Weak PM2 detent and disappointing Spyderco warranty service.

[mr_anderson]

Roger is a great guy and KW always take care of you. They took a knife back just because I didn't like it.

 

[pbcg]

For many they don't have the luxury of a retail store in their area that carries knives to be able to inspect a knife prior to purchasing. I know for me that's certainly the case. I am forced to buy all my knives on-line because of this and almost never have the opportunity to inspect a knife prior to purchasing. I'd gladly pay more at a retail store to inspect a knife first but for me and many others it's not an option.

I've always felt that if the problem was a defect in manufacture, it's appropriate to return it to the manufacture for warranty repair or replacement. So I can understand the OP's doing so.

The very few times I've had to return a knife to the manufacture the companies customer service was top notch so I never had a problem. I guess what I can take from this thread is if it's a Spyderco knife I'm better off returning it to the retailer.

Personally a strong or weak detent never really bothered me one way or the other. I'm not sensitive about it. However, after watching the OP's video I think his complaint / concern is legitimate and his knife should have been repaired or replaced.

 

[brownshoe]

PBCG, when you buy a new Zebco reel at Wallmart, take it home, open the box, and it does not work...you take it back to Wallmart. You don't send it to Zebco.

Same deal with the internet. You'll get quicker better service if you send it back to the supplier, not the manufacturer. That's the way America works, it's not unique to Spyderco.

 

[pbcg]

That's not exactly true. Many products, depending say on the warranty card NOT to return it to the retailer but the factory. My microwave from K-Mart actually said that. Also, Walmart or whatever retailer I purchase from is presumably within range to return it. In the case of on-line purchases you have to return it via the mail either way and many on-line retailers make you pay the shipping and restock fee's. When it's a legitimate warranty issue the company often picks up the shipping and will mail you a return label or refund your costs. At least the good one's do.

However and not withstanding the above, both methods of return are acceptable and consistent with the "Ameriacn Way". At least in my experience.

But what's your point? The OP did everything right. He returned the knife with a detailed letter explaining the problem and Spyderco's customer service dropped the ball. Period. Now plan B is making it Rogers problem because Spyderco won't do the right thing?

That really should be the focus here. Not trying to find every reason, excuse or rationalization in the book to somehow fault or divert blame to the OP.

I believe in holding a company responsible for the products they produce. Mistakes happen, especially with production knives and thing's slip threw the cracks. I get that. It's how a company handles the issue that speaks volumes and can set them apart. I believe that's also the way America works....

 

[cncpro11]

PBCG, when you buy a new Zebco reel at Wallmart, take it home, open the box, and it does not work...you take it back to Wallmart. You don't send it to Zebco.

Same deal with the internet. You'll get quicker better service if you send it back to the supplier, not the manufacturer. That's the way America works, it's not unique to Spyderco.

Here is a snapshot of the warranty on the back of the box of my brand new Para 2.

Please tell me where it says that defective knives must be returned to vendor or service will be refused.

On the other hand, I do find it unfortunate that Spyderco will refuse warranty service if a person disassembles their own knife.

I always thought the way American companies worked best was by standing behind the products they manufacture and sell to Americans, not sending there defective items back with a zerox letter saying "sorry, but you are SOL!"

Edit:
I also find it unfortunate that Blade Forum members can't stand behind a fellow member who did everything right in sending the knife back before starting a thread, but would rather stand behind a company that is willing to take his money yet refuse to provide service.

I think I am much more disappointed in BFC members than Spyderco.

 

[cncpro11]

Snapshot.

 

[Fancier]

Sometimes I buy a product that I don't fall in love with. Fortunately the internet works both ways, both as a buying tool and a selling tool.
If the product isn't defective, but you don't want it any more, exercise a little free market initiative and let somebody take it off your hands.
I am confident that someone out there wants a Para 2 with the "wrist flick" opening action as displayed in the video.

 

[EZ Bake]

Okay you purchased it from reputable dealer. In the future if you have a problem like this regardless of the brand you really should return it to the dealer rather than the manufacture. It will not only be quicker and easier this way but it is also part of their job as a dealer.

This. Always use the vendor - especially good ones like KW.




OP,

So the knife worked perfectly at first, but after a short period of use, the detent got weaker (or you only noticed after a short period of use)?

Have you tried washing it? Is it possible that some dirt or debris got into the detent-hole?

 

[Thomas Linton]

With no source in my area, I bought my last Spyderco, a Puukko, off the Internet. When it proved to be defective, the retailer told me emphatically that if I sent it to him, he would refuse to accept it - that I should send it directly to Spyderco. So I learned about that retailer and, eventually, Spyderco.

 

[brownshoe]

I got sidetracked, the point is the knife is not defective. One man's perfect detent is too tight for another, this is personal preference, not defect. It goes back to the supplier.

I deal with reputable on line dealers, which means no restocking fees...

Even if it is defective, all of the online dealers I use will take any knife back within a set time period w/o charge.

 

[broonzbane]

PBCG, when you buy a new Zebco reel at Wallmart, take it home, open the box, and it does not work...you take it back to Wallmart. You don't send it to Zebco.

Same deal with the internet. You'll get quicker better service if you send it back to the supplier, not the manufacturer. That's the way America works, it's not unique to Spyderco.

But you don't send a fishing reel back to WalMart for warranty repair--you send it back to Zebco.

 

[broonzbane]

This. Always use the vendor - especially good ones like KW.




OP,

So the knife worked perfectly at first, but after a short period of use, the detent got weaker (or you only noticed after a short period of use)?

Have you tried washing it? Is it possible that some dirt or debris got into the detent-hole?

No, the detent was weak from the moment I took it out of the box. After about 2 days of contemplating what to do about it, I decided to send it back to Spyderco for warranty repair. No joy.

 

[broonzbane]

I got sidetracked, the point is the knife is not defective.

There's positively no way you can make that assessment without handling the knife yourself. None whatsoever.

The video I posted really doesn't illustrate just how easily this knife opens.

broonzbane

 

[broonzbane]

I also find it unfortunate that Blade Forum members can't stand behind a fellow member who did everything right in sending the knife back before starting a thread, but would rather stand behind a company that is willing to take his money yet refuse to provide service.

I think I am much more disappointed in BFC members than Spyderco.

+1

Thanks, cncpro. Much appreciated.

Broonzbane

 

[pbcg]

Broonzbane,

Unfortunately, as we all know the PM2 is one of the most sought after production knives right now and I'll bet the dealer couldn't replace it even if he wanted to. They seem to be perpetually out of stock.

A refund is about the best I think you will do. KW is top notch. One of the best in my opinion so I know they will help you if they can but if what you want is a properly functioning and adjusted PM2 your best recourse is probably threw the manufacture. You can still call KW just the same and ask, never know It can't hurt right?

I know you've already been threw it but it couldn't hurt to call Spyderco this time either. Ask to speak to a technician in CS and see what you can get done.

Either way best of luck to you. I really hope you get this sorted out.

 

[EZ Bake]

There's positively no way you can make that assessment without handling the knife yourself. None whatsoever.

The video I posted really doesn't illustrate just how easily this knife opens.

broonzbane

Fair enough and for the record, I don't doubt your story, but as you've said - nobody here could make the assessment that the detent was strong enough, but it sounds like Spyderco made the assessment that it was. It is entirely possible that Spyderco missed this one. It's also entirely possible that you have slightly higher expectations than Spyderco does for what a detent should feel like.

I don't think the blade should be able to easily shake open, but I'll be honest, if it had a weak detent and it were me, I'd definitely look for dirt in the detent-hole or do some basic trouble-shooting before sending it back to the manufacturer.

If you're going to clean/test/troubleshoot it yourself you can do a few things without taking the knife apart and voiding the warranty. I'd loosen the pivot and wash with soap/water and use compressed air to see if you can get some of the potential crud out. If the knife is actually out-of-whack, it's possible that the tang is contacting the stop-pin early and preventing the detent from going all the way into the detent-hole. An easy way to check this is to loosen the stop-pin just a bit and gently open it and close it to see if the detent "rocks into place". If this works, you might be able to spin the stop-pin a little bit and see if the tang rests on it further/thus allowing the detent/detent-hole to seat properly.

Out of curiosity, is the blade-centered when closed? Any blade-play in either axis? Sticky lock (how's the lock-up - early/late)?


For the record, I've owned (or still own) around 14 Paramilitary-2s and I've never experienced a weak detent on one (I have experienced a weak detent on a Super-Leaf, but I decided to tinker with it and was able to fix it as I really didn't want to be without it for the time it would take to send it back).

 

[broonzbane]

Fair enough and for the record, I don't doubt your story, but as you've said - nobody here could make the assessment that the detent was strong enough, but it sounds like Spyderco made the assessment that it was. It is entirely possible that Spyderco missed this one. It's also entirely possible that you have slightly higher expectations than Spyderco does for what a detent should feel like.

I don't think the blade should be able to easily shake open, but I'll be honest, if it had a weak detent and it were me, I'd definitely look for dirt in the detent-hole or do some basic trouble-shooting before sending it back to the manufacturer.

If you're going to clean/test/troubleshoot it yourself you can do a few things without taking the knife apart and voiding the warranty. I'd loosen the pivot and wash with soap/water and use compressed air to see if you can get some of the potential crud out. If the knife is actually out-of-whack, it's possible that the tang is contacting the stop-pin early and preventing the detent from going all the way into the detent-hole. An easy way to check this is to loosen the stop-pin just a bit and gently open it and close it to see if the detent "rocks into place". If this works, you might be able to spin the stop-pin a little bit and see if the tang rests on it further/thus allowing the detent/detent-hole to seat properly.

Out of curiosity, is the blade-centered when closed? Any blade-play in either axis? Sticky lock (how's the lock-up - early/late)?


For the record, I've owned (or still own) around 14 Paramilitary-2s and I've never experienced a weak detent on one (I have experienced a weak detent on a Super-Leaf, but I decided to tinker with it and was able to fix it as I really didn't want to be without it for the time it would take to send it back).

I appreciate your input, but my level of confidence in disassembling the knife is not terribly high--I'm not a tinkerer, and I'd be voiding the warranty. But hey, the warranty doesn't seem to be doing me any good anyway.

I'll try the remedies you suggested that don't require disassembly and see how that goes. Beyond that, if the knife needs to be disassembled to correct the problem, then it should be Spyderco that does it. That's what the warranty should cover.

 

[FCM415]

Love KW. I've had two situations where I received a funky knife and they took care of me outright. This was out of many times where I received an ideal piece...

I received a limited grey Griptilian that had tolerances not to my liking compared to my other Griptilians (excessive blade play and off centering). I gave them a call and requested a refund. They offered to replace it also but that may not be possible with PM2s, but if you are unhappy with it, send it back! Real simple: They give you an RMA number to write on the return package, mail it out, when they receive it voila, you get your money back.

This past week, I received a ZDP Manbug which had a threaded screw on the handle. This was a warranty issue and I could have sent it to Spyderco, but you should expect to receive a product in good working order when ordering from a dealer. I called them, told them the situation, opted for an exchange, and several days after shipping the faulty knife back to them, voila I received an issue free Manbug.

I have learned to be thrifty which means that most of the things I purchase; knives or otherwise is thru the internet. Both could have been warranty issues, but every time this happens where I am unsatisfied with a product, I let the retailer handle it. I suppose that going thru the manufacturer is an option, and I read some of you arguing that that is the way to go but I disagree. Given the option, it is much easier to go through the retailer and buying something from a store, I expect a good working product, and if I receive something broken brand new from Cabella's, BestBuy, Walmart, Amazon, or wherever you best believe that's who I'll be getting in touch with. Even Ebay knife dealers honor defective refunds from my expereice. With that being said, if you want to go through the manufacturer more power to you, you should be able to do that also. I just find it to be a easier going through the dealer, we're not talking about a knife breaking 5 months after purchase here. It arrived in unsatisfactory condition to you from the dealer.

Good luck and I hope this gets resolved. It's a great knife and you should be happy owning it.

 

[FCM415]

I don't think the blade should be able to easily shake open, but I'll be honest, if it had a weak detent and it were me, I'd definitely look for dirt in the detent-hole

Hmm, could be the culprit.

Agree that checking for this and other troubleshooting is tough to do when opening it voids the warranty. Even though I would tinker with it, taking that chance is up to you.

 

[broonzbane]

Broonzbane,

Unfortunately, as we all know the PM2 is one of the most sought after production knives right now and I'll bet the dealer couldn't replace it even if he wanted to. They seem to be perpetually out of stock.

A refund is about the best I think you will do.

This played a huge factor in my decision to send it back to Spyderco for repair vs. back to the retailer for refund. The wait for this knife was agonizing, and once I got it, I didn't want to let it go . . .