What are local knife shops thinking?

What local Knife Shops. In my area there are none they have all closed up 10 or more years ago. Now its just the Box box stores. We live in a "Wall-Mart" time we want it now and as cheap as we can get it no matter what quality. My family owned and ran a Hardware store one of those Mom and Pop type for 30+ years and then Lowes and Home Depot moved in kinda near by, and all of a sudden customers would rather drive 12 miles to a big box store than pay the extra 30 cents for a 2 x 4 and we offered free local delivery if you spent over 50 bucks. At least Benchmade requires you to have a actual store front to become a dealer, but some companys do not and you could set up a buiness selling knives out of you house or even a Place like the UPS store and you have very little over head that way.
 
I've talked with three brick and mortar stores. All three sell online, but they don't have a point of purchase website, that is automatically replenished. One dealer told me the cost of the software was too much. Out of all three stores, only one could be considered venturing into competitive prices with online dealers. I am sure that Case, Buck and SAKs are the mainstay of their business. Two out of three carry higher end knives like Chris Reeve, one carries customs, some of which I supplied to him. Only one has prices at MSRP or above on all products. Two of the businesses are family owned and on family property. I don't know if they are still paying on the property, or just have a utilities bill and have to pay employees. The third business was bought a couple years ago, and he has rent, utilities etc. Not only do they have to store these knives, they have to pay rent to store these knives. All three shops offer sharpening, and all three have someone local you can send knives in to for repair. All three have good connections with different knife companies, and all three have long standing reputations in the community.

If I can support two of them, I will. I cannot afford to support the one that sells for MSRP or above. I don't blindly support the two retailers either, if their prices are a little bit higher than online and I am in their store then and there, instant gratification wins the day. If their prices are sky high, they don't get my business.
 
It's pretty much already been said but here's my two cents worth anyway: The few brick and mortar shops have a MUCH higher cost to do business than an online store. If you factor in volume of sales it's tough for them to stay afloat, much less turn a significant profit. There is a saying "you can't out Walmart Walmart" which means if you are trying to sell things cheaply without customer service and support the big guys will always out do you. I personally buy all my better knives from dedicated shops and I make a point of thanking them for remaining open when I do make a purchase. I usually end up paying MSRP minus 10 to 20 percent (they all gladly give a military discount) and don't mind it. I'd much rather the traditional shops remain open as they are typically run by honest individuals with a passion for their trade. On occasion, it works out financially for me as well as I have found quite a few rare/discontinued blades that are not available through other venues short of fleabay. All in all, long live the mom and pop shops!
 
Just to throw another wrench in the wheel, we're not comparing these shops to Walmart. We're comparing to other legitimate businesses that support the knife community more than many brick and mortar stores.
 
It's really the overhead issue, mostly. The expense of floating a B&M store is massive, so the products sold in a B&M store have to be able to generate the cash flows at least equal to the point of break-even. Knives are super tough to do that with.
 
You want a brick and mortar to compete on price with a dealer that is primarily internet based? Forget it.

You want to get rid of all brick and mortar high end knife dealers? Only buy off the internet. If you have a good store, suck it up and buy something there regularly. If you never support a local business, you can't complain when they close up. If price is the only thing you look for, then the internet will always win. If you want service, you want to select "your knife" out of a bunch of the same model, you want to test the ergos on 2-3 different models, then you should give some support to the local shop.

We've become far to focused on price and have forgotten service and relationships. I've bought knives that really didn't do much for me at a knife show because the maker was so nice and I wanted to support his work. While that knife has sat in a drawer, I'm still glad I spent the money and hope that maker was able to keep at it.

And finally, as was said, most knife shops I've encountered were not targeted to the hardcore knife nerd. They make it off the walk in who wants a "nice knife" for Uncle Chester or their nephew who "likes knives."
 
I agree with your completely about the desire to support a local shop. Especially on a knife with spotty quality control, you can find that "perfect example". I would pay more for that, but not a lot more! Unfortunately, people are short sided and price themselves out of the market.
 
I’m pretty sure I know which store you are talking about op. When I was just getting into knives I was pleasantly surprised to see such a large knife store so close to home, but when I started to look at the prices I was shocked to see everything at MSRP. I thought that they would be higher than the websites and I would have been ok paying ten, twenty, even fifty bucks more for a knife there just to support them, but not MSRP. I try not to pay MSRP for anything much less for a hobby. At least they carry CRK and Striders at MSRP. I’ll probably end up with an Umnumzaan next year and I will check with them first to see if they have it before hitting the web.
 
00ChevyScott said:
But online dealers also pay rent, utilities, employees, taxes and lots of other expenses a brick and mortar store does. I can understand a little increased in price is understandable, but up to and over 100% is rediculous no matter what business you're trying to run.
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Could you give us a list of the successful retail businesses you've run?
 
I have a few local knife stores.

Big-5, Sportsman's Warehouse, and a privately owned place called Sports LTD. The one thing that is consistent between all of them, is that they all sell Cold Steel at MSRP. Otherwise, Big-5 sells Kershaw, CRKT, Taylor Brands, and a bunch of Strider and ZT ripoffs that I have never seen before. Sportsman's Warehouse carries SOG, CRKT, Kershaw, Benchmade, Spyderco, Victorinox, Leatherman, KaBar, TOPS, Buck, Taylor Brands, Puma, Camillus, Gerber, Case, and a few others; and all of their knives (except for Cold Steel) are about 5% over internet prices, Cold Steel is double internet prices. Sports LTD sells Benchmade and Cold Steel, Cold Steel being expensive and Benchmade is 5% above internet prices.

I have seen some stores in Sacramento and San Francisco, and they wanted $240 for a Benchmade Bedlam, $95 for an Endura 4; just ridiculous prices. I just bought a Bedlam for $140 and can get an Endura for $58.
 
I've bought from my LKS before. The prices were a bit steeper than I could have gotten online, but the entire experience was much more pleasant that online shopping. Instead of just typing in some words, clicking a few buttons and then getting my credit card out, I walked into the store and started talking to the guy at the counter. I had been there before and we knew each other, so he just started taking knives out of the counter to show to me. I think I spent around an hour or so just handling and fondling the knives (we went through Spyderco's, some ZTs, a few Benchmades, and ended with the Spyderco Tuff and Lionspy :P which were really tempting ) I didn't end up buying any of those but I did walk out with a Yojimbo2 and a Burgundy Red MeerKat Sprint. It was an extremely fun experience that I guarantee will never happen in an online store. That's what keeps me coming back to that store. The people there are nice an fun to shop with
 
But what incentive are these stores giving me to support them? They're sure not giving me a competitive price. I said it before, and I'll say it again, if their prices were within 5-10% of online prices, I'd be a customer for life. And we're talking about their price vs internet prices, not the prices they're actually buying the knives for. If their price is 100% above internet prices, I can only imagine how high that is over their actual dealer cost. I do not feel blindly spending your money is a wise choice for a consumer. A few dollars here and there isn't a big deal, but paying 100% markup for "general principle" isn't smart nor wise.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's really the overhead issue, mostly. The expense of floating a B&M store is massive, so the products sold in a B&M store have to be able to generate the cash flows at least equal to the point of break-even. Knives are super tough to do that with.
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Is it the fact that knives are usually a one time buy for most people? Or is it just that society is moving further and further away from the outdoors lifestyle? I know all of us here suffer from the never-enough-disease, but most "normal" people can buy just one knife and be happy for years and years haha.
 
They're probably thinking they have to pay the rent and the light bill and the staff and the heating/cooling and the property tax and the maintenance/upkeep and the...
 
Yep, the only businesses that have survived in my small town are those that provide direct services or offer products that cannot be easily shipped, like grocery stores, gas stations, mechanics, restaurants, liquor stores, and bars.
 
I like having BladeHQ as my local store because you can check it out online, go into the store and hold the real thing, and if you like it you get it and you can play with it in the car.
 
xander99 said:
I like having BladeHQ as my local store because you can check it out online, go into the store and hold the real thing, and if you like it you get it and you can play with it in the car.
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As much as I would love having them nearby it would be a bad thing, very bad.....I guess it would be better then hanging out in a bar and spending money on booze and hookers;)
 
00ChevyScott said:
Is it the fact that knives are usually a one time buy for most people? Or is it just that society is moving further and further away from the outdoors lifestyle? I know all of us here suffer from the never-enough-disease, but most "normal" people can buy just one knife and be happy for years and years haha.
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It's the fact that on the internet the entire world is your potential customer. Local shops exist to meet local demand. There is not sufficient demand for a dedicated knife shop to exist in most towns. Just not enough people in that area looking for knives of knife nut calibre.
 
My local shop prices a Delica at $109. 100% more than the cheapest online dealer. He complains of barely paying the light bill. While I understand he needs to make a profit, he also needs to move product! He has production knives 10-15 years old in the box. He has crossed out the prices and increased them along the way. Not many knowledgeable knife folks are going to pay 100-200% more for an ordinary,run of the mill BM or Spyderco. I did score a CE BM52 for $200 and flipped it for a $25 profit but he got another in the shop and put $600 on it!

If I thought I could make a living turning it into a local/internet shop I'd offer to buy his store but I'm sure it's a vicious market.
 
There's enough people around my area that don't check prices that the shops sell product at MSRP+ and still have no lack of customers. Since most of them are gun shops I'm sure they really couldn't care less whether they ever sell a knife. It's just a bonus for them.
 
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