What CAN I carry in NYC?

you guys are getting a little off topic and seeing that i have been a NYC cop more than a decade i take a little offense to your assumptions. 90% of us cops in NY are overworked and underpaid working 70+ hrs a week with 3 days off a month and for the most part good decent people trying to stay alive and get home to our neglected families. I know i work a pretty much thankless job and most of the public neither understands what we do or would dare walk a mile in our shoes... i risk my life everyday (so do the police in your area) so you can live your life.. and make stupid cracks about us on the internet.. try a little respect... i bet you make jokes about our military over in the middle east risking their lives too huh?
 
Esav Benyamin said:
NYC law says the knife must be carried completely concealed. If you carry a knife with a clip, you may forget and clip it to your pocket. If an officer sees it clipped, you got a problem.
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Kind of along the same line, regarding CCW, for some reason lots of people interpret Concealed Carry as a choice when they have a permit.

If I'm not mistaken, if your weapon is visible when you have a CCW, you are in violation of the ordinance.

CC means just that concealed, if some one sees your weapon exposed they can claim they were frightened and in fear of their lives.

That's why you get a CCW permit, so you can carry an SD weapon discreetly hidden on your person.

My advice to you if your going to the City is not to bring along anything your not willing to go home without.

I'm not saying you can't wander the streets with your SD weapon of choice but if you're flagrant and blatant about what you' carrying, expect to loose it, also if your going to sight see keep in mind a lot of places do cursory searches and some have metal detectors so check the policy of the places you plan on visiting.

Was that a serious enough answer?:D
 
jemen9 said:
"oh your one of those reading types aint ya?!" hahaha i got that once. my guess is none of them especially NYC. they get rid of all the good (loose term applied) cops by placing them on administration duties, thus leaving the dicks to patrol the streets.
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Yeah - call me an old stickler. :D

furfmonkey said:
you guys are getting a little off topic and seeing that i have been a NYC cop more than a decade i take a little offense to your assumptions. 90% of us cops in NY are overworked and underpaid working 70+ hrs a week with 3 days off a month and for the most part good decent people trying to stay alive and get home to our neglected families. I know i work a pretty much thankless job and most of the public neither understands what we do or would dare walk a mile in our shoes... i risk my life everyday (so do the police in your area) so you can live your life.. and make stupid cracks about us on the internet.. try a little respect... i bet you make jokes about our military over in the middle east risking their lives too huh?
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Not sure to whom that was directed but I assume you have actually read our Constitution (more than once, I'd hope) - if so, then I obviously wasn't directing my comment at you. I am directing it at every last civil servant - cop, politician, whatever - that thinks he has the right to ignore our Constitution. Those people deserve none of our respect but all of our contempt and they should be replaced by good Americans (like yourself, I assume) that understand the Constitution is more important than they are.

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Beckerhead #42
 
listen you can argue the constitution and state and local and even federal laws until we are both blue in the face.... you arent even from NY so you have no clue what really goes on here day to day in the crap holes of brooklyn ,the bronx,queens ,and the rest of the city.. i see more crap in an average day than you will probably see in a lifetime unless you were active military and have served in a forward position...
when you are surrounded by known killers,rapists, thieves and gang members whos goal in life is to kill each other and could care less about your existence and wouldn't think twice about offing you, the LAST thing on my mind is when section and under section and amended hyphenated code of the law or constitution im gonna arrest the guy for ... its pretty obvious when someone does something illegal and theres plenty of time while they are being processed,fingerprinted,and held for you to take as much time as you want to look up every little code you want to charge them with

the main goal is to get them off the street , in the car cuffed, without 10 of their boys jumping you while they film it all on their camera phones...
 
furfmonkey said:
listen you can argue the constitution and state and local and even federal laws until we are both blue in the face.... you arent even from NY so you have no clue what really goes on here day to day in the crap holes of brooklyn ,the bronx,queens ,and the rest of the city.. i see more crap in an average day than you will probably see in a lifetime unless you were active military and have served in a forward position...
when you are surrounded by known killers,rapists, thieves and gang members whos goal in life is to kill each other and could care less about your existence and wouldn't think twice about offing you, the LAST thing on my mind is when section and under section and amended hyphenated code of the law or constitution im gonna arrest the guy for ... its pretty obvious when someone does something illegal and theres plenty of time while they are being processed,fingerprinted,and held for you to take as much time as you want to look up every little code you want to charge them with

the main goal is to get them off the street , in the car cuffed, without 10 of their boys jumping you while they film it all on their camera phones...
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And thanks for that. I'm just saying you can do that (and I suspect you do) without trampling the rights of citizens. Cesspools like NYC and DC create and exacerbate their own problems by disregarding the 2nd and 4th Amendments (to name just two).

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Beckerhead #42
 
from my experience is a bad cop wants to be bad they will... constitution or not..
 
i hate all of the judicial system with a passion.. i have had countless good arrests with violent criminals released because the DA and courts want more money and make deals to let scumbags off the hook... people want to know why cops are pissed off all the time ... try working with quotas for arrests and tickets (even though its against union rules) they just call it something else...like a performance objective and if you dont bring your Sgt his 10 cell phone tickets for the day you get stuck on the worst post or partnered with the guy no one wants to work with.. or get a great arrest and have it plead down to a higher fine (money for the state) and have your arrest record screwed making you look bad.. or have a ticket thrown out for the judge saying "you never stated am or pm on the ticket" when in your sworn testimony the first thing you said was "at 1201 AM.....) %#%$#% i could give you a million reasons why i could be a complete jerk to people and probably even be justified for it .. but theres one thing that gets in the way of that my morals and values and my sense of right and wrong.. acting like that would make me no better than the people i bust.... damn morals.. wish i could put them on a shelf sometimes.. :) good thing im moving to FL soon...
 
furfmonkey said:
you guys are getting a little off topic and seeing that i have been a NYC cop more than a decade i take a little offense to your assumptions. 90% of us cops in NY are overworked and underpaid working 70+ hrs a week with 3 days off a month and for the most part good decent people trying to stay alive and get home to our neglected families. I know i work a pretty much thankless job and most of the public neither understands what we do or would dare walk a mile in our shoes... i risk my life everyday (so do the police in your area) so you can live your life.. and make stupid cracks about us on the internet.. try a little respect... i bet you make jokes about our military over in the middle east risking their lives too huh?
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I really didn't see your reason to get so defensive. This is still a relatively free place to live and work and post for that matter. I personally have great respect for police work but I must say that I have had some difficulty instilling that in my kids because the few contacts they have had have been unfortunate to the point of being ridiculous. The random video such as the one posted in this thread don't help either. Contrary to your contention, there is no reason for anyone to be a jerk to anyone else and it be justified but police, above all, should never let ego get in the way. Being overworked and underpaid is a good excuse to seek employment elsewhere but not to have a chip on your shoulder.

Please don't mix our combat military in with police work. The rules of engagement are totally different. You can quit at any time. The soldier is in for his enlistment or a deserter. He can be ordered even to a relatively certain death. You can quit at any time. Both you and those you come in contact with are protected by the same constitution. In a combat zone no one has such eloquent protection.

I posted this in another thread but it really belongs here instead.
furfmonkey said:
iv'e been a cop over 13 years....

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

"Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
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Tell me where I'm wrong here. I feel like this statute was one of those things put in place to further penalize those committing other crimes and possessing weapons. The issue I put in bold print obviously characterizes most normal folding knives concealed or not as legal. Further the other characteristics do not eliminate the normal folding knife of most any size. In other words illegal if and only if "with the intent to use the same unlawfully against another" or the other items specifically mentioned (stilleto, dirk and so forth...) but not the normal folder.

The note at the end I doubt is anything other than a warning not to carry a knife put in after the fact with no legal standing. Replacing the word "construed" with perverted might be more accurate.

You and the NYPD have obviously put your own spin on the law. I would go on about how this is still a relatively free country even if the city isn't. I just now realize how illegal I have often been in the city according to you but I still contend not according to the law.

I really think it's the slippery slope that is oft used when discussing guns. (I'll spare you the whole spiel; you've likely heard it many times.) It's comforting to the criminal who can and will posses a gun to know that the average law abiding citizen will definitely not be armed. I suppose in the city, that applies to knives as well. Not according to the law but according to the practices of the police.

I suppose I can't blame you but I would agree with the premise that stopping an otherwise law abiding citizen when you see he posses a pocket knife would be an abuse of power and any further legal action downright ridiculous. The statute, as you quoted it but with my emphasis, is reasonable; the note and your interpretation of it is an aberration no doubt caused by harsh realities of the city and too long in that arena. Enjoy your move to Florida.
 
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Mal, agree with most of what you said on the law. If you look up the entire section of the NYSPL 265.00, you will see that mere possession "By any person" of the stilettos, dagger and knife designed as a weapon meets the intent requirment. Silly, yes but the law, and it implies possession on your person and not general possession ( home).
The law is basically unchanged in state law since 1958! The state law is almost always the one used, as the city Admin Code only covers exposed carry and blade lenght. The NYPD has been considering "flickable" folding knives that lock as gravity knives for many years, but it is only since our anti weapon Mayor Mike took over, that anyone who even think of arresting someone just for a knife. In my day working for the city, you would have been laughed out of the station house for bringing in a guy for a simple knife violation of either section of the law, and most people thought the exposed knife law was new since it was never enforced, however Mayor KOCH is the one who signed it into law in 88-89.....
 
tom19176 said:
Mal, agree with most of what you said on the law. If you look up the entire section of the NYSPL 265.00, you will see that mere possession "By any person" of the stilettos, dagger and knife designed as a weapon meets the intent requirment. Silly, yes but the law, and it implies possession on your person and not general possession ( home).
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I agree and don't even really think it to be silly.
tom19176 said:
The law is basically unchanged in state law since 1958! The state law is almost always the one used, as the city Admin Code only covers exposed carry and blade lenght. The NYPD has been considering "flickable" folding knives that lock as gravity knives for many years, but it is only since our anti weapon Mayor Mike took over, that anyone who even think of arresting someone just for a knife. In my day working for the city, you would have been laughed out of the station house for bringing in a guy for a simple knife violation of either section of the law, and most people thought the exposed knife law was new since it was never enforced, however Mayor KOCH is the one who signed it into law in 88-89.....
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Yes, the interpretation is the problem. That whole section I printed in small print. "Gravity" meaning 1 G (32 ft per second per second) allowing the blade to go all the way to open is one thing but when they added "centrifugal force" and the "locking open", they left the door open for an interpretation that really eliminates knives that are tools and have nothing to do with weapons. I was ignorant of that and would likely have wasted my and the NYPD's time similarly to the posted video had I been stopped.
furfmonkey said:
yeah i saw mals post... i don't waste my time with ignorance..
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I need not respond to the policeman's post other than to say it is unfortunately similar to how many in that profession respond to someone questioning them on anything and is to be expected.
 
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you said

"Contrary to your contention, there is no reason for anyone to be a jerk to anyone else and it be justified but police, above all, should never let ego get in the way. Being overworked and underpaid is a good excuse to seek employment elsewhere but not to have a chip on your shoulder."


First off its very apparent you are one of those people who love to take little tidbits of a persons conversation and multi quote and copy paste and try to 1 up people on the internet.. you are one of those "But in this post you made 2 years ago you said...and NOW you are saying this..." i call them internet lawyers (for all i know you could be one) anyways if every cop who ever had a bad day,week,or month just decided to "seek employment elsewhere" as you said there would be no law enforcement.. i am WELL aware of what my job entailed before i signed up i was a fireman for 8 yrs before i became police officer and still am.. My father was a 4th battalion fire chief and my uncle was a police chief of 2 different police departments in California.. (not that you need to know) my family has a rich history of duty,honor, and serving and helping others .. it would take more than taking crap all day from gang members and drug addicts and murderers to keep me from getting up everyday and serving humanity... Am i not allowed to vent on an internet forum? I understand ALOT can be read into a forum post when people let their imaginations go wild...

but just because i work in a hell hole and deal with scum everyday does not excuse nor give anyone else an excuse to violate peoples right... I NEVER SAID THAT.. you really have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in the NYPD and to assume so would be...well ignorant almost every single police officer on reg patrol has "performance objectives" which is an end run around quotas (against PBA rules) if an officer does not make these "performance objectives" they can be written up by being put in minor violations or given a command discipline which will follow that officer the rest of his career and affect promotions.. These objectives put unnecessary stress and pressure on the officers to write tickets like cell phones, stop and frisk reports,(in burglary zones) or moving violations etc the sgt or capt does not care how the officers get them only that they do.. this will cause officers to make poor decisions and most likely write tickets they would NOT otherwise write.. even ones they know will be overturned if fought in traffic court just to make that "performance objective"

the reason im saying all of this? if there was no "performance objective" or what i call BS pressure to write BS tickets so the bosses can justify their existence.. 70% of the wrongful knife tickets and stop and frisk reports and unnecessary ticketing would stop... especially new rookie cops who don't know any better and are on a 2 year probation (they can be fired at any time for pretty much anything) are forced to write nonsense tickets or lose their job.. its a travesty to the public and to us... to answer the question you have brewing in your head ...No i don't write tickets like that.. thats probably why im not a Sgt or the fact why i still work in a bad location.. My sense of honor and my personal morals and sense of whats right and wrong goes against doing wrong to people (even criminals)...If i wasn't decent to the people of Brownsville i would have been dead years ago.. im a 6ft tall white guy with 60 tattoos working in a gang neighborhood if i didnt respect my fellow man i would have been shot or stabbed long ago.. I was told i was turned down for a transfer to a precinct close to my house because i don't "play the game" or "give the Sgt his due" have i fought this? yes i have I have gotten 2 Sgts demoted for improper actions 1 for sexual harassment of my female partner (no longer a cop had a child) and another Sgt who refused me days off and was caught on tape telling me i would never get a promotion or transfer while he was my boss just because im a "goodie 2 shoes"

so yeah man i take sh#t personal i bust my butt for this city and see little in return except a steady paycheck and 1/2 salary pension.. but guess what/ its those times when i deliver a baby (i've delivered 5 between fire and police) or save a woman from an abusive husband, or know that i have made a difference in someones life...this is the internet where i can have a sense of anonymity to vent and relax and enjoy knives with others that do so... if you choose to argue about friggin gravity or laws thats your choice ...watch these videos and type from the safety of your nice warm home while i walk the streets and keep you safe :)

btw this is where i work (where they cut the dogs vocal cords and nails so we don't hear them coming) more than once ive been at a pit bull shooting

New York Times Video (this rule has been changed) just showing the neighborhood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8ZXrps9ys

video depicting the bloods and the cripps btw the movie New Jack city is based off my pct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqNfXg1nE3k
 
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post whatever you want .... im not replying anymore... i dont need to explain wtf i do for a living to someone who wouldnt even drive through the neighborhood i walk in at night by myself... i bet the scariest decision you make everyday is what songs you listen to on your ipod... when people are running away from danger we run towards it.. proudly
 
The people here who haven't been in the tougher neighborhoods of NYC have absolutely zero clue what they are talking about. Absolutely none.

Try spending a few days in some of downtown Brooklyn's neighborhoods and then you might have a slight inkling of what police in NYC go through. NYC's Finest are way underpaid, way overworked, and get next to zero appreciation for it.

I know some cops in the city, the few stories I have heard are tame compared to the ones they won't tell me. SO BAD THEY DON'T EVEN WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. To think that I get pissed off and bitch about a bad day, how about a NYC cops bad day?
 
furfmonkey said:
post whatever you want .... im not replying anymore... i dont need to explain wtf i do for a living to someone who wouldnt even drive through the neighborhood i walk in at night by myself... i bet the scariest decision you make everyday is what songs you listen to on your ipod... when people are running away from danger we run towards it.. proudly
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I sincerely apologize for rubbing you the wrong way and am glad you have a place to vent. You certainly need it and it doesn't seem possible at work. As to experiences and a life's work; I would never compare mine to anyone's. You would win that bet today (though I don't own an I pod, pad, phone, or I anything) but suffice it to say you wouldn't have for 20 years and might not for another 20+ years of my working life. The thread is about NYC knife laws so, I agree, neither of us needs explain our line of work or that of our father's unless we feel the need to in that context.

As to my internet profile and habits, my join date and number of posts pretty much describes it. I enjoy a good discussion and often learn a lot. Additionally I'm pretty much a computer idiot so what you meant as a criticism I take as a complement. Finally I have quite thick skin and as a result likely not enough tact. Other readers of this thread can judge all that for themselves. I do prefer what seems to have become my methods to a one line insult or a rant, however.

I really was just asking the question, tell me where I'm wrong in my understanding of the statute.

I do want to make sure you understand that I wasn't saying you made a jerk of yourself but merely responding to your contention that, quote: "%#%$#% i could give you a million reasons why i could be a complete jerk to people and probably even be justified for it ." As I said it can't be justified at all, ever, and I'm glad you have the moral fiber not to. If all in that profession were that way; my kids would have the respect I do.

Thanks for the candid look into the workings of the NYPD. Having been in similar situations in the military; it's pretty much as I expected. I also thought myself a bit too moral to go as far as I think my abilities would have taken me. I refused to participate in the back stabbing and brown nosing that seemed too often to be politics as normal.

Unfortunately the thread has veered from NYC knife laws so unless it gets back there; I'll join you in abstaining.....
 
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Back to the topic of the thread, I think it has been covered. The Op asked what can he carry in NYC and there was quotation of both the state and city laws, and an important insight into the fact that anyone is much more likely to be stopped and frisked for weapons in NYC than any other place in the USA. This is true, good or bad, legal or not, and it aids in the answer to the question first asked. The other part which I stressed is that in today's NYC you will be arrested by many officers for carrying a knife that can be flicked open and locks. This falls under the current defintion of a gravity knife and has been upheld numerous times in court.
To end this in a civil manner, in NYC do not carry any knife exposed. Do not carry a locking knife that can be flicked open, or any knife with the intent to use it as a weapon. Blade must be under 4" for any knife carried for general use. And yes there is a quota system in the NYPD that forces officers to make arrest and write criminal court summons to keep their job ( and there are about 28,000 on active patrol).
That sums up the present conditions in NYC as sad as they maybe for those of us that value our rights.
 
Having grown up and worked in NYC all my life,the only kinves I would think of carrying in NYC are those that wont scare the Sheeple. Such as keychain SAK's or Leatherman tools. Non-locking SAK's are usually considered non-offensive. And any small(3 inches or less)bladed slip-joint knives. I think the four inch blade law is great,but in practice smaller is safer to carry. If you are law-abiding and use said items in a low-key,discreet manner,I doubt you will have any negative contact with law enforcement. I have friends and family that have served in the NYPD and that is what they have all told me. There are many fine men and women serving in the NYPD. Like any other large organization,there are those that sometimes put the organization in a poor light.
 
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