Wayne Goddard and so called junk steel......

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Raymond Richard

Raymond Richard

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I've had the privilege of knowing Wayne for 13 or 14 years and have called him one of my best friends for close to 10 years. He has been in the knife business since 1967. He's also been married to the same lady for 50 years and still treats his wife like a princess. As far as I know he has a BS that does not stand for "bull shit" like suggested in a previous thread. He is by far the most honest person I have ever met and normally won't comment on something unless he has knowledge about that subject. Wayne also started OKCA with a friend and the club has been alive and well ever since even though there has been a lot negative bull shit about it the last few years.

Moving onto junk steel. Something that is treated as a taboo on this forum. Why is that? Is it because there is no easy answer to it? I've got to admit every time I see, can I make a blade out of my nose ring it just drives me nuts. Here's how I deal with junk steel. First of all I don't ask someone if this so called junk steel will make a blade. I'll find out for myself and then if it doesn't work I don't blame someone else for its failure. I feel I learn something even if it doesn't work. So many of you look at it as wasted time but then you'll spend half a day on these forums.

I look at knife making as cooking or baking. You can go to the grocery store and buy a instant cake mix. Add water and maybe an egg. Set oven to 400 degree's and wait for first ding when oven is at proper heat. Insert cake pan and remove on second ding. Cool and then frost. Pretty similar to known knife steels.

Using junk steel would be more like making a cake from scratch. Just don't forget the baking soda.
 
Yep.
I do understand when you have a name and a business as a knifemaker. You don't have time to play with heat treatment. Unless, you could get a bunch of it, all the same and know what it is. as in the JD load shafts.

I'm with Ray,I think it teaches us something, even if it's not to ever make a blade out of sewing needles and skoal can lids, again.

BUT the hobby guys and new guys and the ocassional "sentimental knife I think it makes sense.

my .02
 
I also agree. I cut my teeth on salvaged coil springs. After I felt I had become profficient in forging, heat treat and construction methods, I purchaced a good assortment of knife steel. Plus, it was fun to say I made this blade out of "X", and people really respected that for some reason. I think non-knife savvy people are impressed by someone who can make a beautiful and tough knife from a piece of scrap.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another crazy junk vs. known steel arguements. This topic can really ruffle feathers in this forum for some reason.

Wayne sounds like a great guy and his books helped get me started. Maybe someday I can thank him in person.

Brook
 
I can see the arguement on both sides of this. Myself I am fairly new to all of this and I will say that with me starting with known steel helped me out allot, but with that said I do have a project that I want to do with unknown steel. I have a broken crowbar the belonged to my wife's dad who is long been passed away and I want to make her a knife out of that as a kind of rememberance thing. I also have a couple of friends that will make a knife out of a wrench or just about anything else they can find and make great knives out of it. I really admire them for being able to do that. So I have taken the long way around the bush to just say that I think beginners should probably stick with known steel but I believe there is nothing wrong with playing with mystery steel either, kind of cool actually.
 
Raymond,

Just so there isn't any misunderstanding from my end, I have the greatest respect for many makers, Wayne being one of them (as well as yourself). Not knowing him personally but reading about his work and talking with others that do know him, he must really be a great guy. My other thread was not a personal attack against Mr. Goddard but more to help those newer at the trade to understand that the only truth in this world is what you find out for yourself.
 
Raymond Richard said:
I feel I learn something even if it doesn't work. So many of you look at it as wasted time but then you'll spend half a day on these forums.
Click to expand...

Some of the wisest stuff from this thread, right there.

I think what the forum needs is more guys with 10 months under their belts and 4000 posts, spouting all sorts of 'sage' advice. That'll push the rest of the truly incredible knifemakers that used to share here away, for good!


...think I'll go work on knives some more.
 
I think if you are making knives out of junk steel as a hobby and past time, great, but if you are selling to the public, I believe you should give them your best. That would be a known steel with proven heat treat methods, not just a good guess that you got it right, because you have guessed it to be a steel that in reality, it may not be. When you sell a knife to a customer made from a specific steel, with a proven HT, you can tell him what kind of performance he can expect from the knife, and in some cases, what he cannot expect it to do. The analogy of baking a cake would be a good example, except the obvious was left out. The obvious is that if you want the cake to come out right, you buy the necessary ingredients, and go by a proven recipe. If you were making a cake for yourself, then you can do it anyway you want. If you were making it for important guests, it may be wise to use a proven method and choice ingredients to lessen the chance of disappointment.
 
LRB said:
The analogy of baking a cake would be a good example, except the obvious was left out. The obvious is that if you want the cake to come out right, you buy the necessary ingredients, and go by a proven recipe. If you were making a cake for yourself, then you can do it anyway you want. If you were making it for important guests, it may be wise to use a proven method and choice ingredients to lessen the chance of disappointment.
Click to expand...

I think that only holds true in some instances. If the baker is a master baker then he has the skills and know how to do a great cake with maybe not top high dollar off the shelf ingredients. I use known steel my self and love knowing what it is but if i came across a stack of leaf springs i would not pass them by or a giant coil spring. a lot of it depends on the skills and EXPERIENCE of the knife maker. Like i said, i use know steel and i don't look down at other makers because thy don't, heck there knives could be better then mine. you never know with how the steel indrustry is going we might all have to use junk steel as there might not be any other kind :rolleyes: then who will have the advantage ;). All i say is have fun and if you sell a knife tell the customer everything.
 
Wayne has been in the business a long time and has paid his dues. I have never heard anything negative about his knives in terms of performance. He does good work! I'm sure many of his knives have been used and used hard,... and have stood the test of time, by now.

Although we may not all agree with all of his methods, he has made a life's work of the craft, and helped make it grow into what it is today. I think the man deserves a little thanks, and some respect.

I don't see the point of trying to "demonize" him, or others like him, who have been sincere, and made so many good contributions to the craft we now enjoy.

Wayne deserves a lot of credit...
 
Thanks Wayne, indeed. I always thought I would like to do the ABS journeyman performance testing with him as mastersmith, because his books were really what made me believe I could get started in knifemaking. (Jim Hrisoulas, too.) His dumpster-diving, yard sale mentality really appealed to me as I love finding great rusty stuff and making tools, simple machines, etc. from it. I've moved on to using mostly known steels too, but man it's cool to make a knife from a hay rake tooth or railroad spike now and then.

My thanks to Jim Hrisoulas as well.
 
Dr. Jim H. is also one of the "masters" so many ride on the coat tails of...

Don Fogg, Jim Schmidt, Ed Fowler, Jimmy Fikes, Jerry Fisk, Bill Moran,... (maybe even yours truly)... To ALL the collective ancestral smiths and brothers who came before now... who have made this industry what it is today.

Thanks to all! :)

Give credit where credit is due, I always say!
 
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JTknives said:
I think that only holds true in some instances. If the baker is a master baker then he has the skills and know how to do a great cake with maybe not top high dollar off the shelf ingredients. I use known steel my self and love knowing what it is but if i came across a stack of leaf springs i would not pass them by or a giant coil spring. a lot of it depends on the skills and EXPERIENCE of the knife maker. Like i said, i use know steel and i don't look down at other makers because thy don't, heck there knives could be better then mine. you never know with how the steel indrustry is going we might all have to use junk steel as there might not be any other kind :rolleyes: then who will have the advantage ;). All i say is have fun and if you sell a knife tell the customer everything.
Click to expand...

A master baker making a cake for a customer would use only those ingredients and methodology he knows and trusts. Why is it that YOU use known steel? Could it be because you know how to HT it properly, and with a known, or at the very least, an expected outcome?
 
I have to admit Ray,whenever I see one of your knives posted I always read to see what it's made from.This is coming from a guy that has a pile of buggy springs,wagon wheel rims and other old farm metals in his shop :thumbup:
Mystery steel is fun,if you like working for your results.But that's my take on it YMMV!
$50 knife shop was a great book to start off with and I thank Mr.Goddard for it.
 
LRB said:
A master baker making a cake for a customer would use only those ingredients and methodology he knows and trusts. Why is it that YOU use known steel? Could it be because you know how to HT it properly, and with a known, or at the very least, an expected outcome?
Click to expand...

One of the main reasons i use known steel is because its cheeper, i don't have a place to really get scrap. the scrap yard here in town does not sell to people any more and wont even let you walk around there yard :(. another reason is i don't believe i have the required skills to work the unknown steels yet. I have Tons of respect for those that do. I am with Tai Goo in that respect needs to be payed to those the deserve it. If your customers are happy and you have fun what does it mater what you use. If a customer buys a knife knowing that its made from a huge 5 foot tall coil spring ;) and there more then happy with the knife then thats all the matters. I really like the makers that reach back to the roots of knife making to bring something back that at sometimes seams lost it our world filled with high tech stuff.
 
Ray, well said. I don't personally know Wayne, but first starting out his and Ed Fowler's books were my life line that lead me to believe that I could one day actualy make a knife.

I don't do much with "junk" steels anymore, don't have the time. But I still like to play with it once in a while and your absolutly rite about learning something from it. I'm not a metalurgist or an expert, but learning to heat treat mystery steel teaches you a heck of a lot about heat treating.

Thanks Wayne and Ed.
 
Raymond Richard said:
Here's how I deal with junk steel. First of all I'll find out for myself and then if it doesn't work I don't blame someone else for its failure. I feel I learn something even if it doesn't work. So many of you look at it as wasted time but then you'll spend half a day on these forums.

Using junk steel would be more like making a cake from scratch. Just don't forget the baking soda.
Click to expand...

Tai Goo said:
Although we may not all agree with all of his methods, he has made a life's work of the craft, and helped make it grow into what it is today. I think the man deserves a little thanks, and some respect.

I don't see the point of trying to "demonize" him, or others like him, who have been sincere, and made so many good contributions to the craft we now enjoy.

Wayne deserves a lot of credit...
Click to expand...

I agree to the fullest. It doesn't have to be rocket science just enjoy what your doing.
 
I don't even believe what I've read in a couple of these threads, I've never met
Wayne but can tell you I attribute a lot of my successes to having learned what I did
from his book "The wonder of Knifemaking" and I'm not even a hammer jockey. With the
above being said, for today the bills are paid and the orders keep coming in, maybe that
dosen't mean a lot to someone whose made 10 knives.
Ken.
 
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