What do the custom makers sharpen with?

D

Dago Red

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
987
Hey guys,

I have a Lansky and I have one of those electric deals. The electric is actually decent for most quicky things, cheap knives or fast sharpens for kitchen stuff. A knife with good steel will actually sometimes be sharp enough to shave my hand. (backside not palm) The lansky though, it does a decent job, but takes frickin forever. On a chef's knife for instance I don't see that the 2 hours I put in with it (maybe I do something wrong, maybe it's that I only have the original three stones) are worth it.

I have done a lot of reading here, there is the edge pro, some other one that lets you set the angles. and then there is the paper wheel setup. I'm wondering what the makers use, Nick Wheeler for instance on those gorgeous bowies? I want something I can do my 10" chef's knife as well as my tiny pen knife (lansky sucks for anything tiny). I will invest in a grinder and the paper wheel setup if that's really the best route.

also, if you're using the wheel, versus just "by hand" is there a way guys are setting their angle? the blade clamp on bubble level I've seen on here? I have access to 10-20 cheapy chinese kitchen knives (somebody bought at work, if you look at them they dull) I could "practice" on.

Thanks guys.

Red
 
I'm not a custom maker but I sharpen all of my knives with Japanese whetstones. It takes me maybe 15-20 minutes maximum including setup and cleanup to sharpen a 10" gyuto to the point of shaving sharp. I use a 400grit for repairs and chips, 2k and 4k for normal sharpening along with a felt and leather strop.
 
I would not call myself a knife maker, but I do take great pride in making things sharp from end-mills to scissors. The Tormek T-7 is what I use now and love it. It’s kinda spendy, but I’m glad I have it now. It puts a nice edge on all of my knives.
 
I have a nice set of norton india stones and a 1000 grit dmt stone I use for small blades. For big blades I use my KMG with a 320 grit belt run wet and then strop on leather with green compound.

I used to use paper wheels but after alot of use I think the edges cut better and last longer with other methods that dont involve as much heat build up.
 
It really depends on the knife I'm making and the customer. I used to do my sharpening on the belt sander, but felt I was removing far too much metal and had fears of ruining the edge temper... so now I do everything by hand.

If it's a kitchen knife which will be sharpened on stones, I take it to a near zero edge and sharpen it with stones. If it's something I want that perfect "factory" looking edge at a known angle, I use the Lansky starting at around the 200 grit stone. Doesn't take long at all. The only reason I use a lower grit stone is to remove chips.

If it's taking you a long time to sharpen your knives without an electric sharpener or sander, you're probably leaving your knives too thick at the edge before sharpening. You shouldn't have to remove much.
 
I sharpen all my knives on stones. After I am done grinding and polishing, weather hunter or kitchen knife, the blade is nearly sharp enough to shave with. when the knife is done I then sharpen on a norton fine india stone to the point where it will shave hair. I then move to a Washita stone. after that the knife is very sharp but not quite sharp enough so I go to a natural japanese water stone at ~6000 grit and finish on a natural at ~8000. if you are careful to remove the wire edge on the 6000 and then refine on the 8000 grit no stopping is needed. this leaves a very fine toothed edge that is (for me anyway) the definition of scary sharp. this sounds like a long tedious process and it can be but with practice a person gets very good. I can do about six knives an hour using an assembly line process.
 
belts. no issues here. You can burn the edge if you dwell, but after your technique is developed, you're gtg.
 
I use a Lansky actually. But I use the deluxe diamond version. It comes with an 80 grit diamond stone that will make quick work of establishing the edge on a newly made knife...

I have a video showing how I sharpen here:
[video=youtube;ZlI5PaXsfOk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlI5PaXsfOk[/video]
 
Bill Burke said:
I sharpen all my knives on stones. After I am done grinding and polishing, weather hunter or kitchen knife, the blade is nearly sharp enough to shave with. when the knife is done I then sharpen on a norton fine india stone to the point where it will shave hair. I then move to a Washita stone. after that the knife is very sharp but not quite sharp enough so I go to a natural japanese water stone at ~6000 grit and finish on a natural at ~8000. if you are careful to remove the wire edge on the 6000 and then refine on the 8000 grit no stopping is needed. this leaves a very fine toothed edge that is (for me anyway) the definition of scary sharp. this sounds like a long tedious process and it can be but with practice a person gets very good. I can do about six knives an hour using an assembly line process.
Click to expand...

Bill,

I've been doing a similar process. I'm just curious, have you ever counted the strokes? I set an edge using my fine India stone last week with a blade finish ground basically to 0. Took me somewhere near 250 strokes to get it "sharp."

Does that sound about right for a hunting knife (3 inch blade)?
 
I take most of the meat off with the NWG then switch to the diamond stones (course and fine) then I have a solid strop with white compound on. After a couple minutes on the strop it is very sharp. I use the same strop for my leather working round knives.
 
Shaw Blades said:
Bill,

I've been doing a similar process. I'm just curious, have you ever counted the strokes? I set an edge using my fine India stone last week with a blade finish ground basically to 0. Took me somewhere near 250 strokes to get it "sharp."

Does that sound about right for a hunting knife (3 inch blade)?
Click to expand...

Nope never counted them all. I do count strokes from side to side so to keep them even but not total strokes
 
Depends on how much steel you have to sharpen, really. If you value your time, a 600 grit belt on a belt sander can put a decently polished convex edge on a blade in under a minute. A few minutes with a strop, and you're good to go.
 
Not an established maker, but I've made over 100 knives and I use a wicked edge on every one. I like the time I spend doing it and the results are awesome!
 
I have a 2x72" belt grinder. Too much? You go on the slack or over the platen? Any tips on angle?

What does it mean 0 angle?

Thanks for the tips guys

Red
 
Dago Red said:
I have a 2x72" belt grinder. Too much? You go on the slack or over the platen? Any tips on angle?

What does it mean 0 angle?

Thanks for the tips guys

Red
Click to expand...

I use the slack portion for a more convexed edge. Seems to polish it really well... Way more consistent than any hand sharpening method. Just remember that it goes FAST, so don't let the blade touch it for long. Angle is more or less the same as you'd sharpen at freehand.
 
I use my 1x30 belt sander. I use belts in a progression from 60 to about 5 micron when setting the edge. I then use a leather belt with green compound. For an extra step I finish with 1 micron diamond spray on a leather strop.
 
IMHO, if you need to use a belt grinder to sharpen, the edge is too thick.

Like Bill, my blades are pretty well sharp after the finish grinding and/or hand finishing.

I have a lot of sharpening stuff, but what I use consistently is a DMT (diamond spray coated bars) in 600 and one in 1200. I remove the tiny wire edge with a final super light stroke and then do a couple very light passes on a hard backed strop.

It usually takes me about 6-10 swipes per side on each stone, sometimes less. Two passes per side on the strop.

I sharpen everything from paring knives to camp knives this way... the only thing that changes is the angle of the blade to the stones (a kitchen knife is almost laying on the stone, a chopper's spine will be lifted off quite a bit more).


I would like to try the Japanese stones like Bill mentioned... One of these days. :)
 
Following Bill, Shaw and Nick, I'll go into a bit of detail rather than just saying "stones".:p

My finish beveling usually ends up with a rather sharp but yet unrefined edge. The final process removes any unwanted "micro-tempering" and sets the lead cutting edge angles to suit the intended function of the knife. I do that with a 4000gt Norton water stone. Then I use a light touch on an 8000gt water stone to remove the wire edge(if there is one) and polish. After that I lay a sheet of wet newsprint across the 8000gt and do my final stroping. The only time I use a loaded leather strop is in the field. I have also found that for cutting green brush or butchering meat, that going back to the 4000gt(after everything else... two superlight strokes per side) puts on an excellent micro-serration, that gives me chills on my back even thinking about what it is capable of on human flesh:eek: I think that is the "scary sharp" Bill, is talking about. I simply see it as a different kind of sharp. A highly polished/smooth edge gives a great push-cut for woodworking and wears at a slower rate, IMO.

Here is a little impromptu clip of me sharpening my bud's knife before a trek. Bear in mind, this was not meant as an educational video. He just whipped out the camera.

[video=youtube;UAxd7SV-ZtM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAxd7SV-ZtM[/video]
 
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I have tried some smaller stones (4" in length, not good for bigger knives), used the Lanskey and wicked edge stuff. I was then showed how to use a grinder and a buffer. I don't recommend the buffer, it can be really unsafe. You can also mess up with the grinder really easily which I have done. I was just asking Nick about how he sharpened his knives, and bothering other makers about this same topic....

I have been wanting to try the some DMT stones and have been asking around. For the guys using stones what size of stones are you using? I would also like to hear about the different angles that are associated with the different types of knives; hunters, bowies, choppers, etc. I was watching the sharpening video that the ABS has on their youtube video and that is good info, but I was curious about the change in angle at the tip area?

Here is the link to that ABS video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW26uMi5ojw

-Brian-
 
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