Weak PM2 detent and disappointing Spyderco warranty service.

[broonzbane]

For the record, I have more Spyderco's in my collection than any other brand, and am not a hater by any means.

Me neither!!! In fact, Spyderco, IMHO is creating the highest value knives at their price point of any manufacturer in the industry. Try to get a better comparable knife than the PM2 for the same amount of money and you won't be able to do it. As good as it is, my Griptilian is gathering dust.

I entered this hobby with a Kershaw Blur. Then I got a Rake. From there I graduated to Benchmade witha Grip and a mini-Grip. I thought my search for the perfect E D C was over until I started reading more and more about Spyderco.

The bug bit me, and I grabbed a Manix 2! Perfect in every way--or so I thought. A tad heavy, but I like a knife with some heft. I thought that I might like a lighter knife with comparable ergonomics and a FFG blade if such a knife existed.

Nutnfancy's review of the PM2 opened my eyes. Bought my first last November, and I knew instantly that this knife is almost in a class by itself. Satisfies every need that I have . . .

I'd never pay the prices commanded by the Sebenzas, Hinderers and Striders available today. I'd want to put them on a shelf and not use them, and I'm not the collector type.

So, at this price point, the PM2 is my GRAIL. A marvel of engineering that strikes a near-perfect balance of form and function. I don't want another knife. I want a PM2. And I want the warranty that backs it up to be as good as, if not better than the knife itself.

I don't think that's asking too much.

 

[Luis G.]

Me neither!!! In fact, Spyderco, IMHO is creating the highest value knives at their price point of any manufacturer in the industry. Try to get a better comparable knife than the PM2 for the same amount of money and you won't be able to do it. As good as it is, my Griptilian is gathering dust.

Pretty much my sentiments as well. Superb knife, great weight, yet very strong. Albeit I will say my mini-Griptilian is right up there with it as well to be honest only difference is mine is 154CM, while the PM2 is S30v which is a bit better.

THE ONLY thing I can knock on the PM2 is the compression fit lanyard tube, I like to tinker and perfect my knives. Other than that it's excellent.

I will be getting my PM2 from spyderco today or tomorrow. Was sent in for lock up issues.

 

[broonzbane]

Pretty much my sentiments as well. Superb knife, great weight, yet very strong. Albeit I will say my mini-Griptilian is right up there with it as well to be honest only difference is mine is 154CM, while the PM2 is S30v which is a bit better.

THE ONLY thing I can knock on the PM2 is the compression fit lanyard tube, I like to tinker and perfect my knives. Other than that it's excellent.

I will be getting my PM2 from spyderco today or tomorrow. Was sent in for lock up issues.

Thanks for coming around, Luis. I appreciate it. I hope you don't view my prior responses to you as anger directed at you . . . Just impassioned repartee borne out of frustration that I was having such a hard time getting others to understand my perspective.

I'll let you know how this turns out. Keep us posted how your lock-up issue is resolved. I just hope we don't wind up in the same boat when you get your knife back! LOL!

Regards,

broonzbane

 

[FCM415]

To those who say I should have sent the knife back to the retailer, I offer this policy from one of Spyderco's retailers of exclusive sprint runs . . .

"To be fair to all of our customers, we do not hand pick knives. Everything on this website is 100% factory brand new. Please rest assure that all Spyderco knives have been inspected by Spyderco personnel in Golden, Colorado, and have passed Spyderco’s rigorous quality control.


All sales are final. If you feel that there is an issue with your Spyderco knife, please contact Spyderco’s Warranty and Repair Department either by phone at (800) 525-7770, extension 255, or by email at customerservice@spyderco.com."

So, at least in one case, the customer's ONLY. Recourse is Spyderco warranty service.

I know which one that is... Other than for a couple of sprints that are exclusive to them, I shop elsewhere for Spydercos. As a store, you should stand by products that you sell... Actually it is by law. Imagine if you bought something from Sears and they pulled that.

Yeah and it is too late to send it back because I know KC gives you a short amount of days to return/exchange. Give Spyderco a call and speak with Charlynn and tell her your situation. She was able to fix my Caly 3.5 and was very helpful. It is better to handle this over the phone at this point. Tell her you are unhappy with the detent and that you dont want to void the warranty by opening it to see what could be wrong.

Brownshoe a fanboy? After reading the forums, I find that a little ironic!

 

[ToxicBot11]

Your knife did pass QC, two times.

You say "There's positively no way you can make that assessment without handling the knife yourself. None whatsoever" I disagree. I can believe Spyderco, where not once but twice your knife was inspected and found to be correctly made.

Assume much? You have no clue as to what happened when that box was opened at Spyderco. Unless you happened to be standing there when the box was opened? If you were please enlighten us with the details. They may have tested it and said it was within spec, or said box opener could have taken it out and shoved it right back in another box without doing a thing and shipped it.

The problem is with your expectations...you need to get a different knife. Return it and pick a different model/brand, assuming you haven't used it.

No. The problem is your lack of expectations.

 

[broonzbane]

A couple of questions have come to mind since I first posted this thread and have read everyone's replies.

First, several contributors to this thread have assertively declared that my knife has passed Spyderco's QC tolerances for detent strength. Can anyone speak from a position of knowledge or experience as to what those tolerances are and how they are measured? If the specs exist, then Spyderco must be hooking these blades up to an apparatus that measures the force required to break detent, right? Are they doing this, or are the specs completely subjective and guesstimated by QC inspectors? Do they test all knives or just select samples from a production run?

The other question I have pertains to what constitutes knife disassembly. I assume the pivot screw has Loctite applied when assembled. Does Spyderco consider screws that have had the Loctite seal broken to be a sign of disassembly?

Just curious.

 

[broonzbane]

Great post Broonzbane. FWIW I am totally in your corner and I don't even own a Spyderco. You're not the first to say this and you won't be the last. I guess I am spoiled with companies like Crusader Forge/Pohl Force/DPx and a few other hard use/overbuilt type knives. I really believe that the type of pieces that a company sells and the type of advertising they do.....goes along with the type of CS you get.

I know there may be exceptions to that rule ie; Kershaw/Gerber but the hard use ie;overbuilt knife companies....I just can't picture RYP or anyone at DPx saying that to one of their customers. The companies I mentioned above would not want one of their customers walking away feeling like "they didn't count." That is what I have experienced at least. I think you know Broonzbane what to do, don't you? How many times do you have to be made to feel like you're feeling now? I would hope that the answer is......NOT AGAIN! Good luck guy.

Thanks, Pockets! Seems like cases like mine are not the exception at all. I do love these blades. I don't want to be the bad guy here. I just want a working PM2 and to help spyderco continue to exceed customer expectations.

 

[Luis G.]

Thanks for coming around, Luis. I appreciate it. I hope you don't view my prior responses to you as anger directed at you . . . Just impassioned repartee borne out of frustration that I was having such a hard time getting others to understand my perspective.

I'll let you know how this turns out. Keep us posted how your lock-up issue is resolved. I just hope we don't wind up in the same boat when you get your knife back! LOL!

Regards,

broonzbane

Got it back today lock up is fixed. No parts replaced that I can tell. I had to disassemble it and reassemble it to remove the oil crap they use, and to fix the centering (again, every spyderco I had has needed to be disassembled).
Not sure what they did but it's definitely fixed. Back to 30% lockup vs 50%.
Best guess is they used a hair bit thicker stop pin, that's normally how you can cure a fast accelerating lock up. I think something like a couple one thousandths of an inch is enough to affect lock up.

 

[KNaB]

Great post Broonzbane. FWIW I am totally in your corner and I don't even own a Spyderco. You're not the first to say this and you won't be the last. I guess I am spoiled with companies like Crusader Forge/Pohl Force/DPx and a few other hard use/overbuilt type knives. I really believe that the type of pieces that a company sells and the type of advertising they do.....goes along with the type of CS you get.

I know there may be exceptions to that rule ie; Kershaw/Gerber but the hard use ie;overbuilt knife companies....I just can't picture RYP or anyone at DPx saying that to one of their customers. The companies I mentioned above would not want one of their customers walking away feeling like "they didn't count." That is what I have experienced at least. I think you know Broonzbane what to do, don't you? How many times do you have to be made to feel like you're feeling now? I would hope that the answer is......NOT AGAIN! Good luck guy.

You're comparing Crusader forge blades to a $110 dollar spyderco? As far as the DPx comment is concerned; Why doesn't RYP have a sub-forum anymore?

 

[tazkristi]

broonzbane,
Hello and I'm sorry for your disappointment and frustration. Today is the first I'm reading this thread. Sal and I both have what he calls a "day job" and we both travel quite frequently. Not an excuse, just explaining our lack of participation in this thread.

I would appreciate it if you would send your Para2 back in, but to my attention (Kristi Hunter) and I can have it re-evaluated by the appropriate management team. Please also include the form letter that you received (if possible) so that can be addressed. You can either send it in and I'll arrange reimbursement for the freight cost or I can issue a call tag and have it picked up. If you'd like me to send a call tag please send me an e-mail with your address (khunter @ spyderco.com - without the spaces of course) and I'll take care of it. Please be aware that I'm heading out of the office in a few days for some military conferences. I'll be out for the next two weeks, so give me some time once you send it. Finally, please let me know when you send it so I can arrange for someone to get it to my office while I'm out.

Again, I apologize for your disappointment and frustration. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kristi

 

[whp]

broonzbane,
Hello and I'm sorry for your disappointment and frustration. Today is the first I'm reading this thread. Sal and I both have what he calls a "day job" and we both travel quite frequently. Not an excuse, just explaining our lack of participation in this thread.

I would appreciate it if you would send your Para2 back in, but to my attention (Kristi Hunter) and I can have it re-evaluated by the appropriate management team. Please also include the form letter that you received (if possible) so that can be addressed. You can either send it in and I'll arrange reimbursement for the freight cost or I can issue a call tag and have it picked up. If you'd like me to send a call tag please send me an e-mail with your address (khunter @ spyderco.com - without the spaces of course) and I'll take care of it. Please be aware that I'm heading out of the office in a few days for some military conferences. I'll be out for the next two weeks, so give me some time once you send it. Finally, please let me know when you send it so I can arrange for someone to get it to my office while I'm out.

Again, I apologize for your disappointment and frustration. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kristi

Way to go.

 

[cncpro11]

Good for Spyderco.
Way to go Kristi.

 

[Officer's Match]

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. :thumbup:

 

[EZ Bake]

As for EZ Bake asking when a knife has been voided in the history of Spyderco. Surely you have heard that disassembly voids the warranty? How do you think they know a knife has been disassembled? They look for signs like scratched and buggered up screw heads. There have been threads here where people have told how their knife was voided for being taken apart when the knife was sent in fully assembled and were told the knife had been taken apart because the screws are messed up. For all the kool aid drinkers try doing a search on all the problems people have had with warranty. I love Spyderco knives. Doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye towards all the problems people have had with the warranty dept, including myself.

I've never seen this any stories of Spyderco refusing to service a knife via warranty due solely to marks on screws (which if you'll look back to what I posted - I never said to disassemble the knife, only to loosen). This was your response:

Unless you make marks on the screws and Spyderco assumes it was taken apart. Void! Next!

I just did a search on "Spyderco" "Warranty" "Void" and it turned up not a single story of someone's warranty being voided due to marks found on screws. I did however find a ton of stories where Spyderco went above and beyond by supplying pins/screws on knives that absolutely had to have been taken apart (which is listed as voiding your warranty).

I'm not saying Spyderco is perfect, but there's no need to fabricate stuff based on what might happen. I've seen uneven grinds, and heard at least a story or two where Spyderco's customer service was less than stellar, but what speaks much louder than some of the what-ifs, name-calling, and useless cut-downs in this thread (not saying this specifically to FlaMtnBkr), are facts.

This is getting to the point of Ad Hominim and Strawman arguments to prove that Spyderco either sucks or can cure cancer. It would be awesome if people could just stick with facts and the truth without adding all of the extra garbage.

 

[FlipFlick]

Wow! That was an awesome response. Thanks for backing up your products Spyderco!

 

[EZ Bake]

And now I feel silly because I didn't see tazkristi's post.

That sounds a lot like good customer service to me. Now I'm off to buy another Spyderco to support the cause

 

[Luis G.]

I just did a search on "Spyderco" "Warranty" "Void" and it turned up not a single story of someone's warranty being voided due to marks found on screws. I did however find a ton of stories where Spyderco went above and beyond by supplying pins/screws on knives that absolutely had to have been taken apart (which is listed as voiding your warranty).

My Manix 2 broke yesterday, I've put that knife through some serious batteries of tests. It survived and laughed at me. Fast forward to a little over two weeks later I dropped it while trying to pull it out of my pocket. The cage broke, and the spring flew across the room which took me an hour to find. Had to take it apart since the cage broke in half, and would not close.
It's obviously not covered under warranty at all since it fell and broke (plus I've disassembled it) but man I sure hope Spyderco will repair it for a fee, I am going to bummed out and out $90~ if it can't be done.

Just glad I just got back my PM2, otherwise I'd be out of spyderco's to carry!

 

[DB731]

My Manix 2 broke yesterday... I dropped it while trying to pull it out of my pocket. The cage broke, and the spring flew across the room which took me an hour to find.!

That's all it took??

 

[Luis G.]

That's all it took??

Yup simple, maybe 3 foot drop unto a mechanic's concrete floor. As I said I am perplexed. It's the same Manix 2 I put through my hard use/abuse testing and came back a champion.

Waiting for Spyderco to respond after I gave them disclosure. I won't accept a free service because this is obviously my mistake, I just hope they will be willing to offer a repair for a fee.
Honestly I've always seen the co polymer cage to be a weak point of the knife. After doing hard testing about 2-3 weeks ago I thought my suspicions were misplaced. Even if it gets repaired or if I have to replace it (another $90+) I won't do so until I considering the cost of replacing the cage with a metal one (steel or titanium).
If I can't get it done for a reasonable cost, I am probably going to have to stick with an beefy Axis lock based knife.

 

[DB731]

Yup simple, maybe 3 foot drop unto a mechanic's concrete floor. As I said I am perplexed. It's the same Manix 2 I put through my hard use/abuse testing and came back a champion.

Waiting for Spyderco to respond after I gave them disclosure. I won't accept a free service because this is obviously my mistake, I just hope they will be willing to offer a repair for a fee.
Honestly I've always seen the co polymer cage to be a weak point of the knife. After doing hard testing about 2-3 weeks ago I thought my suspicions were misplaced. Even if it gets repaired or if I have to replace it (another $90+) I won't do so until I considering the cost of replacing the cage with a metal one (steel or titanium).
If I can't get it done for a reasonable cost, I am probably going to have to stick with an beefy Axis lock based knife.

what do you mean by cage? do other Spydercos have this weakness?