What do the custom makers sharpen with?

DMT guided sharpening/Aligner kit and stone. I'll go up to their Extra Extra Fine/3 micron/8k grit diamond stone. Simple, stupid and very effective and leaves a very nice non-toothy edge. On longer knives I'll set up two guides along the spine in order to keep the edge geometry of the tip area consistent with the belly.

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This is a great thread, I was wondering the same question. "What do the pros do to sharpen a new knife?" I'm only ankle deep in this hobby so far, but I've been sharpening knives nonstop since my grandfather "learned" me how. He taught me how to sharpen a knife so that it will split a hair lengthwise. When I was 10, that was really something! Working at a hardware store, we had a bench grinder with the paper wheel setup, so I got familiar with sharpening on a bench grinder. When I have a new knife to sharpen, I use my belt grinder (the cheapo delta 4x36, I don't have a proper grinder) with a 120 grit belt. The edge doesn't make contact for more than a second or two per stroke, and I am extremely cautious about preventing unwanted tempering. Sometimes I will then switch to a 400 belt, and then an 800, and then strop. If I want a more refined edge, I will go from the 120 belt to DMT Diasharp stones, using the "coarse", then the "fine". From there I go to Spyderco's fine ceramic, and then strop (leather with green compound). If I really feel like having fun, I'll go from the DMT stones to 4000 and then 8000 grit waterstones, then strop. Thanks for this thread, guys!
 
Can't really call myself a maker yet, but I plan to do my convex the same as I do my other knives. With the belt grinder.

IMAG1961_zps8hqonvc6.jpg


For v-edges, where appropriate, I'll use the edge pro.

Both cut like lasers and I take great pride and care in making them.
 
I figured I better copy and paste my email reply to Brian the Weatherman when he asked me if I recommended sharpening with a slack belt. I explained why I PERSONALLY don't like sharpening on the grinder... So I don't have a lynch mob at the front door over my first post. :eek: ;)

<<<<<I don't care for using a slack belt. The only time I sharpen that way is if it's a machete or maybe one of my sandpaper shop knives.

It's fast and easy, but it's VERY VERY EASY to totally F-up a completely finished knife.

A slack belt's edge rolls (which is a great thing for handle shaping) but that means it wants to roll when you get your blade close to the plunge cuts... which means it will dish-out the edge right near the plunges.

You can avoid some of that if you use one of the film backed 3M micron belts, but they can still do it, and their edges cut like a bandsaw... another quick way to fubar your plunges if you go just a little too far to one side or the other.


I sharpen all my knives the way I described in the little bowie thread, the only thing that changes (depending on the knife), is the angle of the blade to the stone. I really like the DMT diamond coated bars. I would like to try some of the Japanese water stones, but since the ones I've been looking at are at least $100/each, I'm not in a hurry on that, LOL.>>>



Also, I'm really glad Rick posted again, as somehow I had totally forgotten about the Norton combo waterstones... Thanks Rick! It's a lot easier to swallow spending ~$85 on a combo stone to try it out (not knowing for sure if you'll like it) than it is to spend $100-300 per stone and not know.
 
NickWheeler said:
I figured I better copy and paste my email reply to Brian the Weatherman when he asked me if I recommended sharpening with a slack belt. I explained why I PERSONALLY don't like sharpening on the grinder... So I don't have a lynch mob at the front door over my first post. :eek: ;)
Click to expand...

Sorry Nick, didn't mean to create a mob. I didn't see this thread until after we emailed.
 
Oh you didn't Brian, I replied to your email before I replied the first time to this thread.

But when 80% of the posters say they use a grinder, and I say I don't like a grinder for sharpening... Well, that type of thing usually brings about the same result as peeing into the wind. ;)
 
Nick - I hear you. Makes sense.

When I started making knives 3 years ago, Stacy started me out. Then a little bit later I got a hold of an maker here in CO that was nice enough to show me about grinding and some of the little things that help out a first time maker. He showed me how to sharpen with a grinder and a buffing wheel. I have tried that and some other methods but never really found the right process for me yet, ( I have heard horror stories about getting a sharp knife in the thigh ). My knives are sharp but not what I want them to be.

So I figured I would ask Nick because I love his work and the videos he has been posting about how his knives cut are pretty good, so why not try that process. I have seen other guys use the wicked edge stuff. There are a lot of different way to do it. I am need to find the process that I like and works for me. I have had to fix many knives because I have slipped on the grinder.

This thread has helped a lot. Many good posts and good thoughts that at least helps me.

Thanks guys!

-Brian-
 
NickWheeler said:
another quick way to fubar your plunges if you go just a little too far to one side or the other.
Click to expand...

Ugh... So true. I wish I had known that before I jacked up a couple of my knives.

I'm at the point that I won't use the grinder on knives that have plunges. I really need to put a sticker on my own little grinder that quotes your uh... quote.

Ever considered writing a book? I'd read it. :o
 
I have been making knives off and on for quite a few years. I started out sharpening on 2"x72" grinder . Not real happy with results so I started using disc grinder. Better but still not what I wanted. I even bought the tormek but I've messed up to many knives. Need more practice on it. I know it works as another knife maker that has one has sharpened some knives of mine and they turned out great. I always ended up going back to the lansky system as I could always get a sharp knife with that system. It takes way to long though on larger knives. I did a bit of research and ordered the edge pro pro. Waiting for it to show up and will report back how I find it to work with.
Jim
 
I use the 2x72 for most blades, but I also use stones.

My "standard" method is up to a 320 grit belt on the slack section for a mild convex toothy edge, then move to an extra hard buff loaded with diamond lapidary powder, running extra slow, basically a power strop. I find that it polishes the edges of the "teeth" without polishing them off. I like a slightly convex edge, and never really was fond of the sandpaper on mouse pad method.

I have experienced issues such as Nick described above with belt curling, etc. on the 2x72, which is when I move to a stone set. I have an assortment of very nice stones that were owned by my grandfather and father. Specialty knives are much more likely to see a stone. I also sharpen chisels, tool bits, etc. on a stone.

The edge I get on the 2x72/diamond strop is sharp enough to shave a whole side of my leg clean in a single pass, and toothy enough to go through rope fairly easily. I consider it a good working edge for most purposes. I inspect with a 10x loupe during bevel formation and raising a burr, then move up to 40x for stropping and 100x for final inspection. I don't go crazy or anything, but I do like to make sure that my process is doing what I think it is supposed to.

I inspect frequently during bevel formation and take my time with the belt running slow, so I don't feel that I really take any extra material off. I creep up on the centerline of the edge, and then stop right when I raise a small burr under the loupe.

There are probably plenty of folks out there that are much, much better than I am at sharpening, with a much more sophisticated process, but I am happy with performance of my edges, and so far my customers seem to be happy with them.
 
Looks like I need to get some stones then. I'm not going to go to the point of checking them with a loupe, I'm too lazy. I like to go till it can shave hairs and I figure that is good. I have an old combination stone set (on the triangle block) but they are all out of flat and probably not worth flattening anyways. I have a couple of barbers hones I can use for the final polishing. I always worry about being consistent though, I just need more practice I guess.

I'm real glad I asked before I got onthat 2x72, I can't imagine how bad I would have messed up the first few I tried. I have used it for my axes, and will still do that, but I think I'll avoid it for now for the pocked knives.

Red
 
Boatbuilder said:
I have been making knives off and on for quite a few years. I started out sharpening on 2"x72" grinder . Not real happy with results so I started using disc grinder. Better but still not what I wanted. I even bought the tormek but I've messed up to many knives. Need more practice on it. I know it works as another knife maker that has one has sharpened some knives of mine and they turned out great. I always ended up going back to the lansky system as I could always get a sharp knife with that system. It takes way to long though on larger knives. I did a bit of research and ordered the edge pro pro. Waiting for it to show up and will report back how I find it to work with.
Jim
Click to expand...
Well my Edge Pro Pro arrived a couple days ago and I'm really liking it so far. I have practiced on my wife's kitchen knives and they are the sharpest they have ever been. I then sharpened some custom knife orders that were ready and WOW. Takes a bit of getting used to but I feel this system is going to work great for me.
Jim
 
belts for some (like Nick said micron belts can be a blessing or a curse ) and waterstones for all single bevel knives and every razor often i go up to 16k grit on them
 
Well I did a final touch up on a pocket knife the other day w a stone. Had been ages and I did slip and scratch the spine a but on one pass. But it did get it that final shaving (my hand) sharp. I don't know the grit, it was an old barber home I had on my shelf.

When I recover from Christmas ill get some stones. Starting e the nortons. I just have a couple more questions
1 I just got a nice Keyshawn blur for Christmas (wish it had a flipper thingy or more rounded thumb stud) and it is slightly recurved, do you all keep a spyderco triangle sharpener thing around for recurves?

2 I would like to start honing my own razors. Versus paying 20-25 a piece to get it done (the guy does great and takes them up to I think 15k + on shaptons) how high a grit should I go? Or how high before switching to my swatty? Razors seem like no brainers since I don't determine the angle but rather lay them flat. I tou Jerome up two nights ago as a test and sure enough it shaved better the next morning.

Thanks all

Red
 
most the time i only use norton 4/8k combo and china 12k then finish with crox lightly loaded bench strop. if im feeling froggy or the steel is not gettign just the way i want it i do have an 16k grit shapton. my bread and butter is 4/8 and 12 k

the razors i make and hone are 52100 and XHP some steels act a little different on the hones and might like a different set of hones or even strokes per hone (thats why the honmisters have lots of hones to play with )
 
I use stones to create the full bevel on FFG slicers, and use a stone to put a secondary bevel on convex choppers.
 
my favorite tools, depends on where I am and what I'm doing:

-belt grinder & 120 grit, medium and fine Scotch Brite belts
-King Waterstones
-Sharpmaker rods
-buffer
-sandpaper
-envelopes


Bottom line is I will get the knife sharp with whatever I can find. Power tools for sharpening can be good or bad. Much faster to get you to where you need to be, also incredibly fast at ruining knives if you aren't sure of what you're doing.

Some knives I grind thin and can receive an initial bevel on a stone very fast. Others have thick edges for duty use and a stone would take entirely too long, plus I have never seen anyone able to keep their concentration on a stone for that long.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Following Bill, Shaw and Nick, I'll go into a bit of detail rather than just saying "stones".:p

My finish beveling usually ends up with a rather sharp but yet unrefined edge. The final process removes any unwanted "micro-tempering" and sets the lead cutting edge angles to suit the intended function of the knife. I do that with a 4000gt Norton water stone. Then I use a light touch on an 8000gt water stone to remove the wire edge(if there is one) and polish. After that I lay a sheet of wet newsprint across the 8000gt and do my final stroping. The only time I use a loaded leather strop is in the field. I have also found that for cutting green brush or butchering meat, that going back to the 4000gt(after everything else... two superlight strokes per side) puts on an excellent micro-serration, that gives me chills on my back even thinking about what it is capable of on human flesh:eek: I think that is the "scary sharp" Bill, is talking about. I simply see it as a different kind of sharp. A highly polished/smooth edge gives a great push-cut for woodworking and wears at a slower rate, IMO.

Here is a little impromptu clip of me sharpening my bud's knife before a trek. Bear in mind, this was not meant as an educational video. He just whipped out the camera.

[video=youtube;UAxd7SV-ZtM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAxd7SV-ZtM[/video]
Click to expand...

I wanted to give a a quick shout out to Rick for showing us how he gets knives crazy sharp. After watching his video I decided to get myself a Norton Waterstone Starter Kit. I found it cheaper on Amazon (lucky since I had an Amazon gift card). It includes two double side stones (220/1000 grit, and 4000/8000 grit), a flattening stone, plus an instructional video.

Thanks, Rick, for sharing the secret. I sincerely appreciate it.
 
Yeah that's a good video. That actually got me into the stones versus zooming out a fat edge on a grinder. Sometimes I still have to put a couple of pennies on the end of the stone to help get my angle started.
 
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