Viet Nam Hawk Negatives

Just wondering, you guys that don't like the spike because it may hit you on the backswing, what do you use to hammer nails with?
Do you have the same attitude/fear of the claw on a hammer?
 
To be fair when you analyze most of the movements concerning axes, hatchets and tomahawks the swing is further and wider (bigger & faster arc) than compared with a hammer.Different energy requirements have different actions and different design function (hawks are designed for fast and repeated strikes hence relative light weight). Like rolling a bowling ball with full force compared with rolling a baseball at full force. Your whole body action is different.

Secondly in axes/tomahawks sometimes the axe blade sticks to the target and pulling out results in a rebounding of the spike to you. Strictly speaking you should not just tug at it blindly but in emergency the body just reacts (hence the need for repeated training as i stressed earlier). Also sometimes you strike some items the hawks rebound back. A hammer's rebound is not as risky as a hawks rebound.

True I personally have almost been hit with the claw of a hammer when hammering a particularly difficult to enter nail but in that case I should use a different hammer (the hammer efficiency is not enough hence rebound in this case however not for all cases) or just accept that the nail ain't going in. However you should not view the hammer scenario as similar with a tomahawk scenario. Hawks with their relatively light weight is designed partly for quick action so the rebound is a definite risk.

PS: any peeps who disagree will have to agree to disagree.
PSPS: Sorry for being long winded, I find it difficult to express myself in English.
 
Dwight McLemore said:
Led4Them:
That was really an enlightening comment. Really contributed to the thread.
Click to expand...

It was not a contribution, it was a question, that was answered by Cotherion(thanks). You don't like me asking a q in your thread? Oh, it's Armydoc's thread.

Here is why I ask, when using mine, (and a claw hammer) I tend to angle my body so that my backswing is over my shoulder angled away from my face, not squared to the object that is being struck. I have never hit myself on a backswing,I have however missed and nearly hit myself on a forward swing. So I am wondering how someone else is positioning themselves.
 
led4them, I have not realized that I position myself somewhat squared to my face when hammering. Taking a hammer to experimentally hammer a nail I realized that I did it subconsciously. Further self analysis showed me that I did it to avoid bending the nail due to not-so-parallel strikes. Then I tried to back swing over my shoulder which gave me more force since i could swing wider now but I bent a few nails in the process. My conclusion is that I needed practice and some thanks to led4them for this little tip. Nails everywhere beware!

PS: I automatically/subconsciously back swing over my shoulder when using the axe/tomahawk. PErhaps my body know what to do when my brain does not?

PSPS: Any questions no matter how weird/senseless/simple (not implying that this is the case now) is in my opinion welcome in this forum. As long as the INTENTION of the person asking is noble we should not fault the method. Even if we suspect the question is sarcastic it is polite to assume it is not unless proven or obvious. Difficult to do so but it is proper and we should strive to be proper.

PSPSPS: I'm not being critical to Mr. Dwight McLemore. My rant is general. I enjoyed/welcome his valuable insight/knowledge so far in this forum. Same as anyone else's input. Perspective is valuable to me.
 
Do you have the same attitude/fear of the claw on a hammer?

This is what provoked the response. On first view it appears to be a "smart ass" remark. If not, no problem ......... I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. To answer the question: Yes, I probably do have the same concerns about anything pointed back toward me. Now that's my experience, you guys that have the skill and confidence to handle a back spike, go for it buddy.... enjoy your weapon and training. I fully support your initiative, just don't hand me something with a back spike on it and expect me to go 'Ga Ga' over it. For me at this late stage in life I really don't want to loose an eye or get my ribs gouged again.

Best
Dwight
 
You either dig it or you don't as some might say.

Most important thing in choosing a weapon or equipment which to rely on depends on 'gut feeling' methinks. If you just don't feel right then just choose another option. If someone handed me a weapon/equipment that does not 'feel' right then I wouldn't be at my best. Doesn't matter even if my personal choice is inferior.

Dwight's concern is in the risk in anything offensive pointing in his direction. Be it claw on a hammer, spike hawk, double edged sword and maybe even the double edged axe. Each to his own.

Personally i'll take anything as anything has it's advantages. Earlier posts in this thread spoke about the pros of the non-spiked hawks with the follow through by twisting the hawk. The spike has the benifit as a climbing tool or helmet ventilator. Therefore I'll take both and just think of them as different tools for different jobs and it's up to me to master them.
 
In Martial arts when someone pulls you push.
If they push you pull.
The disadvantage of the back spike is in CQB and how it can be used against you.
 
Depending on your style the lack of a back side offensive for your weapon could be an advantage or detriment to you. All depends on attacking style and training.

The disadvantage in any CQB is ANYTHING can be used against you. I agree that an untrained person battling with a Vietnam hawk is greatly at risk so in the general case it may be that the spike hawk is not suitable for the general populace I concede.

However the design and concept of the Lagana Vietnam Hawk is different from other hawks in a sense it is a hawk for a time of war where it's main use is in modern war. The spike is designed not only as a weapon it is also a tool. That was what the late Mr. Lagana had in mind when he designed it.

The beard of the Lagana hawk is and can be further sharpened. If bereft of certain attacking styles due to the spike there still exists other arrays of moves you may not be aware of which takes advantage of the Vietnam Hawks design.

In Martial arts there exist many many kinds of weapons and a majority (nunchaku, double-edge sword, chain, spiked mace, morningstar, etc...) can smack a person in the face if done improperly. If one want an idiot-proof weapon then don't go for these weapons and stick with the old point and bang!
 
I cut the spike off of my nam hawk.I was sick of dodging it with my head while chopping limbs and brush.I left a small bit on the back and sanded it flat so I have a small hammer poll.
 
led4them said:
Just wondering, you guys that don't like the spike because it may hit you on the backswing, what do you use to hammer nails with?
Do you have the same attitude/fear of the claw on a hammer?
Click to expand...

I agree...
This 'fear' strikes me (sorry, no pun intended) the same way as guys who warn about shooting a .44 magnum because they had the hammer hit them in the forehead during recoil...

Perhaps the hawk fighter needs to practice using a new stance?
 
savagesicslayer said:
I cut the spike off of my nam hawk.I was sick of dodging it with my head while chopping limbs and brush.I left a small bit on the back and sanded it flat so I have a small hammer poll.
Click to expand...


that's a good idea, bro savage'...!


i mod'd a CS Viet Nam hawk this week to try it on a hiking staff i made.

sort of an improvisation of a compromise ...har...!

bt3.jpg


some folks like 'em.

i would like to see a Viet Nam hawk made about 2/3 current mass - i think that'd be nice ...maybe other 'Nam-style hawks are not as heavy (?) - i only have experience with the Cold Steels so far.

i'd like to do one with a 24 inch handle ...shorter doesn't work for me with a head that heavy.


i live near a desert, and i think the spike has some potential as a pick for hard ground.

also good for getting into a wet log for dry fuel on a rained-out "roughing it" weekend....

YMMV

vec
 
Like the idea... i have more use for a tactical walking stick instead of a Vietnam hawk. Perhaps a handle which could be detached (approx 1/2 length) to make it shorter when required vector001? Assuming the bottom end of the walking hawk is a pointy and solidly built (like for walking in icy condition) then when detached you have a stabbing stick and tomahawk when required.

An issue would be the joint section will have to be solidly made so it wouldn't buckle under usage as walking stick and easy (fast) enough to detach in an emergency.

Just an idea. Tell me what you think?
 
Victor001. Man I like 'the hell' out of that. Not only is it functional for bad knees but sure looks to be a real 'playing field leveler'. Good job.

Best
Dwight
 
Around Hungary they have for centuries used a walking stick like that, it's called a "fokos". They have similar ones in Slovakia and Rumania (with different names). I bought one in July but still haven't recieved it.

TLM
 
You'd want to be careful in rough/slippery terrain...
You can fall and land with the walking stick under you sometimes...
OUCH!!!
 
thanks, brother dwight - right, ...the pole axe, for lack of a better word - it's an old idea, with new materials.

the Old Guys new what they were doing.


brother cotherion - we're on the same track with the takedowns...;

i am considering making ones that split in "prime" lengths, instead of two perfect halves...;

so you would have maybe a one foot section (short hawk), then a two foot section (standard tomahawk), a three foot section (long hawk), then pop two of the sections together for a 4 or five foot staff, and then all three for a six foot (or more) bo with a nasty bite on the end....

i can't control myself naturally so i gave one to my wife so she keeps me in line ...hehehe...!

wish me luck, brethren.

vec
 
right.

a good sheath system will mitigate that.

after tromping around in nasty places most of my life with "weapons hot" though, my position is that if you kill yourself it is probably what's best for the gene pool ...har...!

i was in the jungle in the northern phillipines last january walking up steep hills in sticky/slick six inch mud with all my Isnag buddies carrying their aliwah, which in Apayao consist of a 10 - 11 inch recurved, eagle-beaked blade with a sharpened spike on the other side, ...on the end of a handle the length of your forearm, ...perfectly balanced to throw over the crook of your elbow, and ready to whip someone's head off cleanly or just shave with...;

if ya fell on one of those, it'd be over ...there is no word for "sheath" in Isnag.

there are probably seventy words for "laughable stupidity" though ...har...!

this is why i love folks who carry weapons.

they are sensible.

YMMV

vec
 
vector001,

I would be concerned about the ability to swing the tomahawk EFFECTIVELY once the length got much past 2 1/2 - 3 feet!!!

Have you tried them out (chopping/hacking/sticking in a wooden target while holding the shaft)?

I would think that the most effective 'moves' when the length is 3 feet or longer would be spear-like jabs, and the head is at the wrong angle for this...
 
vector001,

I would be concerned about the ability to swing the tomahawk EFFECTIVELY once the length got much past 2 1/2 - 3 feet!!!

Have you tried them out (chopping/hacking/sticking in a wooden target while holding the shaft)?

I would think that the most effective 'moves' when the length is 3 feet or longer would be spear-like jabs, and the head is at the wrong angle for this...
Click to expand...

well, you are right i think ...my favorite length for a hawk is in the 28 - 32 inch range with a light head.

the hawk is so low mass that with the flat hatchet side of the handle, it is pretty easy to control.

it was built with a woman or young man in mind (as a possible user), and they like it so far.

i use varying-modulus slurries in the composite, so the handle has very little feedback - the handle is actually my tomahawk-length handle that i like to make, times twice the length - since the hawk handles are overbuilt, the staff-lengths have done well so far - i am always up to improving where i can though, brother glock...:)....


as to "moves" ...well, every buddy's different ...(wink!) ...like i noted, with the low mass of the thing, anyone dumb enough to get within four feet plus the length of your reach is going to have a big surprise. - i love these low-mass hawk heads becuase you can use them all day, including on adversaries.

also, you'll notice i have a bolt that connects on the butt, which can be used as a spear point in extremus ...:)... or you can bolt hoes, real spearheads, shovels, or whatever on there ...crude so far, but its a learning process, fellow-babies ...:)....

this hawk is a hiking staff first ...a pretty tough one compared to wood, and lighter probably...;

if i encounter a feral dog pack, or someone who wrinkles their nose up at my side of the fence, the head will do its part just fine.

the handle alone will beat Jesus into anything ...so the head just adds to the merriment ...hehehe...!

and i can gather some fire wood to take the chill off the old bones....

what really matters to me though is THEY ARE FUN AS ALL GET-OUT.

....har...!

all that said, i hope to have takedowns soon, so folks can try out any length, any time, but with only one hawk.

excuse me, i got a tee-time for some gopher golf....

vec
 
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