Was this a FAIR-TRADE

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chad, I think that what you say has a lot of merit. From what I have read, Jared has a lot of support on these forums and is an honest guy to deal with. Maybe it is some kind of principle that keeps him from agreeing to returning Ira's knives and having Ira return his multi-tool and just wiping this whole thing clean. A deal is a deal I guess.
 
was "generic". No names were attached. Then sunshine proceeded to claim the tip of one was broken. Funny thing, it was NOT broken prior to the trip in his dishwasher. The only question he raised was concerning a missing screw from a belt clip AFTER the dishwasher job. he found the screw in the dishwasher. Still no word about a "tip".
I am totally at fault. I am also very naive. I started with two 1986 Spydercos that I had completely forgotten I owned. I wanted a multi-tool to give as a gift. I offered the Hunter and worker, but had no clue as to their value. I posted on the Spyderco forum to get a "ball-park" figure but to no avail. I posted in "knives wanted" and added a photo. The Hunter and worker sure have been hunted and worked, but beyond scratches, both blades are in "great shape" One never cut much of anything and was just carried a lot. I then got the idea of getting this friend a Multi-tool.
So silly me asks a Good-guy [and Jared is a good-guy] to allow me to ship him the two knives and have him put a FAIR VALUE on them and send back any multi-tool that represent a "FAIR-TRADE". Sunshine is in this kind of business, so he knows far better than I what those two knives are worth, not to me, not to you, not to Lester, but to anyone seeking "fairness".
He e-mails me and "really likes the knives" he is going to check thru his many Multi-tools and ship back a Fair-Trade tool. Five days later, I get a $30.00 Gerber [www.cheaperthandirt] I can actually get them for $25.00. I ask WHY, he responds "I do not understand. Who stands to lose here? Jared had the two Spydercos a week with no problems, questions or concerns, other than the lost screw in his dishwasher. He answerd my "generic" post and flames me. I am the TROLL So be it, but one HONEST TROLL

I have since sent 10 E-mails with not one response, nothing, zippo, nada. I have begged him, not to take back or send back, but simply answer WHY. I have gotten no response.
The Saddest part of this entire trade is that I would have GIVEN him the knives if he needed them THIS BADLY. I will never understand why someone would shoot themselves in the foot over such a stupid thing as a trade for a $50.00 Multi-tool. [that would have been a fair trade, just a 20 dollar difference!!!!]

So he refuses to answer my mail. BUT another formite, who represents a true member of BF has stepped up to the plate and offered me a trade: The Gerber for a Leatherman Wave. certainly not a FAIR-TRADE but we both realize this was NEVER a money issue, but an issue of HONESTY

Thank you sir for being a true BF Formite. Will I change my way and style of trading? NO, if I have a knife to trade and DO NOT know the value, I will again ship to a formite and ask HIM to place a FAIR VALUE on it.

Jared, AKA sunshine simply needs to answer ONE of my E-mails and tell me why. Or show the photo of the broken tip so I can get the USPS to pay. They were both shipped "Priority/insured with tracking and my pre-ship photos of no broken tip and his allegation one now has a broken tip, MUST HAVE happened in shipping, he just forgot:rolleyes: :rolleyes: to ever mention it. Instead he posted how smooth the trade with wolfmann601 went and only after I privately bitched with zero response, I came here and NOW one of the knives has a broken tip. Funny how the post was edited, is this a FAIR-WAYto deal with another formite?

In the future, do not use the dishwasher:p :p ;) Shalom..........wolf
 
I worked a trade a couple of weeks ago with jbravo. We had talked about a knife I had. I didn't hear from him for a couple of weeks and thought he had moved on to another deal, then he contacts me to get this knife. Between then and now I had made a sheath out of Kydex for the knife and ended up putting two scratches on the back side. I told him about it and let him decide if he was still interested. He agreed, and I offered him two prices on the knife, one if he was going to use the knife (Higher cost), and one if he was going to use it for trading purposes (Lower cost). My logic was the knife was still a great knife, but it wasn't worth as much for trading. Jbravo picked the higher price.

Long winded story but the point I'm trying to make is the deal isn't always about getting the most out of the other party. Will I deal with jbravo again? In a New York minute. Would I deal with a guy that has a reputation of always trying to get the most out of other deals? Probably not.

Your reputation goes a long way on the Internet. Ira has personally proven to me he wants what's good for him and me. Those are the type guys I will trade with.

Mark
 
Ira,
the time has come to walk away from this.
You have stated your case.
Many agree.
If one party is not going to respond, there will not be a resolution.
Learn from this.
Write if off. Don't re-hash it. Let it die.
 
after several days of constant E-mails, I have gotten no response, NOTHING.

So, I should just let this die right? This is one of those
LAWFUL SCREW-JOBS right?

Maybe one day, someone else will trade and ship a knife worth $XXX and get back something that is not even close to a FAIR DEAL

let it Die:p :p :p :rolleyes:
 
The only sin wolfmann has commited at USN is being my friend.
He is now paying a price for it.
Thats friendship.

Why don't you just return the man's knives and be done with it.
Mutual satisfaction is part of the deal is it not.

You are covering your ass.
I suspect that you have either not got the knifes or you broke the tip off one, and cannot return the goods.
 
Let 'er rip guys, but PLEASE clean-up the blood off the floor when you're all done.:).
 
Nah Dann, just close this. I am just Whinning. seems people think it's the MONEY ISSUE, but it's not.

The whole issue is the HONESTY ISSUE. If you cannot deal honestly with another member of BF, then maybe the knife exchange needs more folks like Simon, Mario, Ted Woods, and a few great names in the archives to vist more often.

As very few of you KNOW ME and probably most hope they NEVER DO, allow me to just give you a quick explanation of who I am and why this is a BIG DEAL to me:

I believe that members of a community, such as BF, MUST deal with one another in a HONEST fashion. I think words like INTEGRITY and
CREDIBILITY are far more important than MONETARY VALUE.

This "Trade" with Jared, AKA "Sunshine" was nothing more than finding two knives in my junk drawer. key word is MY. I took photos and tried to find a value in the Spyderco forum right here on BF. No luck. I then posted, with photos that I was looking to trade them for a multi-tool. I made it clear I had no clue to their value. I HOPED another member of BF would help me out. I then posted, with more photos in the trade section. Key word here was FAIR. Sunshine answered and we began to E-mail back and forth. I then shipped them to Jared, so he could evaluate them and place a fair value on them and send back one of his "many" multi-tools. He was to ship one that represented a FAIR-TRADE. key word again is FAIR.

Jared E-mails me to ask if I knew if a screw was missing from one of the belt-clips. He noticed the missing screw AFTER running them thru the Dishwasher. I advised him to look in his dishwasher. Investigation concluded, screw discovered. Jared is happy and posts same in GB&U. Jared E-mails his apology for his delay in shipping the multi-tool. He has been very busy. No problem he is a TRUSTED member of BF. And Jared now owns two 1986-ish Spyderco's, he even dishwashed them!!!

I get a box in the mail from Sunshine and it's a $25.00 Gerber Multi-tool. Not even close to a fair-trade. I E-mail him, and he responds back " I don't understand". That's the last word I have EVER heard via E-mail. Over 20 of my E-mails have gone unanswered. Jared, a member of BF can find the time to post about a broken tip that does NOT exist, and then to annoint me a TROLL of USN, but cannot send me a one sentence E-mail to make this right. Now, this is no longer over Knives, my INTEGRITY and CREDIBILITY have been attacked right here on BF. Now if you do not think that has NOT forever damaged my good name on BF, you are wrong.

It's never been about the money. If you knew me, you would know that. And MIKEMCK since you ran ya mouth, I will E-mail you my address and you can ship me a TNT and stop my whinning. In return I will ship you a Gerber multi-tool and call it a FAIR-TRADE. As it's not a money issue, you should have no problem with this trade.
 
and both contained Multiple photos (13) in each of the EXACT SAME Photo I POSTED Originally.

So where is the Broken tip and who REALLY is the TROLL
Ira:mad: :mad:
 
It is just principal. Here in the faceless word of the web, our word IS our bond. Seems like it was broken here. I for one, will not do business with a guy that screws a buddy. no matter how good the deal seems.
 
Subj: Re: Now I am a TROLL
Date: 1/24/2002 10:15:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Jaredmoon@msn.com
To: Wolfmann601@aol.com
File: bb.zip (703398 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute
Sent from the Internet (Details)





----- Original Message -----
From: Wolfmann601@aol.com
To: jaredmoon@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Now I am a TROLL


Jared:
You took the time to post, now take a moment and tell me why you felt the need to deal in such an underhanded manner? And to lie and say that the tip of one knife was broken, come on Jared, that's so immature. Why don't you answer this and make things right. you know those two Spydercos were worth more than a $30.00 tool. If you wanted them that badly, I would have given them to you.
I suggest you answer me because I will dog you until you do. You owe me approx. $35.00, and I intend to collect it. A deal is a deal Jared, but you forgot the key word....FAIR. now lets resolve this

Ira

>>>>>I find no humor in this, NONE:mad: :mad:
 
Honor or cash.Wolfman please let it lie.Now, in my opinion you are coming out looking like someone you are not.Let it lie, and the thread die.IMHO
 
I saw a few days ago that Ira [Wolfmann] had a 98 Commander that he was willing to trade, I would have traded him my Flat Ground CRKI Sebenza for it in a heartbeat as long as it was in excellent [not necessarily MINT] condition.

Ira sent me a pic, it turned out it was an Emerson SpecWar folder, I advised him of this and at no time did he try to take me or manipulate a picture or ANYTHING ELSE at ALL.

The guy was straight up and honest if he wanted to poke someone, he could have lifted a pic off the net from someone else and sent it to me and banged me for a $350.00 [depending on where you get it] CRK Sebenza.

The guy is straight up and anyone can tell from the pictures that he posted of those two Spydercos that they are worth more than $15.00 a piece.

The other guy should send him his Spydercos back or make up the difference.

"Fair" does not really mean crap to some people. You tell some people that you spent $75.00 on a knife and they will look at you like you are out of your mind, "fair" to them might be something else, Jared knows better from perusing this forum alone.

He took advantage of Ira and he should make it right.

I would never trade with him.
 
Well...I guess I read your,
"I sent you an email Wolfmann,don't do it again",
post wrong then...Being as it was a reference to "Trolls" and you are the USN "Troll" Moderator...I thought you were acting as "TROLL" Moderator...

I apologize if it was a personal matter between the two of you...

PS...They have E-Greetings card for that kind of thing nowdays...
=====================================================================


As far as what is an "issue" here...for me, it's the lies, fuzzy math, vulgar emails, and a pathetic need for attention on Wolfmann's part that led him to create a context here where he could do exactly what he has done...

He was offered a trade, his choice of two multi tools, described by exact model, and was asked for his preference more than once...

He knew exactly what was going to be shipped BEFORE it was sent...A brand new Gerber Sport 600...As it was no surprise as to the tool that was being sent, I was dumbfounded to be accused of trying to "rip him off" upon receiving it...because he could get the tool from a "LE" distributor at a lower cost...

And if I wanted to avoid a "Flame War" I was going to have to make it "Right" "ASAP"...

I replied "I am astounded...What do you want to be satisfied?"

What came next was a series of email, around 50 in number, all very odd, in that never was an answer or solution mentioned...just ruder and more vulgar expressions of what I had tried to do to him...And several very public lies...

I've been here several years and have dealt with many here...If some can beleive this came about because I wanted to con someone out of a couple of $25 used pocket knives, by sending them a new multi-tool that sells for $50+ at my K-Mart...
Well, that means all of you that I've traded with, and have helped me build my collection, got off without being "ripped off" because I have been waiting to do the big con on a couple of $25 users...

This was never about a "Fair Trade"...That was what was offered, accepted, and delivered...

I am still astounded...

I stand by what I've said in this post and in this thread...Because it's the truth...Jared.
 
Ira, I respect you very much and I really hate to see what is happening here. It seems that Sunshine/Jared does not want to address the issue of making this into a fair trade. His posts never mention that at all, or for that matter does he tell us how all of a sudden he ended up with a knife with a broken tip.

You do I think though have to let this thing go. If Jared has not offered to make things right by this point it is obvious that he does not plan to. If this is how Jared responds to another member that is unhappy with a trade then he has lost all respect in my eyes. He can have hundreds of good mentions on Bladeforums, but the fact that I know that he is capable of doing what he has done here would mean that I would never be able to have any kind of dealings with him.

Jared, you seem to be someone that has done many deals that people are happy with. For the life of me I can not understand why you do not want to don't want to deal with this issue. All you have to do is work it out with Ira and my respect for you will be totally restored. Maybe you don't care about whether I respect you or not. That is up to you, but in my eyes, and I think in the eyes of many others, you are not coming off looking very good in this whole matter. Is it worth it for this patheticly small an amount. Think about it.

I am not trying to Flame you Jared. I am trying to understand why you would want to look bad to even one fellow member of BladeForums over such an easy issue to get settled.


Edited because of my terrible typing skills.
 
Originally posted by sunshine
Well now...I guess I read your,
"I sent you an email Wolfmann,don't do it again", post wrong then...Being as it was a reference to "Trolls" and you are the USN "Troll" Moderator...I thought you were acting as "TROLL" Moderator...
I apologize if it was a personal matter between the two of you...

PS...They have E-Greetings card for that kind of thing nowdays...
Click to expand...

Well, apparently you did not understand what it was all about. He was not "trolling." He said something he should not have said, so I did what I had to do.

P.S., Don't drag things into a fray to try to save yourself that have nothing to do with this issue in this thread. Keep your snide E-greetings comments to yourself, you're the one acting like a troll. I'll do my job as I see fit over there and that's it, Skippy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top