Weak PM2 detent and disappointing Spyderco warranty service.

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I find it funny to read so many posts with people saying 'send it to Spyderco, they will take care of you. Spyderco is awesome dood!' The reality is there are quite a few posts like yours where the customer is not satisfied with the service they receive. I bet a good majority of those people saying they will take care of you have no experience with their service and are just parroting what they have heard others say or what they imagine their favorite company would do when there is a problem.

I haven't had very good luck either. You are really out of luck if there is a problem with a Sprint run knife because they don't have extras or parts. Can be a big let down after waiting nearly a year for the knife. In the future I will send a knife back to the retailer and hope they can make things right.

Sprint run Paramilitary 2 use the same parts as the standard paramilitary 2 apart from the brown scales, and steel blade. It's been shown that the parts are indeed transferable, some people have done hardware/blade swaps.

Lastly Spyderco has a good reputation for service.

@Broonzbane
Broonz, the world isn't perfect and it isn't the manufacturer's responsibility to make sure you are happy with a 100% working knife. You have a preference in detent. Return the knife, or sell it and buy something else.

No they seriously don't have to do whatever it takes to make you happy.
A fair transaction was made: You paid $*** to a dealer, and you got a knife that is deemed by the mfg to be in specs.
If you don't think it's worth it, return it. Spyderco doesn't owe you anything, and neither do you owe them anything. If you were seeking special treatment, then you should have contacted Spyderco and asked before hand. Get it in writting, and see if they will treat you special, for a $100 knife.
We get customers like this once in a while, Spyderco took the right approach.

The Manix 2 has a weak detent because the locking mechanism is the detent. It's a bummer but perfectly understandable when you understand the locking mechanism design.
 
The Manix 2 has a weak detent because the locking mechanism is the detent. It's a bummer but perfectly understandable when you understand the locking mechanism design.

Is that a commonly held view? In my experience, the M2 has one of the best Spydie detents.
 
This whole topic is no different in any other customer service department concerning ANYTHING. People take from it what they want and run with it. If someone likes a company all they see is positive reviews until something bad happens to them. When someone doesn't get what they want all they see is negative. What you want and what you deserve are two different things. Spyderco has a tolerance for things like this, and every knife is tested before shipping out and falls somewhere in that tolerance. They don't make custom knives and as such can't cater to each individual's taste as far as how tight a detent is. You could pick up 10 Para 2's and they all feel different. You should try calling customer service and explaining to them WHY you're unhappy and see if they'll exchange it for a different knife, but there's nothing WRONG with this knife, it just falls to one end of the tolerance scale. It's no different than heat treat or fit and finish, they all vary from one knife to the next. They also don't have time to sit and type out a personal letter to each person who sends in a knife. Imagine the kind of time that would take. They looked at the knife, it operated within spec, and so they shipped it back to you. Call CS and see what they can do as far as exchanging the knife, otherwise I suggest putting it up for sale or even trade for one with a tighter detent, there's at least one person in this thread who has said they prefer their detents just strong enough to keep the blade from falling open.
 
Is that a commonly held view? In my experience, the M2 has one of the best Spydie detents.

Can you flick your Manix 2 open?

And yes it really is, kind of makes sense. The detent is not terribly weak at all, and I doubt it would open in my pocket however I can easily flick it open.
The way the mechanism work is:
When the blade opens, the spring pushes the cage ball (or axis lock) into a cavity in the blade. Effectively locking it.
When the blade closes the same spring pushes the cage ball (or axist lock) into a notch in the blade. Due to the notch shape, it does not lock it at all but simply provides the spring's tension to help keep it closed.

So basically the tension when open, and closed is the same. So if the tension is too strong, chances are it will be hard to disengage but will have a strong detent. If you need a easier disengage, then you sacrifice the detent tension.
It's just a matter of balancing the two, which imho spyderco has done well.
 
Can you flick your Manix 2 open?

I agree that the Manix 2 has an excellent detent. I can't speak for him, but I can flick my Manix 2 light weight open. It didn't come this way, but after putting a little Tuf-Glide on the pivot I can.
 
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread. No one has a clue how light the detent is on his knife. If the blade really comes out of the handle with a light flip, then it isn't safe. Everyone is talking about "specs" like they put it in some kind of machine to test it. I highly doubt anything more happens then some employee tugging on the blade. Who knows, maybe there was a new guy and he checked it out and thought it was ok. Maybe it is OK. But no one in this thread has a clue except the owner of the knife. Maybe he can post a video of how easy it opens and then we would all have an idea of how light the detent is. Mistakes happen. Even by the almighty Spyderco.
 
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread. No one has a clue how light the detent is on his knife. If the blade really comes out of the handle with a light flip, then it isn't safe. Everyone is talking about "specs" like they put it in some kind of machine to test it. I highly doubt anything more happens then some employee tugging on the blade. Who knows, maybe there was a new guy and he checked it out and thought it was ok. Maybe it is OK. But no one in this thread has a clue except the owner of the knife. Maybe he can post a video of how easy it opens and then we would all have an idea of how light the detent is. Mistakes happen. Even by the almighty Spyderco.

Mistakes also happen by the almighty customer.
The OP already sent the knife to Spyderco and spyderco did not find issues with it and sent it back.

It's clear the OP insists on receiving special treatment. He himself has acknowledged and ignored that the knife is in specs. He wants Spyderco to fix his concern regardless of not being part of warranty because he's the customer and the customer is always right. What part of what the OP thinks he's entitled to matches either one of these topics: warranty, or customer service?

What he should have done is made a deal with the dealer he bought it from before hand.
"If I pay you $*** money, can you please inspect and check which knife has: [insert important characteristics of knives here]."

I know I've asked two vendors to do this for me, and even offered to pay a inspection fee. They agreed to inspect but did not want payment for it.
 
We get customers like this once in a while, Spyderco took the right approach.

I find it interesting you can reach such a conclusion without ever handling this knife. Whatever.

How difficult would have been for Spyderco to swap out the knife? Not difficult at all. What a simple solution that would have been! At little to no cost or effort to them they keep a customer happy.

Again, the burden of customer satisfaction does not fall on the customer.

After getting an unsatisfactory meal at a restaurant, is the restaurant not to blame for failing to meeting your expectations? What is the customer supposed to do? Suck it up and keep going back to restaurant hoping that the law of averages will someday play to his/her favor and finally result in a palatable meal?

No. You voice your dissatisfaction. And if the restaurant values your business, they'll go out of their way to fix the problem. Simple as that. It's good business.

Of all the knives I own (incl. high dollar Benchmades), my Spydercos are the best knives I own. But once you get a customer, the work is not over. You gotta continue to work in order to keep them. Ergo my disappointment.

I have nothing left to contribute to this thread . . . No more rejoinders from me.
 
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread. No one has a clue how light the detent is on his knife. If the blade really comes out of the handle with a light flip, then it isn't safe. Everyone is talking about "specs" like they put it in some kind of machine to test it. I highly doubt anything more happens then some employee tugging on the blade. Who knows, maybe there was a new guy and he checked it out and thought it was ok. Maybe it is OK. But no one in this thread has a clue except the owner of the knife. Maybe he can post a video of how easy it opens and then we would all have an idea of how light the detent is. Mistakes happen. Even by the almighty Spyderco.

+1

Broonzbane
 
About 3 years ago(roughly) I got one of my "grail" knives from Spyderco.
A Spyderco Civilian. No real use, just thought it looked awsome and wanted one.
Spyderco was one of my favorite companies, and I always loved hawkbill/kerambit blades.
Just a few days after I got it I was sitting at the house playing with my new knife,
opening and closing it, feeling the edge, etc. You guys know. And then when I closed it
some how(I guess the back spring was weak?) the tip, which curves in dramatically,
hit the inside of the backspring. It chipped off about 5-6mm of the tip.
I cried a little. When I looked inside the knife I could see where the tip hit easily.
It was the only scratch inside the backspring. Seems to be an obvious mfg flaw.
So I sent it in to Spyderco with a detailed letter of what happened. After about 6 weeks
I got it back in the mail, no repairs were made and they sent me a letter saying basically
that it was my fault and to get lost. I called multiple times and spoke to a few different reps.
They all told me that they couldn't help and that the cs rep who inspected it was the last word.

Short version, spent all the $ I had on thier knife.
It was flawed and then broke due to said flaw.
They refused to help me either by repair or by exchange.
I've passed on a bunch of thier knives since then, even though
I really wanted them(Manix2xl and Endura 4 most recently), because of that experiance.

Edited for add on:
You know, I wasn't a Bladeforums member back then, I wish I could
have spoken to Sal when that happened. I'd love know what he might have
said or done in responce... Might have ended different?
 
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I have nothing left to contribute to this thread . . . No more rejoinders from me.

I'm going to reverse myself to take FlaMtnBkr's suggestion by posting a video:

[video=youtube;sxxb4G_uJY0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxb4G_uJY0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I couldn't shake the blade out of my other PM2 so easily if my life depended upon it. Mind you, I'm not touching the compression lock at all.

Am I really asking too much to expect that a knife rolling off the assembly line today perform in a similar fashion to one that rolled of the same assembly line just a few months ago? Really?
 
I find it interesting you can reach such a conclusion without ever handling this knife. Whatever.

How difficult would have been for Spyderco to swap out the knife? Not difficult at all. What a simple solution that would have been! At little to no cost or effort to them they keep a customer happy.

Again, the burden of customer satisfaction does not fall on the customer.

After getting an unsatisfactory meal at a restaurant, is the restaurant not to blame for failing to meeting your expectations? What is the customer supposed to do? Suck it up and keep going back to restaurant hoping that the law of averages will someday play to his/her favor and finally result in a palatable meal?

No. You voice your dissatisfaction. And if the restaurant values your business, they'll go out of their way to fix the problem. Simple as that. It's good business.

Of all the knives I own (incl. high dollar Benchmades), my Spydercos are the best knives I own. But once you get a customer, the work is not over. You gotta continue to work in order to keep them. Ergo my disappointment.

I have nothing left to contribute to this thread . . . No more rejoinders from me.

So let me put this into perspective using side by side comparison.
1. You order a meal at a restaurant. You buy a spyderco knife.
2. You receive the meal and it's unsatisfactory. You receive the knife, it's unsatisfactory.
3. You ask the restaurant to make it right and they obviously take your concern seriously, so they have their chef try it and finds that the food is good. You send the knife in for warranty work because the detent is not to your liking, so they have their warranty department look at it instead of just reject the package.
4. You reject the restaurants chef's professional opinion. You reject Spyderco's professional opinion.
5. You demand extra service from the restaurant even though their chef sampled your food and found it good under the pretense that it is customer service? (replace restaurant/chef with spyderco) Where in the sale of goods does it say this special treatment is included? What laws give you these rights?

Seriously it sounds to me like you demand a lot, and offer little in return. We sometimes get customers like you, for a measly sum you expect a problem free world and if any problem occurs whether imagined, or real you expect a free solution. Sorry doesn't work that way.

As to answer your question: Is it the restaurants responsibility to not meet your expectations? I don't know, depends because you would need a baseline to see if your expectations are in sync with reality.
If I went to two restaurants, each serving the SAME exact dish with the same overheads (costs to serve the meal). One charged $35, the other charged $15 then I would say my expectations of the more expensive restaurant would be pretty high compared to the cheaper restaurant, if they don't meet my expectations with better service, I would simply tell them the truth: their competition is priced more fairly, and the difference in cost is not reflected in their service. If they offered a refund I would accept it ONLY if I did not enjoy the meal. If I enjoyed it, then a refund certainly is not needed.

However if that $35 restaurant is offering me a food I cannot find elsewhere for considerably less than $35, then no I wouldn't blame them for not meeting my expectations I would blame my self for not having the money or knowledge to go somewhere that would meet my expectations.

In order words if I haven't gone else where, and found the same meal whether it's cheaper, or more expensive then I don't have anything concrete to base my expectations from do I?
 
I'm going to reverse myself to take FlaMtnBkr's suggestion by posting a video:

[video=youtube;sxxb4G_uJY0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxb4G_uJY0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I couldn't shake the blade out of my other PM2 so easily if my life depended upon it. Mind you, I'm not touching the compression lock at all.

Am I really asking too much to expect that a knife rolling off the assembly line today perform in a similar fashion to one that rolled of the same assembly line just a few months ago? Really?

Thanks for providing proof at last, now we're talking objectively.
Definitely looks a bit weak imho but I am not spyderco. I would just fix it my self, my ZT also had a weak detent after getting fixed just had to clean it out.

If you feel comfortable, I would advise opening one side of the knife and removing the blade and rinsing it under water. There may be some grime or lube on the detent hole, for some reason my three Spyderco's haven't come super clean out of the factory.
 
This is not the forum for complaints about Spyderco. Here, for many, Spyderco's position is some kind of unquestionable standard -- beyond question. Minds being made up, do not attempt to spread confusion with facts.
 
As far as Sprint runs, the blade is usually what makes it a sprint. If there is an issue with the blade you are out of luck. If a Sprint run is made overseas you are out of luck because they don't stock parts. With their CQI it makes it impossible to stock parts for everything.

And I have read far more stories of problems with Spyderco customer service than other companies. Including my own multiple experiences. Not sure you can call that a good reputation though I'm sure they are helpful some of the time. How many companies void the warranty because you took it apart? Yeah Benchmade says the same thing but if you get the knife back together they don't care, even when it was obviously taken apart because of modifications or whatnot. Spyderco actually looks for signs of disassembly to void the warranty. And I have a lot of boxes and inserts that say nothing about disassembly voiding the warranty. It was stated in a post on their forums that is probably buried by now. That doesn't really seem right and I'm sure if someone got a lawyer they wouldn't have a leg to stand on to void a warranty like that. Obviously not worth it, but again, not sure I would say they have a good reputation. The other 2 companies of the big 3 have a good reputation. Even SOG you hear good things. I still like Spyderco and own more of them than any other brand (around 40). But I make sure to inspect a knife really good when I get it so I can return it to the retailer if there is an issue and take care of it that way. I'm not going to sugar coat something or pretend they have a great customer service/ warranty dept when I have had multiple issues and you can read about a lot of other people that have had problems. It is what it is. And it has only been recently that you hear of them sending out a few screws and washers to people in the US. So maybe they are trying to address some of the criticisms that have been brought up on the forums.
 
We sometimes get customers like you, for a measly sum you expect a problem free world and if any problem occurs whether imagined, or real you expect a free solution. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Gosh, thanks for the 'customers like you' status to which I've been demoted. It's obvious from your condescending tone that the concept of outstanding customer service is completely lost on you. If you cannot understand that the manufacturer sometimes has to take a few lumps--however undeserving he may view them to be--in order to make his/her customers happy, then I can't help you, Luis.

And yes, sorry, it DOES work that way. If it doesn't in your organization, your business model is in need of improvement. But, hey! Keep looking down your nose at 'customers like me--the ones who keep you on your toes by keeping the expectations sky high. Keep churning out the mediocrity!! The customer is expendable.

NOW I am done here. Signing off . . .

broonzbane
 
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J would not be happy with that PM2 either broonzbane. If I shake my brown sprint REALLY hard, I can get the blade depoloyed like in your video. Your blade shakes loose way too easy in my opinion.
 
Gosh, thanks for the 'customers like you' status to which I've been demoted. It's obvious from your condescending tone that the concept of outstanding customer service is completely lost on you. If you cannot understand that the manufacturer sometimes has to take a few lumps--however undeserving he may view them to be--in order to make his/her customers happy, then I can't help you, Luis.

And yes, sorry, it DOES work that way. If it doesn't in your organization, your business model is in need of improvement. But, hey! Keep looking down your nose at 'customers like me--the ones who keep you on your toes by keeping the expectations sky high. Keep churning out the mediocrity!! The customer is expendable.

NOW I am done here. Signing off . . .

broonzbane

Broonz think about it, seriously think about it. All of this was caused by one simple mistake: You were not clear with what you wanted at the time of purchase.
Just as a contract for services or work, purchases of goods entitles you to certain rights by law or by mfg claims at times. It does not entitle you to after transaction clauses that you add on your own.
1. You did not communicate your requirements to the dealer nor spyderco before purchase to see if the product you would buy would meet them. You wrongfully assumed the knife would be identical to the one you owned, which is not the case.
2. Spyderco has their own standards independent of you, the customer or of other companies.
3. When you noticed it did not fit your requirements (which were not mentioned before the purchase of goods) you began to add clauses to the transaction terms after the fact.
4. When you sent your knife in the Spyderco, they found the knife to be in their specifications.
5. Now you say they need to replace it, all under the pretense of YOUR definition of what customer service is. Never mind Spyderco's stance on it is.

Why not just sell the knife, and make sure next time you buy another knife that you talk to the dealer or mfg beforehand?
 
I think you did right posting here AFTER you sent it in.
What I can't understand is folks telling you to send it back AGAIN and Spyderco will make it right after they failed to make it right the first time.

Lucky this hasn't happened to me, but this is not the first time I've heard of Spyderco doing this.

I am disappointed and it's not even my knife
 
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