Waning appeal of super steel

[craytab]

Who is Andy Roney? I see you constantly dog pile on grammatical errors, spelling errors, and others opinions then you make a spelling error? It happens so get over it! Sorry to go OT...but get over yourself

OMG, you missed an o in a word! The world will stop and come to an end!

And then you cry about it http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1356901-Non-receipt-claim-filed-with-Paypal-1hr-after-payment-was-sent?highlight=craytab

Lol! Whut? You expect me to go through that entire thread and pull out the post I think you are talking about?

I sense a little butt hurt here. Could it come from the fact that myself and other have to constantly point out the inaccuracies you post with regard fact, figures, and logic? Ironic especially when it comes to price figures when your username shows you literally buy and sell money. But hey, I'm a helpful guy so I will help you out here.

You see, when taking a pot shot at someone, it is important to be specific. When providing a link to a cross thread insult, for the benefit of the reader, you can be more specific by providing a link to the specific post you are trying to reference:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ee-a-new-G10-Grip!!!!?p=15524722#post15524722

See how much easier that is to understand what post I am talking about. Further, you can even quote posts across threads:

Yippee, a grip + custom g-10 scales = about $189 bfd! Let's see a Ritter with g-10 under $175 and I may be interested. Reg grip at $89 + $80 for custom grips = no real value other than the steel.

This may be the best marketing ploy ever! Everyone wants better scales so here you go :thumbdn:

And if you want to make it easier for your readers you can quote the responses to a quote you have provided:

A Ritter with G-10 for under $175 ? I seriously doubt that will happen...

The Forum is full of people who have bought aftermarket scales for $75 - $130, and put them on existing Grips. Some of them lowly production versions with 154 steel.
So why is the price so horrible ? I like the fact that BM did their G-10 and kept the original style of texturing on the side of the scales. IMHO it keeps it a Griptilian.

Yes, I would have rather seen the knives priced lower, but that is normal. BM finally listened to what people were saying, and I for one am very happy about it.

There is no way they can please everyone. Either the price is too high, or people don't like the colors, or both.

Your numbers and logic is off.

That doesn't seem to stop a whole bunch of people lately, all over.

It also is a disservice to the forums in general. Some new guy may read that and take it for the truth, not knowing any better. Oh wells. You can explain things to people, but you cannot understand it for them.

"No real value other than steel." It's a huge step up from 154CM to 20CV!

The regular Mini Grip 556 goes for $89.25 with 154CM and polymer handles.

The new Mini Grip 556-1 goes for $165.75 with super premium CPM-20CV, G-10 scales and blue barrel spacers.

For the extra $76 which normally just gets you the cheapest aftermarket G-10 scales you're get nice G-10 and a big boost in blade steel! I see a lot of value in the 556-1. The one caveat is that the 556-1 just comes in one color scheme. At least, thus far.

I know this has been dealt with, but...hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion. Not seeing any value in the 551-1, by all means speak your mind. But......because the 551-1 doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Particularly, the implication that it represents some sort of deception on Benchmade's part is unsupportable vis-a-vis all the requests from customers for just this knife for so many years.

Corrections on the math:

Standard 551 is about $98. So a 154CM 551 with custom grips would be around $178, which is the Internet discount price of the 551-1.

M390 Ritter is about $140. So, a 551-1 steel equivalent custom Ritter would be $220 and up.

So for what you would invest to get a G-10 custom Griptilian with 154CM, you can get a factory G-10 Griptilian with upgraded steel (nicely upgraded steel). Personally, I think the 551-1 handle is nicer than most of the straight swap aftermarket handles available. To get something as nice as the 551-1 handle, I think you would have to go to a true custom handle builder and spend $100 and up. I like the color combination a lot. The grey is subdued, but not tactical. The blue liner is quite handsome.

I never understand when knife collectors grouse about the price of a Benchmade, or any production knife. When a person - such as myself for example - has dozens of knives, representing a market expenditure in the several thousands of dollars, what sense does it make to eschew the purchase of the next knife on the basis of a perceived over value of $20 or so? You can only carry one or at the most two knives at a time, so in a way that means the effective cost of the knife or knives in your pocket on any given day could be thousands of dollars. Sure, if you only own one or two knives, then the matter of $20 of value may be important. But when the knife in your pocket represents an investment of $thousands, not so much.

Well, see how I am...too much rambling. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Lastly, when you cross thread post, a person can click on that little arrow thing next to your name in the quote and it will take them to not only the thread it was quoted from but to the specific quote! This is nice if people want to go read the thread the quote was taken from they don't need to search all over the forum looking for it. I hope that was helpful :thumbup:

please direct me to a positive post that you have made and I will be more than happy to eat my words

Sorry you are missing all my positive posts on the forum. You seem to be stalking down what you perceive to be my negative ones. I guess you didn't bother returning to that thread you crapped in to read the rest of it. That doesn't seem like a me problem though. Plenty of positivity there! There are links to it above


And back on topic!

I've been known to carry CTS-204p, 1095, and 8cr at the same time

 

[Velitrius]

And back on topic!

I've been known to carry CTS-204p, 1095, and 8cr at the same time

That, my friend, is a well rounded loadout!

 

[fsatsil]

I haven't really become less interested in "super steel" but I have noticed that I'm not as impressed with them as I was 10-15 years ago. I remeber In the 1990s when Spyderco started using 440V it was such a big deal and now almost every Spyderco is made from one of the super steels. I guess I just expect any knife over $100 these days to be made with one of the super steels so it's not that special anymore.

 

[craytab]

That, my friend, is a well rounded loadout!

0562cf, GEC, and a Tremor. Three's Company!

 

[NMpops]

The last fancy steel I bought was an AFCK in ATS34 which I bought back in the 90's. Honestly, I can't see that it cuts or holds an edge any better than my Buck 112 or Puma Game Warden which supposedly use an inferior steel.
It also seems that people who tout the latest super steel also tout 1095 which has been around forever.

 

[craytab]

The last fancy steel I bought was an AFCK in ATS34 which I bought back in the 90's. Honestly, I can't see that it cuts or holds an edge any better than my Buck 112 or Puma Game Warden which supposedly use an inferior steel.
It also seems that people who tout the latest super steel also tout 1095 which has been around forever.

Do they tout their 1095 to be the same as their "stuper steel"? Where is this touting?

 

[rick melear]

At the end of the day they all get dull, the easiest one to sharpen is my friend.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I've had my share of super-steels, all of the well-known ones, I believe. However, I bought and sold them and seldom USED them. So, MY most important aspect to my very casual EDC is more of fitting it to my hand. And so, I am left with a long list of ONE in my carry rotation...and the steel is not so important to me anymore... It's easy to sharpen. And the steel? CTS-B75P Flat-ground Blade. Not so well-known as many others, but it works well for me.
I might prefer to have this exact knife in S90V, but I really don't need it...

 

[flip888]

I came to the conclusion that supr steels were not for me a long time ago. I even made a thread about it. To me, good old 1095 is perfectly acceptable. I don't care for any stainless steels anymore. Simple carbon steels are more versatile IMO.

 

[fsatsil]

I've had my share of super-steels, all of the well-known ones, I believe. However, I bought and sold them and seldom USED them. So, MY most important aspect to my very casual EDC is more of fitting it to my hand. And so, I am left with a long list of ONE in my carry rotation...and the steel is not so important to me anymore... It's easy to sharpen. And the steel? CTS-B75P Flat-ground Blade. Not so well-known as many others, but it works well for me.
I might prefer to have this exact knife in S90V, but I really don't need it...

I've never owned a knife in CTS-B75P but I would definitely put it in the super steel category its basically Carpenters powder metallurgy version of BG42.

 

[tchapman414]

I'll second that. No real definable meaning really. However, if somebody asked us to name a couple supersteels, our lists would be very similar.

My EDC stuff hovers around AUS-8, 1095 and VG-10-ish, not because I don't think the newer steels are better materials, it's just that my EDC's don't do anything crazy and don't need to be sharpened all that often... and when they do need it, I like to take about 90 seconds to get it back where it belongs. These materials also generally mean a more affordable tool as well.

This has become my sentiment regarding steel selection, for the most part. I've found I prefer simple, easy-to-sharpen steels, as I enjoy the simplicity of a quick touch-up on a pocket stone in the evening. AEB-L and 14C28N are the first to come to mind, and I hope to get some experience with 1095.

If my sharpening progresses to where I can easily sharpen high-carbide steels, I'm sure I will enjoy them more at that time. All that said, a steel will rarely prevent a knife purchase if I like the design, but it can nudge me if I really enjoy the steel.

 

[tchapman414]

0562cf, GEC, and a Tremor. Three's Company!

That's a nice variety! Which GEC?

 

[craytab]

That's a nice variety! Which GEC?

This one. Not sure of the name. I'd have to go get the tube. I know it was the forum knife a while back. I won it in a very generous GAW. I'm not a traditional guy but this thing has amazed me. The Wharncliffe blade has been very useful.

Another diverse metallurgical carry day. 1095, AUS6, and M390.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's a fun little exploration of the impact of geometry vs. steel/heat treatment with untreated mild steel by none other than the infamous Cliff Stamp. It illustrates nicely how the geometry of a blade has the largest observable impact.

 

[BenHarris]

Seeing as how most of my knives are 1095 slipjoints and friction folders, you could say that supersteel has lost its appeal to this millennial college student.

 

[sparky2016]

You're not alone.

I'm pretty good at sharpening and kinda like doing it. Up to a certain point. I don't want to dedicate my day to getting an edge back. I don't want to have to buy specialized equipment to do it faster and more easily. Knives cease to be fun when using them involves drudgery and unnecessary expense.

I'm sure there are many on these forums who use their knives daily in their work or hobby who need the attributes of exotic super steel and have the tools to keep it sharp. Others probably think they need it or just want it based on praise in reviews, blogs and forum posts. Still others are collectors. All good reasons to buy knives.

Same here.

When I got to where I had almost as many stones as I did knives, it seemed to me I was doing something wrong. Or wrong for me, anyway.

IMO most of the knives and steels produced now are for the collector market, because there is a lot of money to be made there. That's fine, of course.

But it's wrong for people to blanket recommend those to newbies without any real thought or understanding about the person's actual needs.

 

[black mamba]

Super steels come into their own when used on tough media. My traditional slip joint knives don't need super steels because they don't get used that hard, so 1095 and 420HC work fine. My most typical "hard use" is skinning and butchering deer. In the past I have used 440C @ 60 HRc and had to use a field steel after each deer to refine the edge. This year I brought my Big Chris straight hunter to deer camp. The blade steel is CPM-S90V @ 61.

We had five hunters in camp, including one guy (Chadd) who does a lot of big game hunting and is an expert at skinning and cutting up game. Since he volunteered, I let him do the skinning and deboning with the Big Chris super steel knife. The others took the large pieces and cleaned them up before putting them in plastic bags. When we were all done and I washed off the Big Chris, Chadd asked to see it again. He tested the edge and asked if I had resharpened it already. I said no, hadn't even stropped it or anything. He had done 6 whitetails, complete skinning and deboning of all useable meat, and the edge was still nearly perfect. Tough, nearly frozen hide and hair, plus scraping along bone had no discernable effect on the edge. I brought the knife back two weekends later for the end of the season, and we did another 3 deer with it the same way. Still very sharp and completely useable. Super steels do have their place.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Super steels do have their place.

Absolutely. They just need to be applied in a context that actually produces a significant different in performance, and the geometry needs to be optimized for the steel choice and application.

 

[bodog]

Who is Andy Roney? I see you constantly dog pile on grammatical errors, spelling errors, and others opinions then you make a spelling error? It happens so get over it! Sorry to go OT...but get over yourself

And then you cry about it http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1356901-Non-receipt-claim-filed-with-Paypal-1hr-after-payment-was-sent?highlight=craytab

please direct me to a positive post that you have made and I will be more than happy to eat my words

Craytab wants to be a mod so bad it hurts. Every chance he gets to act like one he does it. Every time a mod says something craytab makes sure to quickly and very publicly agree.

If you don't want to see what he writes, then put him on ignore, otherwise just deal with how he is. Not a big deal either way.

 

[jpm2]

The last fancy steel I bought was an AFCK in ATS34 which I bought back in the 90's. Honestly, I can't see that it cuts or holds an edge any better than my Buck 112 or Puma Game Warden which supposedly use an inferior steel.
It also seems that people who tout the latest super steel also tout 1095 which has been around forever.

I also bought two afck's in the 90's, one in ats34 and one in the other "super steel" they offered. It quickly became apparent to me the ats34 wasn't so super. It has mostly set unused for 15 years. The other one is a completely different story. Too bad you picked the wrong one.