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He found me... I just now decided to answer the door.
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Went to church yesterday
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Hearing a statement like that means you truly understand it. People often go to "seek" God, but those who are born again, sinners saved by grace know that HE finds you. It is a truly wonderful thing to know that no matter how great our sin is, His grace is greater and he forgives us. I'm blessed you've come to realize that and I wish you well in your walk with the Lord! :thumbup:
M16a
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CM you did not do wrong making this choice. some will belittle for your it. just pray for them.
they need it more than you
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.....back it up a bit. Those who do not share your beliefs, such as myself, do not need anyone praying for us. We're doing quite well on our own.
Feel free to praise him for his acceptance but do not belittle those who choose not to believe.
Gollnick
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q.e.d.
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How is a Christian praying for you belittling? That sounds quite ridiculous. He's not forcing you to join us in a house of worship so calm down...
unwisefool
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I think he meant more to pray for the people who WOULD belittle you for such a decision.
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Kaizen1
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I question the whole assertion that we have a "choice" in the matter at all. I'm an Atheist because none of the arguments for god that I've heard are convincing to me. I couldn't convince myself otherwise if I wanted to, in the same way that I couldn't choose to sincerely believe that an invisible and otherwise undetectable mini unicorn followed me around everywhere I went. I'd like to ask those that say that I have choice in whether I believe in god or not if they have a choice to believe that they didn't just read this sentence.
I do find people praying for me on the condescending side, but I suppose they're just doing what they honestly believe is the best thing for me.
Sorry to get so far off topic CM.
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This is exactly it in most cases. I do it sometimes honestly because I want to help with some situation that I have control over (illness, etc) so I do what I believe. I ask God to heal someone or whatever the case may be. When it comes to those who don't belive or who ridicule me for my beliefs, I pray for them as well. I pray that they find some meaning in their life so that they no longer find joy in attempting to belittle someone else. I also pray for myself. For patience and understanding when confronted with those who do not see eye to eye with me. My first reaction is usually anger or sarcasm and I have to make a conscious effort to avoid that. I pray that I will one day be able to avoid that intial impulse altogether. There is no air of condescension as Ken C wishes, it is simply doing all that I know I can to help someone out.
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I understand exactly where you're coming from, and doing that quietly, without announcing it is absolutely fine. The problem comes about when people feel the need to announce that they are going to pray for someone because they "need it" or they want them to "see the light" or suchlike. That comes across as superior, condescending and borders on insulting.
People are entitled to believe whatever they damned well please and nobody has the right to tell somebody else what they believe is somehow wrong. ( No, dougo38, I'm not suggesting you personally are doing this, just illustrating a point.)
So, in summary, people have every right to believe anything they want, they do not have the right to tell others what they should, or should not, believe and nobody has any right to belittle anyone for whatever they do, or don't, believe.
Kaizen1
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I can appreciate your sincere interest to help others in the way that you feel is best, but there certainly are people on the theist and atheist side that show contempt for the opposition. I constantly challenge my beliefs in my search for truth and I've found quite a few pastors to be some of the most condescending folks around. I think the ones that I've spoken to have gotten a little too comfortable with being praised by their followers. Add that to their beliefs that they have access to absolute truth and you're asking for one cocky dude.
A great movie that points out the cockiness of some theists but is fair (I believe) in that the "opposition" in the movie are other Christians (everyone in the movie is a self proclaimed Christian), is Jesus Camp.
Kaizen1
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This is a little too pc for me. It's being diplomatic to too far an extreme IMO. For example, I think that as a responsible adult, if I have a chance to convince someone that their belief that it's "okay to hurt people for the fun of it" is certainly wrong, it's not only is perfectly reasonable for me to say so, but it's my obligation. So I personally don't think it's necessary to respect everyone's beliefs. I think some beliefs are just incredibly stupid. What I do respect is that I'm dealing with fellow human beings that have deep emotion invested in those beliefs. And one should be considerate in their approach because of this.
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You are taking the conversation out of the context of the thread. The thread is about religion.
Even so, what people might believe, even if generally accepted is wrong, is not necessarily the same as acting out those beliefs. I'm not suggesting you have to respect anyone's beliefs, I certainly don't, but I don't consider it my business to "correct" others beliefs.
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Excellent choice! When the urge to drink or drug hits you, just remeber that it is JUST a feeling, and FEELings are not FAct. Sit down, Kneel down, stand up if you need to, and pray; That feeling WILL pass. I wrestled with Alcoholism for about 20 years. Ultimatly I landed in Prison for an extended stay, but while incarcerated, I accepted Jesus and prayed for relief from that addiction. I never prayed so much and so hard for one thing in my life and one night while praying, it felt as if I became washed clean, all at once from head to toe. God willing, this November 19th, I'll have been clean and sober for 13 years....NEVER in my life or wildest imaginations could I have believed this possible! But in God ALL things are possible.
In the eyes of God you are worthy of all the best His life has to offer. Believe it! Walk that life more than you talk it. Lead by example as it were. Talk is cheap and actions speak SOOooo much louder.
Kaizen1
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If you think that religion hasn't lead to unnecessary violence, then you're fooling yourself. Note that I'm not specifically talking about anyone in this thread since they haven't given any indication that they would behave in this manner, but I can cite as many examples of religiously motivated atrocities as I need to. 9/11 anyone? You're telling me that if I had a chance to talk a 9/11 highjacker away from his beliefs while they were still benign (at an earlier age), that I have no right to do so? Or that it would be wrong for me to do so? Do you really believe that?
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I am truly sorry that this is the impression that you have had. I have seen it too, being in the church my whole life. However, I can realize that pastors, like anyone else, are human and prone to fail and succumb to anything the average person can. Remember, mainline Christianity does not see their leaders as infallible, but as endeavoring to live a life "above reproach." That is, that they will live their lives as an example, though they will still fail. As I have stated, I am going to school to be a youth pastor. I screw up alot. I did drugs when I was younger and banged every chick I met. I also cuss like a sailor sometimes, though I have slowly been able to tame it somewhat. I think the fact that I realize this tempers me when I speak to those who are not Christian. I also find the remark about basically having some special claim to absolute truth alot when I talk to people outside of the church. You do realize that an atheist is saying the same thing, just on the other side, right? I say that there is a God while the atheist says that there is absolutely no way in hell (funny that most often they refer to something they claim not to believe in) that God exists. Everyone, in some form or another, claims a hold of their own absolute truth. Mine happens to be the saving grace of God that I read in the Bible. Now, maybe my past and my encounters keep me from being more abrasive and allow me to be more understanding of those outside of Christianity. I don't know but I certainly try not to hold someone's beliefs against them. That is, until they judge me or condemn me on the basis of their beliefs.
As far as Jesus Camp, that is a Christian Catch-22. If I say that they are not truly Christian and teach a false doctrine, I am seen as judgemental and show Christians to be childish, bickering with those who have different beliefs. However, if I go against my principles and do not speak out against such groups, I deny my beliefs and appear weak and accepting of cult behavior which I am not.
I would agree with you to some extent here. Personally I don't give a damn if someone agrees with or respects my beliefs. It is not up to you, or anyone else, to judge me just as it is not my place to judge them.
I can disagree quite vehemently with a non-Christian in debate. It is not ever a reflecton of my view toward them as a person.
It is 0430, I have no idea if any of this even makes sense...
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This is an especially frustrating point for a Christian. In the modern era, the Christian church has not endorsed or tolerated violence. Yet we are still compared to radicalized Islam, or even worse, the medieval Christian church that was purely a political, murderous machine at times. Yes, Christians commit crimes. They do not, regardless of how people want to twist fact, do it in the name of God or with the blessing of any church body. If they do that is a pretty clear indication that they are not acting in the name of Christ. Christian principle is relatively non-violent and certainly does not ever endorse murder for one's beliefs.
I absolutely agree that some beliefs are detrimental and should be denounced, but Christianity hardly qualifies. I mean, the Christian Scripture centers around helping the poor, accepting the socially outcast, and living what we would call a "blameless" life. I don't see how anyone can conceiveably take issue with this core of belief. Sure, I understand that Christians themselves fail and can come off and high and mighty and judgemental in their walk through life. This certainly doesn't diminish the fact that many Christians truly live out what they believe.
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