Was this a FAIR-TRADE

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Do you have the correct E-mail address? you KEEP Talking about mail you sent. To who?

I would very much prefer to do this via E-mail. And this is 50% my
FAULT. I never specified. I simply said " a trade in the
FAIR-RANGE. I take the blame for that.

The only question ever about the Spydercos was whether a screw was missing from the belt-clip after they went thru the dishwasher. I never heard anything about a broken tip. Look at the photos. What tip?

Come-on....Answer my Mail:( :( :(
 
I did not want to buy into this situation, but I feel that I must.

If anyone cares to take the time to do a search, he/she would find that wolfmann is a valued contributor to these forums.
He has always publicly supported, in word and deed, the honest principals on which fair-trading is based.

A man who gives knives away, and goes to extraordinary lengths to bring dishonest formites to justice, will not put his good name at risk in an effort to screw someone out of a POS.

At best there was a difference of the definition of "fair".
At worst someone took a chance.
If the latter is true - you can rest assured it was not wolfmann taking the chances.
 
If I were Sunshine and wanted to keep trading on this forum, I would make it right.

I grew up swapping coon dogs and trading horses with some old time dog jockeys and horse traders. And in that neck of the woods, both parties knew going into the trade that anything other than outright lying was fair. It was a game, with rough rules. Just about anything went, and if you got skinned, you took it like a man, learned from the experience, and tried to make it up on the next trade. Everyone involved knew that was the way the game was played. If you didn't want to play, don't.

HOWEVER,THIS IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIND OF PLACE. And I for one am glad that it is. The object of trading on BFC is not to see how much you can beat somebody on a trade. This is a community with different mores and ethical standards.

If you trade for strictly mercenary purposes, this isn't the place for you. You will ultimately be exposed and no one will trade with you.

Sunshine, hiding behind the old "A trade is a trade and we are both big boys" is a good way to get unofficially written off by most everyone here.

I hope that both these gentlemen come through this unscathed.
 
belong here, but I get zippo when I E-mail him. I shipped these two Spydercos to him and allowed HIM to place a FAIR Value on them and ship back a mukti-tool that represented a
FAIR-TRADE
I shipped my knives with the only guarantee being Jared is a menber of BFC. I expected a Multi-Tool in the FAIR Value.

I did not specify how much, how new, how old, just FAIR

If a $30.00 Gerber Multi-Tool is a FAIR TRADE, I will go away......FAR FAR away...............Ira
:(
 
Originally posted by oupa
If anyone cares to take the time to do a search, he/she would find that wolfmann is a valued contributor to these forums.
He has always publicly supported, in word and deed, the honest principals on which fair-trading is based.
Click to expand...


I myself must comment on this...I also did a search, and the same can pretty much be said about the other party in this trade.

As far as I can see, nobody has had any problems with either of these two people, so you then seem to conclude that whoever has the most posts must be right, which is most certainly not true.

A man who gives knives away, and goes to extraordinary lengths to bring dishonest formites to justice, will not put his good name at risk in an effort to screw someone out of a POS.
Click to expand...


So because the other party has not publicly given away knives or matched the other party, he again must be the bad guy?

At best there was a difference of the definition of "fair".
At worst someone took a chance.
If the latter is true - you can rest assured it was not wolfmann taking the chances.
Click to expand...


No, wrong here too....Someone is lying, and the emails should make it very clear just who it is.

How would it not be Wolfmann taking the chances, if he is the one saying he got screwed? At any rate, both parties took a chance by working out a trade over the internet, and now it needs to be made clear who is lying.

Sometimes it is just a matter of miscommunication or a simple misunderstanding, but this is not one of those times. From what both parties have posted here, someone is definitely lying, and I want to know who it is so that I can avoid dealing with this person...it's as simple as that.

When you bring issues here to the GB&U, and it's a clear matter of someone outright lying, it should be publicly resolved so there is no doubt about who is at fault.
 
Well, lets see. I have sent six or more E-Mails asking to resolve this. But NO Response.

So, here I am posting two Spydercos for trade, a FAIR-TRADE for a Multi-Tool.

I allow the formite to place the value on the two Spydercos as I have no clue. They arrive and he appears happy. He POSTS that Wolfmann601 is a GREAT Guy to tade with. [since edited]in GB&U.

He sends one E-mail asking about a missing screw AFTER putting them in the DISHWASHER. I said "no screw was missing, bud, check ya dishwasher. Funny, no broken tip in the photos or mentioned in any E-mail. And no word on the Screw. because I got it, screwed... And why Post in GB&U what a nice guy I am:confused:

He sends me a $30.00 Gerber as the FAIR-TRADE in return. Remember, he was shipped the two Spydercos first and asked to place a FAIR value on them and ship back an appropriate tool. I get a $30.00 POS.
So, I send a sarcastic E-mail and say "so this is a fair deal?" I add the words [hey Jared, I guess a Deal is a deal, HUH? and ask for an explanation.

I get a Mail that says "I do not understand?" What part of FAIR-TRADE do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

I post a generic in GB&U. I become the TROLL. Cool, I like being a TROLL. I disklike dishonesty.

But the fact still remains, the photos show no broken tips. he did post what a nice guy I am and a smooth trade it was, and only deleted it after I E-mailed him questioning HIS FAIR Trade.

So, once again. WAS this a Fair Trade?.....Ira:confused: :rolleyes:
 
Wolf, im afraid you are fighting a losing battle here. I agree what he did was underhanded and he took advantage of your trusting nature. However, you did seemingly leave it all up to him as to what he thought was fair. Granted, his idea of "fair" is warped. Since you have admitted to leaving the fair part up to him at the beginning, I cant see he did anything illegal.

As for you Jared, just because what you did may not be illegal, it sure as hell is immoral and unethical.

I have made several trades on this forum and am proud of the fact that I am honest in my deals. I am always so pleased that the other people are always so fair and honest with me as well. I would hope everybodyt would strive to be upstanding and fair.

Jared, you maybe laughing now that you got such a great deal by shafting another member, but keep in mind it may very well be the last time anybody chooses to risk dealing with you.
 
This is my last post in this thread, but there are some things that need to be said, and it would seem the actual emails won't be posted, so it's just one persons word against anothers...why the emails are not posted, I have no idea.

First, if someone tries to put the onus on me for determining what I "fair value" is for something, I know they are trying to screw me around....it's as simple as that. What MOST people would do is end up greatly overvaluing whatever it is they are trading for or buying, and the other party ends up sitting quite nicely. I won't do it, period. You have something to trade, establish a fair trade value for it, and get it done.

Second, what's the point in posting here asking if something was a fair trade? It makes no difference at all what people here think, because they were not invovled in your trade....so what's the point?

Third, if you do decide, for whatever reason, to let someone determine fair trade value for you, you should not then come here and complain about what is fair. You obviously had an idea of what the fair value was, and yet you put the burden on the other party, simple as that.

Somebody is lying here, and it's just too bad the emails are not posted so everything would be perfectly clear.

I will say that I don't care how many posts you have, how long you have been here, or what you have done in the past..none of that has any bearing on determining who is lying and who is not.
Furthermore, both parties in this case have great track record, so it's even more pointless comparing numbers of posts and coming to the conclusion that the person with the most posts must be right.

I personally can't imagine lying about something as petty as this anyway, but someone obviously is....

Yeah, this whole thing ticks me off pretty badly, which is why I bothered to post in the first place...
 
It does not seem to me that anyone is lying here. I think Wolfmann's mail system is broke, probably at his ISP or his ISP's ISP. It once happened to me that in the middle of a transaction the other guy found suddenly all the mail he sent me bounced -- and I didn't know it because I was receiving mail from other people, just not from him for some reason. He worked around it by getting a friend on another ISP to forward mail to me.

It has also happened to me that mail sent to me has gotten lost without an error message being bounced back to the sender. The email system is pretty reliable these days, but it isn't perfect -- and everything depends on the guys who run your ISP; if they have their heads up their bungholes you can have all kinds of problems.

I think the tip got broken in shipping. Or maybe in the dishwasher; who knows. Whatever, I think these two could work it out with no problem if they could communicate. Wolfmann, apparently he is receiving mail from you with no problem -- why don't you mail him your phone number? Or open an account at www.yahoo.com and send him some mail from that account and see if you can receive his replies there.
 
I've read through this entire thread, and you two guys really do need to settle this dispute via private email, or by "snail mail".

Awhile back, I had a trade with "Sunshine", and the trade itself went fine (although the Seiko Dive Watch that he traded to me quit working after only two months), but that was my fault for accepting to trade for a watch that "needed a new battery".:(. I guess it all comes down to commumicating what each expects in a trade.
 
I accept all the blame for asking another formite to put a fair value on two knives that I had no clue as to their worth...This I stand
GUILTY

The photos I took show no broken tip and the ONLY question he asked was "was one screw missing from the belt-clip. "I Noticed it
AFTER I put it through the dishwasher. I replied: "check your dishwasher bud" If there was a broken tip, DON'T you think that might have been more important than a missing screw?

Now, if he was so unhappy about the condition, WHY the nice words about the trade in GB&U? I would be astonished to see someone sing my praises if I sent him a bunged up knife. [of course since edited]

My original post made clear the knives are users. The photo is clear, my words concise. He knew what to expect. I even shipped them and allowed him to evaluate them and then send one of the "leathermen" he said he had. Again, I am Guilty of expecting a
FAIR TRADE, and entering into this with absolutely no idea of the knives value. I DO KNOW they are worth more than $15.00 each, or even $20.00 each if one paid full sticker. I expected an honest deal...Again GUILTY

I had to change my E-mail address due to a serious tangle with XP. But my new E-mail was given [see original trade post] he had no problem E-mailing me when things were peachy. Now that things suck, I sent E-mail upon E-mail with no response. I have tried many times.
GUILTYof trying to keep this off GB&U [see above E-mail]

Live and learn. I will write this off as to the level of my expectations. Reality is clearly not even close to my expectations in this world. GUILTY of HIGH Expectations

Lets be perfectly clear. There is NOTHING CRIMINAL or slimey here. I am disappointed that Jared will not answer my mail, and yup it works. He even has my phone number, and yup that works too.

What goes around, Comes around and I have no intention of changing my style. ANYONE who has engaged in a trade/sale with me knows that once we have a "DEAL", the money is secondary. I immediately ship my knives, or have made it perfectly clear what and when to expect whatever, and I deliver HONESTlY.

And if someone REALLY NEEDS a knife I own, they need only ask and I would give it to them............This is over. Back to the world of knives with a Gerber Multi-tool and no Spydercos...Ira
 
Mr. wolfmann sir,
I can see that your trusting nature and the lack of effective communication has severely dented you trust in humanity.
I would have felt the same.
But there is a bright side to all of this.

You have learned a valuable lesson about some people's principals or lack thereof, at a relatively cheap price.
One of your prised Daltons could have been involved and cost to you could have been very painful.

It pays to remember that to some people it is not a crime to steal - only to get caught.

Write this whole unfortunate "deal" off and see it as a part of an ongoing education in the sometimes not too pleasant ways of our fellow men.
 
Well Wolf, I can tell ya right now I think it ain't a fair trade. I have had TWO Gerbers an BOTH broke as in the two buttons that extend the jaws fell apart. What happend? I cut a coat hanger.
Just my experiance with Gerbers.
 
I am going to give Sunshine the benefit of the doubt and ASSume that he thought that this was a fair trade. BUT, when Wolf mailed him, he should have responded in a manner as to either make the deal right (fixing the trade or calling it off). I've known Ira to be one of the good guys on the forum who will do almost anything to make sure that a deal goes as smoothly as possible. It's a shame that Sunshine didn't extend the same courtesy.
Matt
 
Here's My take:

The Knives look to be in very good shape. Therefore I would consider 40-50% of there going values to be a fair trade.

The real fault lies in people's failure to be specific. When you speak in generalities, sooner, or later you're going to get screwed:(.

Anyway, I hope you guys can get things squared away:).
 
I'll tell you right now Ira is a stand-up guy. I only know him from the forums, but I have a great deal of respect for him (although we don't always agree).;)

No, this was not a fair trade, even if the knives were in the condition claimed by sunshine. However, Ira, you did specifically ask him to send a multitool that he thought was a fair trade. If sunshine claims this is fair, you don't have much recourse. Posting here is about the best you can do. I have a feeling sunshine's trading may suffer now that it is out how he treated you.

Sunshine, do the right thing. Send the knives back to Ira. This trade should be voided and the two of you can get on with things.

-Al-
 
My attention span sucks. Anyway, here is my $.02. I have known wolfmann601 to be honest to a fault. In this case, I must say, "Wolf, don't do dumb things like that! I know you think people are good, and they are. But, some don't perceive things the way you do. For example, from the photo, I would call the spydercos, "good" at best. I know you think "very good", and I am not saying you are wrong. Fact is, who makes the call? Lester. But, he is busy now. So I say it is quite simple. A trdae happened. Someone is not happy. Trade back, add Sunshine to ignore list. The End.

Sunshine,
I do not know you, and this post does not in anyway relate to your honesty or character. I have no reason to doubt you. Just my own opinion.
 
I really do think that all this would be solved by going back to square one. Each of you send back the others knives and call it a day. The reason that I am more in Ira's court on this one, is that he is willing to do this and it seems that Sunshine/Jared is not. Makes me think that Jared knows he got the better of the deal and doesn't want to give that up. His refusal to answer emails from Ira also leaves me thinking that Jared has a to hell with him attitude about this whole thing.
 
Let me ask a question, how many people here have gotten the lions share of a deal because the person you were dealing with really wanted what you had?

How many people have given away a $250 knife to get a $200 one?

I have done both.

How do we know that Wolf did not really want a multitool and this was one of those situations? Without seeing proof of the transaction it's all speculative...

How do we know that Sunshine didn't only have one multi-tool to give? Without seeing proof of the transaction it's all speculative...

Both people have good histories on this forum and if either had something I wanted I would not hesitate to deal with them. To me this seems like a big F'd up mess because of poor communications.


With that said..

One thing I really hate is that whenever someone comes out with a bad against one of the FOG's suddenly all of these people are out for blood saying "well I've dealt with so-&-so six times and he never screwed me over so this guys a criminal". :mad:

That's what is ridiculous. Without ever having proof people are threatening legal action and wanting to go to people's houses :mad:

Doing shi* like that undermines the entire GBU system because it makes people with valid problems afraid to speak up for fear of being squashed by the "status quo".

I got rear-ended by a FOG a short time ago and I didn't bring it here because I didn't want to be treated like pond scum and told I was wrong, when I was right. I took my licking like a man and went on with life.

FWIW, I have dealt with Sunshine in the past and found him easy to work with. From what I have seen here AT MOST he is guilty of an error in judgment.

I don't care how many times I have dealt with someone, I hammer out a deal before a single package gets mailed.

Sorry for the rant :)
 
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