What’s just fine?

This is my take on HT, if I want to make the best knives that I am capable of I should try to eliminate as many variables as possible. I do this by using a heat treat oven(or a forge with a cheap e-bay pyrometer) and dedicated heattreat oil (which wasn't expensive by the way). To use the cook analogy again, would you want to pay good money for a meal that was made by a teenager who just took anthing that he had in the fridge and cooked it up in a big ole pot?? He could say that it is "just fine" because it wont kill you and it may even look ok.....

Why don't we put bacon grease or mineral oil in our expensive car engines...it might be "just fine" :grumpy:
 
rocketmann said:
Why don't we put bacon grease or mineral oil in our expensive car engines...it might be "just fine" :grumpy:
Click to expand...
Not a good analogy. :rolleyes:

This thread is a fail, due to, too many chiefs in the tribe. too much sarcasm, and too much arrogance.

Strahd71, make the best knife you know how. Mineral Oil IS a proper quenching oil from years past. It may not be considered that now, but it's still the main ingrediant in modern quenching oils so hmmmmm that must mean it's the closest one can get to actual quenching oil with out paying out the nose for the title 'Proper Quenching Oil" I certainly understand your economic situation. Shoot for the most part I'm still there! a $100.00 - $120.00 is a days wages for me. and coupled with the fact that I have buyers remorse when I buy a nonessiential item costing $20.00 or more cuase we may need that $$ for an essential later in the fortnight. As for the Brains end of the deal, well your smarter than your giving yourself credit for here. The more you read the more you will comprehend. Use googe to define terms and words by just typing "define: insert word here" or have a thesaurus and a dictionary next to ya for understanding the more scientific terms. Keep at it buddy you'll get it.

Jason
 
thanks jason,

i dont know if this thread is a failure or not. i didnt get the information i wanted which is fine no one owes me anything. but i've learned alot about some people here on the forum. your right there is quite a bit of arrogance, but some people through it all were decent.

so what i've learned is this..... never mind it just isnt worth it

jake
 
Jason - mineral oil may indeed be the proper quenching oil from years past for certain steels, but water has been around and used even longer. Mineral oil is too slow for some steels, plain and simple.

The main ingredient line doesn't work, just because it's the largest base in the oil doesn't mean it's what makes the oil good. Water is the main ingredient in chicken soup, it's also the main ingredient in people. What would happen if we took away the meat?

I can't understand why people will sell knives and yet they are not willing to spend a few extra bucks (remember, mineral oil costs money too) on a proper quench. I think that "just fine" changes significantly when you're trying to make money off of people.

If people are giving good info on quench media and you refuse to take it, how is it that you're going to make the best knife you know how?
 
Water is the main ingredient in chicken soup, it's also the main ingredient in people. What would happen if we took away the meat?


LMAO..classic:thumbup:

I can't understand why people will sell knives and yet they are not willing to spend a few extra bucks (remember, mineral oil costs money too) on a proper quench. I think that "just fine" changes significantly when you're trying to make money off of people.

I couldn't agree more;)
 
Heck, I use gallons of mineral oil but I am cutting rocks so don't let the fact I use it change your mind.... :D

Just humor everyone...
 
AcridSaint said:
J

Water is the main ingredient in chicken soup, it's also the main ingredient in people. What would happen if we took away the meat?
Click to expand...

maybe better to use the fact that most steel is over 80% iron
so its all the same :)
i used 80% cause i work with more then just simple steels
i guess tho im a bit off in my thinking as i had a even heat kiln before i got a grinder bigger then a delta 1x42
its easier to fix problems that could come up when you can nail down just what could have gone wrong
 
AcridSaint said:
Jason - mineral oil may indeed be the proper quenching oil from years past for certain steels, but water has been around and used even longer. Mineral oil is too slow for some steels, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

I didnt mention which steels becuase I thought it would be obvious it would be for slower oil steels.

AcridSaint said:
The main ingredient line doesn't work, just because it's the largest base in the oil doesn't mean it's what makes the oil good. Water is the main ingredient in chicken soup, it's also the main ingredient in people. What would happen if we took away the meat?
Click to expand...

walking skeletons?

AcridSaint said:
I can't understand why people will sell knives and yet they are not willing to spend a few extra bucks (remember, mineral oil costs money too) on a proper quench. I think that "just fine" changes significantly when you're trying to make money off of people.
Click to expand...

I cant speak for Strahd71 but I havent sold any yet, I'm about to, but no money has exchanged hands yet. after I sell a few then I plan on getting good stuff. but for the time being I'm unable to invest in it.

AcridSaint said:
If people are giving good info on quench media and you refuse to take it, how is it that you're going to make the best knife you know how?
Click to expand...

By using the next best quench media I can AFFORD. That makes it the best knife I can possibly make at that time.

I think it may be wise for us to agree to disagree on this point. We all know the wonders and graces of Parks/Heatbath but for some of us they are out of our price range. Houghton too. we'll get there eventually. some folks just have a longer row to hoe.

Jason
 
Hi Jason - sorry I didn't understand that you were excluding some steels. It was already mentioned earlier in the thread that a person could use slower quenching steels with vegetable oil, mineral or whatever was as fast or faster than the minimum reqs for the steel. I don't think most folks argue about what's a good quench media for O1 or 5160, most of the time it's 10xx series steels that are being talked about, especially the loved and hated 1095.

Unless a person is using completely free quench oil, I can't see the math behind not using a proper oil. All of the oils I've seen folks using cost upwards of $10/Ga here and the low end of quench oils start around $15/Ga. I'm not saying you should have to lay out hundreds to make a knife, I just think that folks should strive to use the best media for their steel.

I think we can agree more than disagree, we just probably needed to define the terms a little better.
 
so what happened to the turkey idea????

oh yeah, it was on me huhh



So I hammered out this little blade real quick, 3 1/2 " 1084 FG Drop point, normalized 3 times


turkey-1.jpg


I decided to use a hollow grind


turkey-2.jpg


Edge thickness before quench .045"

turkey-3.jpg



Gonna do a cheater's quench, just get the edge up to heat


turkey-4.jpg



and INTO THE TURKEY WE GO


turkey-5.jpg




I'll clean it up and do some tests later this week
 
i can see it now, usa knifemakers will soon be selling butterball turkeys in there quenchant section....lol

cool stuff
 
I am happy to see this thread still on the front page because not only do I feel bad for interfering with it but I really feel that the original question deserves answers. I shoot my mouth off about why some things may not be good enough, but I never sit back and shut up to hear the case for the other side, i.e. what is “it works just fine?” This is the chance for that since I am committed to non interference to the offering of those answers, especially since I knew there was a reason for my feeling guilty for interfering with Jakes inquiry and then I found it. :o Jake don’t feel bad I asked the exact same question here back on 12-14-2007:

Kevin R. Cashen said:
I have worked with the Parks products and if I had to make your decision, I would probably give the Mc-Master Carr a shot. 5160 is very forgiving in the quench and will allow such experimenting without disaster, and if you don't like it you are only out $12.50 …

…The debate of whether motor oil, lard, wesson, crisco, ATF, gloop, glop, mud or even pee, is just as good has been beaten to death here. I am so tired of making enemies over such an insignificant yet common sense thing, that I would prefer to ask but one thing. The proponents of the alternative always use the same argument, that it "works just fine". To this I would ask the criteria of judgement to be defined. What is "just fine" and how do you determine "just fine"? ….
Click to expand...

Back then only one forumite offered any explanation:

Don Hanson III said:
Kevin, what most folks say is "just fine", is a file will skate on the blade after the 10W30 quench.
What they don't know, is the blade could be much better, quenched in the proper oil.
Click to expand...

Back then I had Don, and now you have Ed thanks for the answers guys :thumbup: Anybody else?

When I am asked for explanations, I rant for pages to the point nobody can get a word in edgewise, at times I am surprised there is any bandwidth left for the other side. :rolleyes: So here I am vowing to sit back and keep quiet while people give Jake the input he was seeking.

P.S. Stephan, that turkey thing has to be a first and deserves and place in a Hall of Fame somewhere. You need to do some really crazy crap with that blade and then write it all up for a Blade magazine article about the amazing super turkey quench!:D
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
P.S. Stephan, that turkey thing has to be a first and deserves and place in a Hall of Fame somewhere. You need to do some really crazy crap with that blade and then write it all up for a Blade magazine article about the amazing super turkey quench!:D
Click to expand...



I'll be sure to show it to you at Blade. judging from the oddball oxidation patterns it could be really interesting....


(P.S. it DOES skate a file, sorta)
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
I am happy to see this thread still on the front page because not only do I feel bad for interfering with it but I really feel that the original question deserves answers. I shoot my mouth off about why some things may not be good enough, but I never sit back and shut up to hear the case for the other side, i.e. what is “it works just fine?” This is the chance for that since I am committed to non interference to the offering of those answers, especially since I knew there was a reason for my feeling guilty for interfering with Jakes inquiry and then I found it. :o Jake don’t feel bad I asked the exact same question here back on 12-14-2007:



Back then only one forumite offered any explanation:



Back then I had Don, and now you have Ed thanks for the answers guys :thumbup: Anybody else?

When I am asked for explanations, I rant for pages to the point nobody can get a word in edgewise, at times I am surprised there is any bandwidth left for the other side. :rolleyes: So here I am vowing to sit back and keep quiet while people give Jake the input he was seeking.

P.S. Stephan, that turkey thing has to be a first and deserves and place in a Hall of Fame somewhere. You need to do some really crazy crap with that blade and then write it all up for a Blade magazine article about the amazing super turkey quench!:D
Click to expand...

"just fine"= good enough usually expressed when some techno-geek like me asks why the steel a blade is made out of was what came easily to hand rather than a known steel like Aldo's 1084. The smith finds the blade to cut as well as expected therefore it is "just fine"

-Page
 
MS = my shorthand for master's degree. I guess that would better be represented as master of arts or MA, ?? Whatever, it is a master's degree in History....
 
wnease said:
well maybe you can tell us what an MS in history is...
Click to expand...

My feable attempt at a shorthand for Master's degree. Maybe the correct acronym would be MA-Master of Art??? Whatever, it was a master's degree in History....
 
Define "Just fine"....hm, Wife= just fine....Brook Burke= optimum.

...think about that a while.... it's an anology deeper than first glance reveals.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top