Wal Mart Native!

Ok guys I know WM is a despised institution but can we talk about the Natives guys are finding? I like to hear about their finds and what they think of the knife. WM and China are juggernauts eating all of the competition. My job at GE will be going to Mexico in a couple years but you have to deal with the inevitable.
 
I did some more googling, and I see a lot of places list the MSRP for the Native as $94.95. Did it just drop? Will dealers start getting lower wholesale prices?
 
Carl64 said:
I did some more googling, and I see a lot of places list the MSRP for the Native as $94.95. Did it just drop? Will dealers start getting lower wholesale prices?

Price is still $94.95 as of today according to distributors. Which still puts dealer price higher than what Wal-Mart is selling the knife for. Are they a dealer or distributor? or Both?

Would make our life nice if you anyone could be both :)

Again:

Integrity is doing what is right even when no one is looking.
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I've done business with New Graham in the past, though lately I go to Grand Prairie since it is only a ten minute drive from my house. I can understand how long time Spyderco merchants would not be happy about Natives at Wal-Mart. My hope is that Spyderco never makes more than a few models availble at Wal-Mart because the more specialized merchants put Spyderco on the map, along with the GunShow/KnifeShow folks (often one in the same.) Wal-Mart can mean more money for Spyderco but it also get sucked up and spat out like so many other manufacturers.

I wish the best for all involved.:confused:
 
The Native, Endura and Delica should do pretty well there. Other than that, I think that more models would not work at WM. Most of the people that are looking for a knife that are shopping there are looking for a good deal. Several custom makers have told me that most hunters, for example, have no qualms about laying out a thousand bucks for a gun, but balk at laying out more than 50 bucks for a knife. Before the WM shopper gets to the knife display, they are bombarded with $9 Winchester knives displays and el cheapo multitools. Unless they know the Spyderco brand, most shoppers IMO, will go for the Buck, Gerber and Victorinox lines first, maybe the Leathermans. The Kershaw, CRKT and Spyderco offerings at WM will attract knife collectors, and people who want higher performing knives, not that Buck and Gerber are poor performers. Also, IMO, Spyderco outperforms Kershaw and CRKT, but to the average WM shopper, they are not well known names. The Spyderco name will get wider recognition from this.

I've noticed that WM is pushing higher end knives. Does this mean that they will be selling Benchmades and Sebenzas in five years? I don't think so. I believe that WM has their niche among the guys who want a good knife to beat up, a good knife that will worn down over the years and will be their only one, for menial tasks. Stores that specialize in cutlery are selling to guys and gals that care about the overall quality of their knives. Ergo, these cutlery stores will carry more expensive and reliable brands than WM. There will be crossover from both crowds of buyers, but WM will not drive the specialty stores out of business, and vice versa. When WM starts carrying the full line of Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, etc, that is the time for the specialty cutlery stores to start worrying.
 
NGK-Webmaster said:
Price is still $94.95 as of today according to distributors.

Can you order directly from Spyderco? Surely if the MSRP is now $75 they must have a lower wholesale price. Maybe the distributors just haven't updated yet, or won't until the high-priced stock is gone?

If Spyderco is going to drop the wholesale price for everyone, that's great. Maybe Walmart should still get a slight discount for large quantity orders (10,000 knives deserves a lower price than 10), but hopefully not a ridiculous amount.
 
I've been watching this thread with interest, and have conflicted feelings about it.

On one hand, I'm used to only dealing with individuals and dealers who have a great deal of integrity, and the bottom line is that I'd rather pay more, even much more, to support a company with integrity rather than purchase from a place with the ethics that WM has.

On the other hand, I recognize that in order to keep their company strong in changing and challenging economic conditions, Spyderco might really be best served by doing this sort of thing, and I want them to succeed as a company and keep coming out with great new knives.

My final feelings are- best wishes to Spyderco in whatever they do, including this WM thing; but if I buy a new native, it will be from New Graham.
 
It kinda seems like this whole thing kind of puts the ELU in an interesting position. I have ordered from NGK a few times and talked to Mike and Mary Beth at NKG a few times. I really like NGK!! They are great people and their customer service is second to none IMHO. I will still order from them for most anything, but when it comes to the Native, where do I buy it??

Ron
 
We understand that there are some concerns regarding this decision. We would like to assure you that Spyderco did not make this decision lightly. Following numerous lengthy discussions we felt that becoming a small part of the world’s largest retailer would provide a great benefit, not only to Spyderco, Inc., but also to our Dealers and Distributors. This new relationship will not only introduce Spyderco to a new end line user (ELU), but we believe it will create a new wave of Spyderco enthusiasts that will seek out other offerings from Spyderco that are not available in Wal-Mart. We felt strongly that we did not want to change our quality to introduce a knife to the Wal-Mart customer but rather introduce a Wal-Mart customer to Spyderco quality.

We notified all of our accounts (both Dealers & Distributors) of the fact that we would be supplying Wal-Mart with the Native (C41PBK). This notification was given to them prior to ANY Wal-Mart store offering the knife. It also included new pricing information that was effective 1-Nov-2005. Because of the quantity Wal-Mart ordered from us, we were able to obtain discounts on the materials used to make the C41PBK. We passed this discount on to all of our accounts. The MSRP also went down and our own site has been revised. There is the same difference between Dealer cost and MSRP as all of our other models.

There are probably some (a small number according to our sales records) Dealers/Distributors who are still selling the C41PBK at the original MSRP because they purchased their stock prior to the price change.

From a corporate perspective (meaning I cannot speak for transactions with Wal-Mart directly with individual stores – we are speaking only from doing business directly with Wal-Mart at a Corporate level), Wal-Mart does not force vendors to take merchandise back. Prior to becoming an official Wal-Mart vendor there is a lengthy process in which both sides learn a great deal about the other. There is actually a written agreement between the two detailing how business will be conducted. It is in this agreement that such details as returns, etc. are addressed. In fairness to Wal-Mart if a vendor has to take back any unsold product it is only because they agreed to, prior to actually shipping anything.

The change to the Knife Boards is a rolling change; our understanding is that the updates will be complete by January/February. Currently, we are in just over 1400 stores in the US (HI & AK included). We understand that we have been placed in the heavier traffic stores (traffic specific to the knife counter). We apologize for not being able to tell you exactly which stores, but we encourage you to call ahead, as it seems to vary greatly. We know that the 3 stores closest to Spyderco all have the Native in stock.

As to what other product may be found in Wal-Mart. We are only selling the C41PBK directly to Wal-Mart at a corporate level. The reality of the situation is this, we are a small company; we have no intentions, nor do we have the ability to offer mass quantities of all of our models.

The truth is, every retailer (every business), be they worldwide or next-door approaches their business from a competitive angle. Years ago, there were only brick and mortar stores. These stores competed with each other but from the perspective of the shops within a close geographical area. Then the Internet came. This changed everything. Soon, several of those brick and mortar shops started selling their goods online. This of course dramatically increased their competition, now they're potentially competing for the same customer as someone around the world. Prices began to drop. Online outlets in fact, took the selling of knives (not just ours) to a whole new level. We watched and we’ve always done what we could for as long as we could to protect our brick and mortar stores, especially the Mom & Pop shops who could not start their own online outlet. We wouldn’t allow an online-only retailer to purchase directly from Spyderco, we tried to negotiate fair retail pricing with our customers who started their own online outlet (some agreed and adjusted their pricing, others did not – stating that they needed to stay competitive or that their pricing was based upon what was best for the ELU) and we’ve never sold new product on our own site at anything less than MSRP. The only discounted product on our site is discontinued product that has been offered to our entire account base first.

In respect to this move hurting our Dealers/Distributors, it can only do so if you, the ELU stop buying from them. We don’t foresee that happening any time soon. Wal-Mart is NOT a knife dealer or a knife shop. This is one small item in an almost infinite sea of items offered by Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart doesn’t wish to become a knife dealer or a knife shop. Our understanding is they do however wish to offer a quality USA made knife within their Sporting Goods departments at a fair price for their ELU. What we do is and always has ultimately been for our ELU.

If we were trying to do anything less than ethical we would have never notified our account base of the addition of this customer, Wal-Mart. We did so, because it was the right thing to do, not because we’re required to. Spyderco is still a privately owned and operated company. So to imply that we’ve done something behind the backs of our loyal customers is false.

In fairness to Wal-Mart, we probably should have warned them of the throws of Knuts who would be coming there way to play. Spyder Drops are fun. Hopefully, in time we’ll teach some of their clerks how to do them too!

Time will tell what becomes of this decision. You can rest assured of one thing though. We’re watching (with all of our Spyder eyes).
 
Kristi, I certainly don't think that what Spyderco has done is unethical. From my perspective it is disappointing, but not unethical.

Jack
 
I also feel that Spyderco has done nothing unethical. I am frankly happy tht I can get a Native for around $40. ThaT is going to make my favortie knife even more affordable, if my local Wal-Mart has Natives, I will get one for sure.
I just wish the smaller dealers, who carry all the really cool more hard to get material.
 
You people are all nuts.

Walmart is a big company now because they used to be the local mom and pop store that did everything right and succeeded.

Just this week I've spend hundreds more dollars in local venues because Walmart doesn't sell the good stuff in anything.

Look at their knife case sometime. You can see so much room for improvement it's pathetic. I've bought probably $500 worth of knives in my life from New Graham, and they're just a real good online merchant as far as I'm concerned. I've bought exactly $50 worth of knives from Walmart in my life. A Native and a Victorinox classic aren't going to destroy a real cutlery store that can sell me a Manix, or something like a Surefire flashlight.

Walmart is for chump stuff, bargain hunting, or cheap deals on crap you don't really care about very much. I consider the Walmart Native a bargain hunt item.

I understand Sypderco's decision because we're all always whining and complaining that Sypderco stopped production of this or this new model won't be out for X months... what if they can get a stable source of revenue? Imagine all the cool stuff they could do.

Good heavens, other chain "box" "monster mart" stores sell Spyderco and I don't hear anyone preaching against them.
 
I don't really like Walmart either for a bunch of reasons, but as long as online dealers get the same new wholesale cost, I don't see a problem.

It sucks being stuck with inventory you paid last year's cost for, especially if the cost drops 30%, but that's something that happens in retail. At least the Native can still sell for $40, even if that's at some loss for the current inventory. Every dealer out there probably has a small pile of some knives that they can't get out the door for almost any price.
 
Integrity: Doing what's right even when no one is watching.

Okay, I agree, but I find this repeated line rather cryptic. Could you say what you really mean here?

To suggest somehow that Spyderco hasn't acted with integrity seems off-base from my rather limited perspective. I don't know if such was the implicit message of this line, but it's how I interpreted it. Of course, my only window onto events is this little slice of cyberworld. I don't know even a part of the whole story, though this thread has helped to fill in some of the gaps.

According to tazkristi, Spyderco was up front and honest with its distributors/dealers. I, for one, appreciate her lengthy and revealing narrative. Seems to me that the Native may well help a lot of knife users find Spydercos for the first time, which (if I'm any example at all) will lead to years of buying other Spyderco models--all of which will have to come from other dealers. Good for Spyderco, good for Spyderco fans.

I'm 100% behind this endeavor if it will help Spyderco do what it's been doing all along: producing innovative/collaborative designs, constructing quality knives, offering them at a fair price, and backing them up with excellent customer service. That's one reason I forked over the $40 for a Wal-Mart Native the other day without a thought. I already own a Native III that I actually like better in terms of design, but I wanted to support Spyderco's new venture, and I got a nice knife with great steel in the process.

FWIW, I bought my Native at the South Pittsburg, TN store just off of I-24.
 
Spyderco has stated there side and I've given mine so that pretty much does it for me. I'm not interested in trying to convince people that Wal-Mart is unhealthy for local economies, but I disagree with Kristi that Wal-Mart doesn't want to be a knife store. If they have the market they most certainly do want to be a knife store. DMW-I never suggested that Wal-Mart was going to shut down New Graham by selling Natives and I applaud Spyderco if they are pricing equally across the board. Being in Wal-Mart still sets a bad precedent IMO.

DeadManWalking said:
Good heavens, other chain "box" "monster mart" stores sell Spyderco and I don't hear anyone preaching against them.

That's because those stores sell at well above the going Internet rate, not below it. O.K. Wal-Mart shoppers return to your scheduled discussion. :D

Jack
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Harry,

FWIW, Of the dealers and distributors that have complained, their sales history indicated that they had purchased few or no plain edged Natives in the past 12 months.

I think that their fears are based on what they think we might do in the future.

sal

Definitely. Any decisions on the future, yet?
Might the very-decent-for-the-price Byrd line been a better choice for them?
 
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