Well designed custom chef knives?

[WyoNonSmith]

I wanted a high carbon chef knife for years.
I had to beg, plead, wheedle, and blackmail Jim Rodebaugh, MS, to forge me a high carbon blade in a french curve, not to mention the waiting list. Getting him to make it to my specs was fun, too. He has made one other to my pattern for someone else.

The result, out of L6 and desert ironwood, is spectactular and I use it every day!!! That's it in my signature avatar. I am a former professional chef and know what I want in a knife for the task. I can fine dice on the tip, and break chix bones with the back. I wanted it to be built sturdy, but not clunky. It is simply the finest chef knife I have held in my hand.

Far too many people make their chef knives clunky and heavy with a screwed up taper. If you really don't know what you are doing, I say don't make these types of knives...it really takes some delicasy to do it right and the heat treating is apparently tricky. Most of the ones that I see are stock removal knives, too. My preference runs to a forged blade, and from what I understand it is pretty difficult to forge a chefs knife completely. Many of the makers I have talked to shy away from chefs knives, because they are difficult to do right.

 

[WyoNonSmith]

My wife knows that if any of my knives end up in the dishwasher, I'm filing for divorce. If she left them in the sink overnight, I would file for custody of her dogs... irish wolfhounds that she shows and loves more than me.

 

[B . Buxton]

I wanted a high carbon chef knife for years.
I had to beg, plead, wheedle, and blackmail Jim Rodebaugh, MS, to forge me a high carbon blade in a french curve, not to mention the waiting list. Getting him to make it to my specs was fun, too. He has made one other to my pattern for someone else.

The result, out of L6 and desert ironwood, is spectactular and I use it every day!!! That's it in my signature avatar. I am a former professional chef and know what I want in a knife for the task. I can fine dice on the tip, and break chix bones with the back. I wanted it to be built sturdy, but not clunky. It is simply the finest chef knife I have held in my hand.

Far too many people make their chef knives clunky and heavy with a screwed up taper. If you really don't know what you are doing, I say don't make these types of knives...it really takes some delicasy to do it right and the heat treating is apparently tricky. Most of the ones that I see are stock removal knives, too. My preference runs to a forged blade, and from what I understand it is pretty difficult to forge a chefs knife completely. Many of the makers I have talked to shy away from chefs knives, because they are difficult to do right.

Exactly what I was saying these 2 chefs that used my high carbon butcher knife said, these guys make a living in the kitchen, both are graduates from very highly known chef schools and neither would use anything to compromise the taste of what they serve, their business totally depends on quality.

Have a nice day,

Bill

 

[Lycosa]

The blade shape on the Wilkin's chef knife is perfect! Half French, half Japanese. Thanks!

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

Thanks for the mention guys!

I've sold a good many kitchen knives and never had a customer who didn't love the knife – and use it! This includes some professional cooks and a lot of serious hobby cooks. Tactical Knives magazine has an article about my kitchen knives in the current issue.

The Becut stainless I use is a very nice steel and holds an edge for quite a while. I also use the steel in the military utility knife I did with Andrew Jordan and buyers of those knives have loved the steel too.

I have a new kitchen knife in the works with a 100mm blade. Pics of the plastic prototype can be seen in the "news" section of my website. Should have some ready in early Fall.

 

[Joss]

The blade shape on the Wilkin's chef knife is perfect! Half French, half Japanese. Thanks!

Can you help me understand the difference between the French vs other blade shape? I know that Jpz knives are typically chisel grind, but I find it difficult otherwise to compare what I see as the Jpz approach (very specialized knives, cooking little meat), vs. the more polyvalent profile of a typical Western knife (where the cooking has a good deal of meat and harder things).

 

[Joss]

Far too many people make their chef knives clunky and heavy with a screwed up taper. If you really don't know what you are doing, I say don't make these types of knives...it really takes some delicasy to do it right and the heat treating is apparently tricky. Most of the ones that I see are stock removal knives, too. My preference runs to a forged blade, and from what I understand it is pretty difficult to forge a chefs knife completely. Many of the makers I have talked to shy away from chefs knives, because they are difficult to do right.

On such a thin cross section, there's no room for mistake. Any ding or decarb is going to send your blade on the scrap pile. Also, it must be really easy to overheat the blade during HT & / or end up with a bent blade.

 

[Joss]

I hand rub the 2 carbon forged(hunter and fighter) that I use...and use them infrequently....doing it to the 12 kitchen knives that I regularly use to keep them patina free would become a PITA.

The interesting point here is the mention of 12 knives. As an amateur cook I really use all the time my 8" chef, a santoku for veggies, and a number of small, super thin Victorinox 3" or 4" paring knives (those go in the DW). I also use the bread knife a lot, but it rarely needs washing. On the other hand I have a carving set, a 10" chef, a "tomato knife" (serrated), and a larger paring knife, and I never use them.

If I were to rebuild my knife assortment, I would have 1 or 2 chef knives, around 8" and 6" bladed, as generalists, a santoku (or equivalent thinner edge) for soft stuff (i.e., veggies), and 4 thin edge small paring knives (I'm actually very happy with the Victorinox). I would get rid of all the specialized knifeware (except the bread knife).

 

[ryan9977]

Can you help me understand the difference between the French vs other blade shape? I know that Jpz knives are typically chisel grind, but I find it difficult otherwise to compare what I see as the Jpz approach (very specialized knives, cooking little meat), vs. the more polyvalent profile of a typical Western knife (where the cooking has a good deal of meat and harder things).

joss......there are two types of japanese knives.....double bevel and single bevel.....double bevel is a regular knife you are used to sharpened in the conventional manner......single bevelled is a whole nother story.....this would be like a sushi knife(yanagi).....they are not chisel ground.....there is a big bevel on one side and the back is actually hollow.....there is a ridge that is sharpened around the perimiter of the back(urasaki i think it's called)......they are much harder to sharpen.....anyone who tells you they ar easy to sharpen does not know the proper way to sharpen them or is not explaining all of the problems that could occur.....i would suggest double bevelled knives......typically they are thinner....much harder(rc-62 and up) and lighter than western knives.....most have traditional ho wood handles ......they could be replaced for a fancier handle though easily.....let me know if u have any other questions.....so what is your budget?.....ryan

 

[Lycosa]

Joss---Here's what I look for in a chef knife. I was a sous chef for 10 years, if that means anything.
A wide blade, over two inches. This will keep your fingers off the cutting board. No Bolster! Gets in the way of sharpening.
A nice curve in the belly. This gives a nice rocking motion when cutting in that manner.
A tapered point. You want that point for precision work.
A combination of the Santoku and the Traditional Chef/French knife, just make sense, to me and Really works! Thanks.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Joss, here are the two knives I mentioned earlier. Shot this morning. 6.5" and 8" both very thin and ground on both sides. I don't care for the chisel grind.

Iron clad, with very hard, high carbon core. As far as taking care of HC steel knives, I just rinse and dry after use. No soap, no oil and no rust. The shorter knife is 4 years old and I've had the 8" for a little over a year. They do see alot of use, cutting meat, bread and vegtables.

I need to make a couple (ugly) little parring knives. I made my wife one a while back and she want use it, has Koa handle and a killer hamon, she says it too pretty and put it in her 401K

 

[ryan9977]

joss....the website for the knives in don's pic is below.....takeda blacksmith

http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html

 

[Fliprfly]

Here's an old one made by George Herron. There were only a couple of these ever made and I know one is still in his family. He called it the "Cake" knife because it is the knife used to cut the cakes at his daughter's weddings.

Jay

 

[joshsmith]

Bob Kramer without a doubt.

 

[SShepherd]

Actually, even on the non"0" ground or double ground japanese knives they are still right or left hand specific depending on the grind. 60/40, 70/30 etc.
Also, with japanese knives you're going to want to have either natural or synthetic sharpeing stones. I hear the DMT or ceramic are exceptional. You do not want to use a steel on japanese kitchen knives.
Here's a great site, with alot of info:
http://www.korin.com/

Sean

 

[thombrogan]

Takeda and Moritaka are my two favorite shops for chef knives so far. The knives are handmande and they both handle custom orders. They also both do more double-bevelled knives than single-bevelled knives. I like super-wide blades like Lycosa likes. Also like them waifer-thin. Here's my Takeda:

Here's my Moritaka:

The Takeda chef knife (gyuto) is 56mm wide at heel and its edge 255mm long; the Moritaka is 60mm wide at heel and its edge is 260mm long.

The Moritaka is new as of this week, so I'm still using the Takeda for everything (I switch to other knives and then always go back to it). Holds very good edge, but when it doesn't feel as sharp anymore, a few passes with a flat ceramic (I use the fine side of a Spyderco Doublestuff or the flat side of a 204UF sharpmaker hone) and it's back to "dice seven onions with no tearing" sharp.

 

[deker]

As somebody who lives near Butch Harner and gets to see most of his kitchen knives before they leave his shop, I'd have to say that you should chat with him. I know he's working on some HC stuff now and if he doesn't have the steel at his place yet I'm pretty sure I have a few hundred pounds of it at my place that can be pounded into submission

I'm actually waiting on a custom set from Butch for my own kitchen. I'm going CPM154 though. I know they won't go in the dishwasher, but I'm a little more particular about my knives than some other folks in my house...

-d

 

[WyoNonSmith]

That Herron knifes looks nice and I would guess that it works nice too.

I must say, I have never liked the japanese chef knives. It's a personal preference. They seem too light and I don't like not having enough curve. They always struck me as having too light an edge for long term heavy work.

High carbon maintanence is a bit more work, but worth it. I keep mine clean and give it a light coat of oil now and again. I steel it every time before I use itI don't mind a bit of patina, I think it gives an old school feel and mine is not for putting in a showcase.

As far as what you need in your kitchen:
a chefs knife---length at least 8" but more is better, it should fit your hand well. I like them as heavy as you hand can handle and still do delicate stuff. a french curve seems to flow better for me, particularly for extended batchs and variety. The width should be enough to keep your fingers away from the board. It's nice to have 2, 10'' & 14" for different jobs. You... I.... want a long even taper back to front. As far as where to spend your money and time in selection, this is the one that you want to invest in.

Paring knife: one good heavy one, standard paring knife. One cheap, easily replaced rather than resharpened (victronox works good for this)---flexible is good. As an extra, if wanted, a good solid sheeps foot paring knife comes in handy---I use mine all the time. If you are fancy and do such things as tournet (sp?)and turning vegetables, get one of those as your last piece.

Serrated "bread" knife-- get quality, and an offset handle will make your life easier.

boning knife --- ridgid with a slightly flexible tip. Keep this one ultra-sharp and hide it--- inevitably, THIS will be the knife everyone (non-cooking types) will grab first to do all tasks, effectively dulling and screwing up the parts you really need this knife for.

Thats all you NEED, or will use the most.

Nice to have:
As mentioned above, assorted paring knives

I use a japanese/chinese cleaver quite a bit. It is a tricky knife to learn how to use, but well worth it and is surprisingly good for detal work. I used to cut brunoise (1/8" x 1/8" x 1/8") with mine. Don't buy a cheap one!! It will only piss you off.

a small chef knife: 6", midgrade. There will be times when this is useful.

Scimitar--if you cul large pieces of meat frequently, this will be godsend. My old prep guy did amazing things with his.

Clever-- old school and heavy. great for splitting chickens and breaking carcasses.

cheap-assed thin cafeteria spoon (ususally stolen) -- sharpen the tip slighly, but retain the curve. Great for peeling kiwis and getting vegetables out of skins or making boats.

Microplane grater---you will use this more than you think.

 

[Joss]

I never really got the hang of any chef's knife bigger than 8", but that's probably my deficiency.


One knife which I've always wondered about are Trace Rinaldi's TKC's. They have a great profile, I just don't know how they would do wrt actual cooking.


Finally, I seem to recall one of our members here who made a set with orange G10 (or similar) for Mario Batali. Does that ring anyone else's bell?

 

[thombrogan]

Orange knives for Chef B. was Spencer/SAR.

Everyone can learn how to comfortably use 10" long chef knives. They make many steps faster.