Well...It's Friday...

First off - thank you for buying and supporting Fiddleback Forge knives. As Andy has said many times, both on here and to me personally, it really is an amazing thing to do this for a living. Without all of you we wouldn't be here.

Some very good points have been brought up in regards to withdrawing on knives. I really liked Bush Hacker's idea of posting a Closed sales thread and opening it 10 minutes later. We'll give that a shot this coming Friday. While it can be confusing when there are a lot of withdrawals on a knife, I understand how that happens from time to time. When it is a genuine discovery that the knife you claimed is a thickness you'd rather not have it makes sense. On the other hand if it turns into Strategy then we're heading down a crappy road.

Looking back in Fotki, the pinstripes on most knives are clearly evident, either in the group shot or the individual pics. Vance and I talked about getting tang shots in there as well. The trouble starts here because there is an overall character maximum for any given post on Bladeforums. Very often I am coming right up to that limit w/ the sales thread, which means there isn't room for more pics.

As I read it, I don't believe Phil was commenting on anyone in particular, just the overall trend. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here, Phil.)

Thank you all,
Ken
 
I really liked Bush Hacker's idea of posting a Closed sales thread and opening it 10 minutes later. We'll give that a shot this coming Friday
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I think this is a great idea. This should completely eliminate any confusion or misconceptions on model, thickness, tang or handle type. It should also eliminate unnecessary or duplicate calls or PMs to the shop and pave the way for a smoother week and hassle free Friday sales thread.
 
mgray34 said:
I think this is a great idea. This should completely eliminate any confusion or misconceptions on model, thickness, tang or handle type. It should also eliminate unnecessary or duplicate calls or PMs to the shop and pave the way for a smoother week and hassle free Friday sales thread.
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Seems like a very elegant solution and even helps out the users on the mobile devices.
 
My opinion, if you held everyone to rules or even the spirit of the rules of 'copy/paste the description' then there would be a lot less wishy washy behavior. IMO, that's the root of the problem. At a minimum require the item 'number' - so it's assumed they read the knife's description and the excuse of I'm on a cell phone is moot.

Again .. my personal opinion.
 
Call me old fashioned but I like the idea of the available knives being a mystery until the thread is posted, harder to claim multiple knives and more chance of reading the details. Think I'm probably the only one...and what Bud said...
 
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Not the only one +1 here!
bear71 said:
Call me old fashioned but I like the idea of the available knives being a mystery until the thread is posted, harder to claim multiple knives and more chance of reading the details. Think I'm probably the only one...and what Bud said...
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Comprehensivist said:
Swonut,

You are not imaging this. You powers of perception are just fine.

Since the beginning of 2015, it has become more common than not that at least one (and frequently more) people to post "I'll take it" replies only to back out later when the frenzy dies down and it is time to pay up. I am not even going to sugar coat how disgusted I feel when I read a casual reply from a "Buyer" on Page 3, 4, or 5 that says, "Hi Ken, I am going to back out on buying the knife or knives I committed to buy because (insert lame excuse de jour here____________________.")

To me it comes down to one of two things with these people. Either they are too lazy to do the research ahead of time by sending a short PM to Ken or Vance to verify specific details of a knife they are interested in or they are being selfish pigs by claiming two or three knives when they know in advance they only intend to buy one. Either way, it is disrespectful to the other sharks and it is especially disrespectful of the fine folks at Fiddleback Forge who depend on real sales to meet their payroll and expenses. Ken & Andy are too polite too alienate potential customers by saying how they really feel about this, but I can assure that they would much rather reply ahead of time to a quick PM with a question about steel thickness, tang type, liner color, etc., than have to do much more work later to unravel a "sale" and have to look for another real buyer when many of them have already logged off because the one knife they wanted had "sold." Backing out on "I'll take it" commitments as a matter of course is not ethical behavior. If you doubt this, try posting a bunch of "I'll take it" replies to sales threads in the regular Exchange here and see what happens when you back out on them.

I realize that having the integrity to let your "Yes" be "Yes" and your "No" be "No" may be an ancient principle, but it is one that I firmly believe in and personally ascribe to. I have never posted an "I'll take it" reply on a FF and not followed through with the purchase and I commit that I never will in the future. I encourage all of you to consider committing to this standard also as a sign of respect to Fiddleback Forge and your fellow friends and sharks on this forum.

Phil
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Great post Phil. We all need to be accountable for our words and actions. It used to be that a man's word meant and stood for something...

bonafide said:
My opinion, if you held everyone to rules or even the spirit of the rules of 'copy/paste the description' then there would be a lot less wishy washy behavior. IMO, that's the root of the problem. At a minimum require the item 'number' - so it's assumed they read the knife's description and the excuse of I'm on a cell phone is moot.

Again .. my personal opinion.
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Strongly agree with you on this Bud. I have always felt this should have been in place. But just my opinion.

bear71 said:
Call me old fashioned but I like the idea of the available knives being a mystery until the thread is posted, harder to claim multiple knives and more chance of reading the details. Think I'm probably the only one...and what Bud said...
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This isn't such a bad idea either Bear. But I do understand Andy wanting to "showcase" his knives before the thread.
 
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"Please quote the whole description in your post when you shark a knife. Failing to do so won’t mean your call doesn’t count, but it really helps."

If this were football: "Please catch the ball. If you get a just a few fingers on it, it will still be ruled a catch. But holding onto it really helps the guys in the replay booth when they have to sort out a questionable call."
 
If a knife will sell it generally has seconds on it. Even once the knife is in hand Andy's generous warranty still enables returns:

When you get the knife it should make you happy. If it doesn't, return it in unused condition within the first month you own it. We'll refund your purchase price, plus shipping (domestic) back home to us when we receive the knife in unused condition.
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However, anything that streamlines the process for the crew is a positive thing. Plus this should make it easier for new folks to get what they want.
 
I fully agree with Bud and have said as much before, but I only do full descriptions if if I'm iffy on whether I want a knife and want to leave it to chance.

I believe the full sale post preview will solve this problem and probably several others, plus I think it would make it much easier for new buyers on the first purchase. Some other knife makers do it this way and its seems to go well, it's been mentioned here before by others. But I think you guys are doing awesome, you'll never please everyone at the same time :)
 
"Some very good points have been brought up in regards to withdrawing on knives. I really liked Bush Hacker's idea of posting a Closed sales thread and opening it 10 minutes later. We'll give that a shot this coming Friday."

This seems like a good idea Ken. The Fotki pics are nice, but I still have questions regarding steel, thickness, TT, etc. This would save a lot of time and effort on both ends.
 
Being new and not knowing all the knife names and styles - I love the idea of the 10 minute preview thread. It would be really well received!!!
Thanks
 
I ride with Andy and Ken whatever they decide. I was good in the days when the Fotki preview was not exploited and the posting time and knives were a complete mystery. I was good with the Fotki preview and the unlimited feeding frenzy. I was good with the implementation of purchasing limits. I'm good with a 10 minute preview thread. I ride with Andy and Ken whatever they decide.
 
I'm relatively new here, but think the "pre-sale" thread is a good solution. Also, I think that with the "pre-sale" in place there should be NO REASON for backing out or not posting a full description when you want to buy. This is just my opinion and I am cool with whatever Andy and Ken decide.
 
Bamboo said:
First off - thank you for buying and supporting Fiddleback Forge knives. As Andy has said many times, both on here and to me personally, it really is an amazing thing to do this for a living. Without all of you we wouldn't be here.

Some very good points have been brought up in regards to withdrawing on knives. I really liked Bush Hacker's idea of posting a Closed sales thread and opening it 10 minutes later. We'll give that a shot this coming Friday. While it can be confusing when there are a lot of withdrawals on a knife, I understand how that happens from time to time. When it is a genuine discovery that the knife you claimed is a thickness you'd rather not have it makes sense. On the other hand if it turns into Strategy then we're heading down a crappy road.

Looking back in Fotki, the pinstripes on most knives are clearly evident, either in the group shot or the individual pics. Vance and I talked about getting tang shots in there as well. The trouble starts here because there is an overall character maximum for any given post on Bladeforums. Very often I am coming right up to that limit w/ the sales thread, which means there isn't room for more pics.

As I read it, I don't believe Phil was commenting on anyone in particular, just the overall trend. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here, Phil.)

Thank you all,
Ken
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Ken,

Thanks for your reply. Your interpretation of what I said is correct. I was responding to what I see as a negative trend that has taken root as part of a recent strategy being employed strictly for personal advantage when it is used over and over. The repeated use of this strategy is what I was addressing when I said, “Backing out on "I'll take it" commitments as a matter of course is not ethical behavior.” My message was not directed at anyone in particular and certainly not meant to offend individual customers who call for a rare Mulligan or do-over.

I try to choose my words very carefully when I post things here, especially on controversial topics like this. In hindsight, I wish that I had used the word “discouraged” or “disappointed” instead of “disgusted” in the first paragraph of my post, because that is closer to how I feel. I have been discouraged to participate much on Fiddleback Fridays of late because I see this manipulative trend taking hold. I also don’t like the message that it sends to new sharks that says it is OK to cast a wide net early and throw back what you don’t want later.

I appreciate your willingness to try Bush Hacker’s idea to see if that helps reverse the trend.


CAD said:
Wow...I back out one time in the history of Fiddleback Friday (this past friday) and you're disgusted with me. You sir do not have the right to call me...lazy, a selfish pig, disrespectful, question my ethical behavior and integrity.

Chris
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Chris,

I apologize for offending you with my post. I was trying to address the negative strategy trend I see rather than make it directed to specific individuals. I understand why you took it as a personal attack, but that was certainly not my intent. You are correct that I do not have the right to judge you as a person and I am sorry that it came across to you that I was doing so. Having an occasional change of heart on something is no foul in my book. I have been given more grace than I deserve for worse things than changing my mind, so I need to extend the same grace to others. Please accept my humble apology for hurting your feelings.


Vayu said:
If a knife will sell it generally has seconds on it. Even once the knife is in hand Andy's generous warranty still enables returns:

"When you get the knife it should make you happy. If it doesn't, return it in unused condition within the first month you own it. We'll refund your purchase price, plus shipping (domestic) back home to us when we receive the knife in unused condition. "

However, anything that streamlines the process for the crew is a positive thing. Plus this should make it easier for new folks to get what they want.
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Vayu,

Thanks for posting the Fiddleback return policy for those new folks who may not be aware of it.

With that said, let’s not deceive ourselves into thinking that we are doing the Fiddleback crew a favor by “returning” the knife before it even leaves the shop. That is not the intent of the policy. I say this because the policy wording is very specific by stating, “When you get the knife, it should make you happy.” So actually receiving the knife is an implied part of the policy. Things like handle thickness, balance, or how it fits your hand are unknown factors that impact your satisfaction with the knife are valid reasons to return it because you cannot determine those things in advance from the FF pictures and description.

Ken or Andy, please feel free to correct me if my interpretation of the return policy is wrong.

Thanks,

Phil
 
I've never backed out, but it also means I've missed some I would have really liked and certainly doesn't mean I'm better than anyone here. Just that we are all different

To look at a positive light of why someone might post and then back out:

1. Sharks strike fast. Perhaps they post to take 3 knives, hoping they are first on ONE of them. They get them all, so they keep their best grab.

2. FOTKI doesn't tell you steel or blade thickness. They post the instant they can and then see it's not a steel or thickness they want. Posting questions to the forum isn't ideal either, we naturally want what others have, why raise awareness to something you might want?

2a. For me, that's why I never ask a question. I quietly hope nobody is paying attention and that it will come across with a steel and thickness I want.

Buying blind is pretty scary for most folks and FF allowing a grace return is very nice. Just assume we are all good people here. One way to reduce the number of withdrawals might be to use a little dry erase board on the images with a quick blurb on steel and thickness...the name would be a nice touch for new people if you chose.

Just my two cents, but not everyone likes to gamble with $300-$1200 dollars depending on the catch. That's a lot to risk to end up with a knife you don't like. How many people like to buy from "All sales are final" events if you can't even touch the item or know its details?

There are good people here on all counts and in today's world, we can't always win.

Thanks for listening and we will see you on Friday. :)
 
Kirkwood said:
I ride with Andy and Ken whatever they decide. I was good in the days when the Fotki preview was not exploited and the posting time and knives were a complete mystery. I was good with the Fotki preview and the unlimited feeding frenzy. I was good with the implementation of purchasing limits. I'm good with a 10 minute preview thread. I ride with Andy and Ken whatever they decide.
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Well said. I feel the same way and I also love the crew's willingness to work with us here on the forum when recommendations are given to prevent further issues. Class acts all around IMO
 
What I meant by streamlining is Ken doesn't have to read the thread as much for seconds and thirds :D

Eye strain and saws :eek:
 
I like Fiddleback Friday just the way it is. I'm not the fastest person by no means but I usually get a knife I like. I would like to thank the Fiddleback Crew for their wonderful work. Don't change a thing!!
 
Ken and I talked to Andy and it seems we might give the
idea regarding posting the thread and locking it to allow for a preview before we go live with it a try
 
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