are the sorts of things that *I* as a manufacturer would not want to be paying for the shipping on!

I will grant every single person reading this that I have never had an issue with CS/warranty repairs. Perhaps Spyderco has some developing issues? I am not going to claim one way or the other, but so far what I have seen posted I just do not have enough solid info to be convinced that Spyderco DOES have a problem.

I am not jumping to defend a company here. The company seems pretty clear on the rules and policies...that as far as I can tell they have not changed. I am very interested in this thread, and I have (I believe) a very open mind on the discussion. If you have done everything in accordance with the directions Spyderco CS provides and with a healthy dose of diligence and common sense, PLEASE post your story (good or bad).

Regarding the "one time replacement" that some have reported receiving. I view this sort of "good will concession" to be fairly common among companies that are making a concerted effort to please customers. I have run into VERY few that do not explain that this sort of concession is a one time deal. This verbiage hopefully conveys the concept that, "hey, your particular situation is sort of outside the box, we are doing what we can to help you out, perhaps because we find ourselves in a unique position to do so, but do not expect it in the future because it is in fact pretty special, and for crying out loud we do not want every Tom, Dick and Harry on the web expecting to get a free knife because you did!" It surprises me when I hear this sort of topic posted as a negative thing (they issued a replacement that was not requested in a (perhaps) gray area of the warranty...I would expect happiness and gratitude).

Hope this post does not aggravate anyone. I am trying to take a fair view (in my mind). Sometimes these things seem one sided, but if you put yourself in the position of the company (and try to comprehend some of the "issues" they have to deal with), your view point may change slightly.

Honest, legitimate complaints probably comprise 25% of the complaints we see in customer service for the products we deal with, I am not suggesting that Spyderco deals with the same percentages, but when you see 3 out of 4 people (like I do) presenting a product for retail return or warranty that has obviously been abused willfully, you start to understand why some companies suggest you pay shipping just in case yours is not a defect.

 

[HardUse]

I guess I am a fanboy or something?

First off. Most if not all of the stories posted here involve some sort of problem like liner rub or blade play....my question is was it there the day you bought it new? If so, why did you not return it to the dealer you bought it from (immediately). If not, then it must have developed over time and I would possibly classify as wear and tear...sorry, but IMO that is not something that I expect to be handled under warranty in many cases. If it can be repaired...I would consider it a high level of CS for the company to repair if free and use my money to ship it back!

Secondly, Spyderco makes knives...many of the knives are made in factories that are not in Golden, Colorado and perhaps they do not include in their sales enough margin to buy up and store a big pile of spare parts for the knives that they have discontinued over the years (if I was making knives, I sure wouldn't).

So, lets put ourselves into a manufacturers shoes for a second. A guy calls you up and reports a problem with a knife. You have no way of really knowing what he/she is talking about (your wealth of experience dictates that (perhaps) many of these sorts of calls are about issues that really are not related to defects...perhaps many are related to abuse or ignorance...it happens). So you request to have a look at the knife because inspection is the only way to be sure WTF is the matter...at this point ask yourself, "am I going to cover shipping on every such call?" I bet a large number of these problems are not really a big enough problem for consumers to risk their own 5 bucks to learn the difference between "ignorance" and "defect". Perhaps this is a bad policy in your opinion, personally, it is a rule I can live with...and it is going to make me that much more DILIGENT in including instructions with the knife explaining EXACTLY what I see as a problem.

Disclaimer: ignorance is not a bad thing it is a real thing. Allowing a tight action or lock to "break in" is an example that not everyone knows about. Another example might be figuring out how to center your own blade on a military that is off center as a result of you running over the knife with a full wheelbarrow in the yard (warranty?). These sorts of things are NOT defects, and they are typically easy to fix. THESE are the sorts of things that *I* as a manufacturer would not want to be paying for the shipping on!

I will grant every single person reading this that I have never had an issue with CS/warranty repairs. Perhaps Spyderco has some developing issues? I am not going to claim one way or the other, but so far what I have seen posted I just do not have enough solid info to be convinced that Spyderco DOES have a problem.

I am not jumping to defend a company here. The company seems pretty clear on the rules and policies...that as far as I can tell they have not changed. I am very interested in this thread, and I have (I believe) a very open mind on the discussion. If you have done everything in accordance with the directions Spyderco CS provides and with a healthy dose of diligence and common sense, PLEASE post your story (good or bad).

Regarding the "one time replacement" that some have reported receiving. I view this sort of "good will concession" to be fairly common among companies that are making a concerted effort to please customers. I have run into VERY few that do not explain that this sort of concession is a one time deal. This verbiage hopefully conveys the concept that, "hey, your particular situation is sort of outside the box, we are doing what we can to help you out, perhaps because we find ourselves in a unique position to do so, but do not expect it in the future because it is in fact pretty special, and for crying out loud we do not want every Tom, Dick and Harry on the web expecting to get a free knife because you did!" It surprises me when I hear this sort of topic posted as a negative thing (they issued a replacement that was not requested in a (perhaps) gray area of the warranty...I would expect happiness and gratitude).

Hope this post does not aggravate anyone. I am trying to take a fair view (in my mind). Sometimes these things seem one sided, but if you put yourself in the position of the company (and try to comprehend some of the "issues" they have to deal with), your view point may change slightly.

Honest, legitimate complaints probably comprise 25% of the complaints we see in customer service for the products we deal with, I am not suggesting that Spyderco deals with the same percentages, but when you see 3 out of 4 people (like I do) presenting a product for retail return or warranty that has obviously been abused willfully, you start to understand why some companies suggest you pay shipping just in case yours is not a defect.

And what about the customers who just want their knife fixed, offer to pay any reasonable amount to fix it, pay the amount, then get their knife back in worse shape?

 

[unit]

And what about the customers who just want their knife fixed, offer to pay any reasonable amount to fix it, pay the amount, then get their knife back in worse shape?

I thought I was clear on that?

Please post up the details...so far this is the detail you have provided:

I am extremely pissed off at Spyderco warranty for the shoddy job they did on my knife. Letting simple things slip through and basically sending me an unchecked knife with EXTRA damage. I still love Spyderco knives but am very wary of their warranty now. My knife still needs to be fixed, I'm out $35, and there is extra wear and damage now. Very dissapointing. Especially on a knife with over $250 MSRP.

Well, as an update, my advice is just sell your knives or chuck them at a wall. Spyderco warranty will blatantly lie to your face, make excuses, and values a little bit of time over retaining customers. I tried to get my knife fixed again and was lied to repeatedly about it's condition. They tried to play off the fact that they overtightened my knife and stripped a screw, didn't even put the washers back in(because they stripped the screw). Now I am stuck with a $200+ knife that barely functions and I can't trust it. Can't fix it myself now either, can only sell it for a HUGE loss or I can chuck it at a wall. The third option is very temping.

You seem very passionate in your post, but there is really insufficient detail for anyone to make much of an informed opinion regarding on how fairly you were treated. No offense intended, but could you share details? Perhaps I missed something...apologies if that is the case.

I am not sure I understand what you have tried to say so far, Spyderco stripped your screw? and because of this they did not put washers back in? What model knife?, what was the issue? What was the condition of the knife when you returned it?

 

[orthogonal1]

And what about the customers who just want their knife fixed, offer to pay any reasonable amount to fix it, pay the amount, then get their knife back in worse shape?

That is a legit gripe.

But in all honesty, how often does such a thing occur?

 

[huugh]

I guess you missed this part at the top of Page 3:

If having the big boss offering his help personally is not Golden service, not sure what is.

?
Did I miss the sudden merger between Michaelmcgo and spiralarchitec, for example?

There certainly seems to be issues in customer service department. Boss's attention to one specific knife with problems is nice, system solution, i.e. reviewing CS activity, would be even nicer.

 

[RevDevil]

IMHO, Getting it right the FIRST time is what I'd call 'golden service,' not forcing a customer to post about his bad experiences on Bladeforums before the company finally agrees to help. "The squeakiest wheel gets the grease" doesn't strike me as good CS.

I understand and fully respect your opinion. But there is a bigger picture here that seems to be evading some. The last thing I will say on this:

When was the last time the owner and president of ANYTHING offered to personally look at something that was possible mishandled? I've worked in customer service before, and not all my dealings went smoothly. But, I can guarantee you that my boss at the time, was (in his mind) so far above all us CSRs to even look our way much less take a call from someone in need of assistance.

I agree getting it right the first time is important. Luckily, I got my CF natives (2 of them) right the first time. I'm also not necessarily trying to promote the "man up and deal with it" approach. I like getting my knives is great shape too.

I don't see how anything was exactly forced on anyone here though? In the real world, the squeaky wheel does get the grease, that is why people complain about things. In this case, Sal is making an offer to help, he doesn't have to do anything if he does not choose to. But he is obviously concerned enough to address it personally. Does that not count for anything in your world? Who is to say that any issues going on with the CS department are not already being addressed? We do not know.

I'm done. Onto PB&J thoughts!

 

[Josh K]

That is a legit gripe.

But in all honesty, how often does such a thing occur?

I'm really not sure.

?
Did I miss the sudden merger between Michaelmcgo and spiralarchitec, for example?

There certainly seems to be issues in customer service department. Boss's attention to one specific knife with problems is nice, system solution, i.e. reviewing CS activity, would be even nicer.

I've never had an issue with their CS. Then again, I don't send me knife back for stupid things.

 

[presz]

The nasty note that was shipped back bothers me as much as the service problems. I think their warranty needs to say only good on made in the USA models. It keeps me from buying the other than USA models.

 

[2brothers]

I've never had an issue with their CS. Then again, I don't send me knife back for stupid things.

That is pretty much a kick to the face of those that feel they have legitimate problems even though you think of them as stupid.

Shiny footprints and all that.

 

[Josh K]

That is pretty much a kick to the face of those that feel they have legitimate problems even though you think of them as stupid.

Shiny footprints and all that.

Knives are warrantied against manufacturing defects. If you buy the knife second hand it becomes hard to tell who's at fault.

For what looks like a little liner rub, I don't think that would warranty sending it back.

I don't mean it as a kick in the face.

 

[midnight flyer]

I've never had an issue with their CS. Then again, I don't send me knife back for stupid things.

Wow....

That is pretty much a kick to the face of those that feel they have legitimate problems even though you think of them as stupid.

No kidding. Nice, deep dig. That seemed pretty sanctimonious for someone that hasn't held the knife in question, checked the walk and talk in person, and hasn't been able to see for himself the actual fit and finish.

Impressive skillset to be able to bring all that into play by reading a few posts and looking over a knife on a computer screen.

Plus the fact that you can completely, entirely disregard another's opinion of what is acceptable and what is not.

As a sidebar, since Sal offered (as he has so many times in the past) to look into it after reading and seeing the same posts you have, if he saw something that concerned him that you didn't.

Maybe not.

Robert

 

[HardUse]

I thought I was clear on that?

Please post up the details...so far this is the detail you have provided:





You seem very passionate in your post, but there is really insufficient detail for anyone to make much of an informed opinion regarding on how fairly you were treated. No offense intended, but could you share details? Perhaps I missed something...apologies if that is the case.

I am not sure I understand what you have tried to say so far, Spyderco stripped your screw? and because of this they did not put washers back in? What model knife?, what was the issue? What was the condition of the knife when you returned it?

Well I wasn't trying to hijack the thread but since it has turned into an overall Spyderco warranty thread I add my input. I bought a Civilian new over the internet. The blade was aligned almost into the metal liner. It almost felt and looked like it would rub when I opened it. I tried calling Spyderco to get their input but nobody answered the phone, so I just sent it in. I was called and told somebody had dissassembled it. I said, well it is supposed to be new and looks perfectly new to me, I didn't want to go through the hassle of returning it etc. I simply asked, can you fix it to original condition? Here's my CC # charge away as long as you can fix it. Fast forward to when I get it back. Blade is still off center, not as bad as before but still near the liner side. Knife was gritty and didn't open good. Opening and closing it made marks on the tang, in particular in one spot. I looked at the knife at that spot and the screw to the backspacer/lock was stripped in the same area. Badly as in it doesn't look like a Torx hole anymore. While I may have been able to live with the stripped screw, let's keep in mind this is a Civilian. A knife I would generally trust my life on if I actually needed to use it. Therefore I need the opening/closing/action to be smooth.

I called again and tried to resolve this with Spyderco before I voiced what had happened to me. The CS rep basically got nervous and said she did all she could with my knife. I pressed her on the matter of the grittiness and stripped screw. She said she had put my knife all back together and to simply use oil. I already tried that so I said OK fine, let's move on to the screw. She did let me know she tried to remove the screw but said it was too tight and she couldn't remove it. She wouldn't admit to stripping it, but with the way it's stripped now there is no way anyone could attempt to loosen it with how it is. I asked her if ANYTHING could be done to remove it. She gave me a bunch of stuff about it would take too long etc to drill/tap it, nothing could be done. She then said I could send it in again, but they wouldn't be able to do anything to it. I then asked one final time, so is there anything you can do, or am I basically stuck with this? She then told me again, I could send it in, but they probably wouldn't do anything. With that I said OK, Thank You and ended the call.

With Spyderco saying they couldn't do anything I decided to take the blade out and see what was wrong with it. Inside I found the tang very scratched up and no washers inside, after having just talked with the CS rep, and she had specifically mentioned she put the knife all back together properly, and even mentioned she had put the washers back in. What probably happened was she stripped the screw when she tried to put the washers back in, so she just put it back together and sent it to me like that, and told me it was fine. I would have rather been notified, I would have paid extra to have it done right.

I had been lied to, had my money taken, and been returned a knife in sub par condition. I really love Spyderco's knives and most of their company ethics, but as a customer I feel wronged. This has put a severe halt to my Spyderco enthusiasm. I didn't want to bash them but with so many other people having problems, and people questioning my problems, there is my story.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi hard use,

The girls in CS do not take apart knives. They might add a clip. Repairs go to the the factory for disassembly. I doubt that our factory knife makers would strip a screw and try to hide it. How long ago was this?

The biggest problem, by far, that we have in customer service is people taking apart knives that they are not qualified to take apart. Then they put them together and don't have the knowledge or experience to know that it isn't put together correctly. Then they sell it as "new in the box" because they think it is. But it isn't. Often they should be thrown away.

The cost to repair knives like this exceed the cost of making the knife in the first place by triple. Most customers object to that kind of repair cost. Stripped screws, parts left out, damage done because they weren't assembled properly, is a real PITA to deal with. Shop time for a skilled maker is more than $50/hr. We lose money of every knife we repair. The cost charged is just a nominal service charge.

We always do our best to please our customers in CS, and I'm sure that our positive responses are 1,000 to one over unhappy customers. Sorry that we have a few here.

sal

 

[cj65]

Hard Use,
You may want to make sure that you bought the "New" in box knife from a factory authorized dealer. I bet that would have prevented you from getting a knife that had been taken apart and put back together wrong. I am fascinated with how many people take apart knives, put them back together and then have problems. Now, the problem is supposed to be on the manufacturer. It is just not good business. I would have taken up the issue with the dealer, not the manufacturer first. I am sure CS for Spyderco is dealing with many calls/tickets per day per employee. Somewhere the line of communication broke down, but I am sure there many more happy customers who quietly went on their way than unsatisfied people who shout out how much they were wronged. I think you deserve some recompense for a knife bought new, but the onus is on the dealer you bought it from. Repairing that knife, is a lost cause for the manufacturer, cheaper to replace. I hope you post in the GBU forum of the dealer you bought that knife from.

As far as the OP goes, I hope you are not trying to claim that the warranty rules are nebulous, and you bought a second party Spyderco knife with confidence that Spyderco would make a rainbow for you if the second hand knife was not factory new or not up to your specifications.

 

[berserk87]

I am amazed that the warranty would apply to second owners. I can't think of too many products for which this would apply.

This places liability on the company for much potential tampering or mis-use by the original owner. It also makes for one of the broadest warranties of any company doing business.

I also don't know of any companies in which someone would lodge a complaint on an outside message board, only to have the owner of the company reply and offer reconciliation.

I have always heard "it's an awfully flat pancake that doesn't have two sides". We have heard from only one party to each transaction in the posts above, so it's very hard to judge based on that what has really gone on. Some of our forumites are condemning Spyderco based on one side of a story. It would be shameful if our legal system worked this way.

I just went through a warranty issue with Spyderco. I was treated better than I ever have in my life by any company in my life (no exaggeration), and the transaction exceeded my expectations. This doesn't mean that their customer service is infalliable, but after my experience I would want their side of the story before I would state that I would reconsider buying one of their knives.

 

[Jake Bauer]

We always do our best to please our customers in CS, and I'm sure that our positive responses are 1,000 to one over unhappy customers. Sorry that we have a few here.

sal

I second that. I've been hanging around this forum for a couple years, and this is the first I've ever heard with someone having beef with Spyderco's customer service. And it seems to me, that Sal's taken care of it. This thread should have ended there.

 

[Mr. Dull Edge]

@Michaelmcgo
It seems like So-Lo is busting your chops when you have been nothing but cool to him. Almost like he is rubbing it in your face that he traded you this knife.
I hope you get this blade all taken care of. I just had to send back in a CAT for a very weak lock up. They ended up sending me out a brand new one. I had no problems at all with spyderco CS.
Keep up the good work Sal.