What Happened to the ZT 0888?

I'm new here so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I was at the show in Jersey City and I didn't see any custom knives equal for the price on the 0600 and 0777's I have. Materials, blade steel, fit and finish on my examples were superior to customs for the same price. MSRP or secondary for that matter. I saw plenty of customs with lesser steel, usually S30V that were dull, not centered with blade play and the action wasn't as good as mine.

I hope ZT or KAI is making money off these one way or another and I hope a lot of people get stuck with their 0888's trying to cash in. From what I can see the S110-V steel on the 0888 may be a watse being a composite.
 
Volume and outsourcing.

CRK is a small company that makes everything in house and probably makes a fraction of the pieces that Ruger does.

Do you think Ruger has some guy sitting at a CNC machine making cylinders? No, they probably contract with a plant who churns out 100,000 of them at a time for pennies
each.

Find me a knife that costs as much as a Ruger that's made in the same quantity as a Ruger and then you'll have an argument.
 
Very interesting discussion. My opinion with minimal understanding is that of Dave's (Kershawguy). With the low number of pieces compared to the man hours plus the machine hours plus the materials put into these pieces like the 0888 and the 0777, There is no way they are making money. The publicity, interest, R&D, and the teamwork from the factory are where the real investment is gained from these low number highly detailed pieces. Believe it or not.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Volume and outsourcing.

CRK is a small company that makes everything in house and probably makes a fraction of the pieces that Ruger does.

Do you think Ruger has some guy sitting at a CNC machine making cylinders? No, they probably contract with a plant who churns out 100,000 of them at a time for pennies
each.

Find me a knife that costs as much as a Ruger that's made in the same quantity as a Ruger and then you'll have an argument.
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Picture from the Ruger factory. I'll give you the volume, but no Ruger doesn't sub-contract out it's parts for pennies each. http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-FactoryVisit.htm And almost everything is made with CNC machines today, even those cloned knives from China, that's how they can copy them so closely. Of course Ruger has it's own CNC machines with people doing exactly that, churning out cylinders.

DSC06177.JPG


Here's a CNC machine at Ruger churning out 10/22 receivers

RAZOR%20receiver%20being%20milled%206.JPG
 
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We shouldn't confuse perceived complexity with cost. Just because product A in market A has more parts to it and looks more difficult for you and me to make doesn't mean it actually is.

Also, while we all understand that rarity does not necessarily translate to value, it certainly can under the right circumstances.

Last year I had a blue Skyline I put on the bay. I paid $40 for it brand new from a retailer. I knew they were sought after and produced in a small quantity. Mine was in great shape so I expected maybe double what I paid. Well thanks to 2 bidders it went for just over $220. Knocked my socks off but goes to show you what people are willing to do/pay. Blue Skylines seem to be going for a lot less now...but all you need are 2 people duking it out for a big surprise.

As far as the 0888 and whether or not they made a profit, I'm not sure. I agree w/ many of you though. Excite the workers...show off their ability...keep diehard fans interested...many reasons I'm sure.

I'm sure retailers will sell them regardless. Even if a place like Knifeworks only makes $20 on a $500 knife they're still getting attention drawn to their site which is invaluable.
 
I don't care what any company makes off anything I don't have to own, in order to survive. I wouldn't pay 1000 dollars and up for a knife that retails for around the 500 dollar mark though, I snapped up a 0777 for a dealer price though, would have paid the same for an 0888, too. They are worth that to me easy.
 
Right Jill, I think we value money in a similar way. However there are those willing to pay out the wazoo because of some combination of A) they have money to blow B ) they don't mind consumer debt C) they want it badly. I think C) is a requirement, A) or B ) is probably the question lol.
 
fetzer85 said:
Right Jill, I think we value money in a similar way. However there are those willing to pay out the wazoo because of some combination of A) they have money to blow B ) they don't mind consumer debt C) they want it badly. I think C) is a requirement, A) or B ) is probably the question lol.
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And I can't help but feel I got a much better buy on my Ruger SP101, than the Sebenza at 55 dollars more and a mere handful of parts to make up the knife. That's just my view though and if people have a different one that's their right.
 
jill jackson said:
And I can't help but feel I got a much better buy on my Ruger SP101, than the Sebenza at 55 dollars more and a mere handful of parts to make up the knife. That's just my view though and if people have a different one that's their right.
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Yeah, but you can't chop up a hot tater with that Ruger, or slice and dice a carrot:D.
 
I understand. I own a Sebenza but it's my only CRK. I really like it but I'm unsure if it's 'worth it' to me. I admire the craftsmanship, the little details and tolerances, etc. However just the other day I bought an Ontario Utilitac 2 for about $23 brand new. Was my Sebenza worth 20x more? The answer varies from person to person since the worth varies as well. I'm undecided.
 
I'd rather have a knife at gun prices than a gun at knife prices.

Getting back on topic, the final value of the 888 is determined by the market, and as such, the price varies over time. Worth is determined by each individual person; there's no right or wrong answer.
 
mr_badexample said:
That's not too bad. I bought one at msrp along with a PMR30. Had to buy both was the catch. I only wanted the PMR. Shot the KSG once and just didn't get it. Not for me. I sold it for a $100 more than I paid and everyone was happy. The PMR is outta this world.

As for your knife. I'd venture to guess your willingness to pay premiums for these guns and knives influences your belief that they're worth more than msrp. I understand, been there myself. The problem is it's always a gamble. If the market has stabilized for that model you may have missed the window.
I also think the poster talking about the absence of the KAI forum my be right. At least here on bladeforums. The KAI talk has declined significantly since the forum closed up. Find out where those guys went and you might get your number. Or that big auction site. Good luck.
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I rarely pay a premium on a knife because I'm buying them here at discounted prices. I bought the 0888 for 500.00, I can still make money on that all day.

As for guns, I have often paid a premium. The reason is, the supply has been so low and the demand so high. I have a SCAR-H, SCAR-L, KSG. Oh and I have my carry gun, a 1911 TRP, which I didn't pay any premium for. Also, those are only four guns, but they are all my grail guns, each serving a different purpose. It has taken a while to find them all.

Is the PMR30 reliable? I have heard of, and seen malfunction after malfunction. Did they change something, or did you get lucky with yours?
 
eodtoad said:
Is the PMR30 reliable? I have heard of, and seen malfunction after malfunction. Did they change something, or did you get lucky with yours?
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Mine is fine. I have about 1k rounds with maybe a stovepipe or two. I got it after the intial issues were worked out. It is very easy to shoot and accurate too. It does spit a lot of fire. And that's just fine with me. :cool:
 
jill jackson said:
And I can't help but feel I got a much better buy on my Ruger SP101, than the Sebenza at 55 dollars more and a mere handful of parts to make up the knife. That's just my view though and if people have a different one that's their right.
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Yeah, and and I would rather have a car than a watch made by JLC or a shotgun made by H&H. So what...
 
mr_badexample said:
Mine is fine. I have about 1k rounds with maybe a stovepipe or two. I got it after the intial issues were worked out. It is very easy to shoot and accurate too. It does spit a lot of fire. And that's just fine with me. :cool:
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Glad to hear it! I was awe struck when I first saw that gun; 30+1 rounds of .22mag. Do you have a red dot sight on top, or light/laser on the bottom?
I bet it does spit a lot of fire. Good for you!
 
eodtoad said:
Glad to hear it! I was awe struck when I first saw that gun; 30+1 rounds of .22mag. Do you have a red dot sight on top, or light/laser on the bottom?
I bet it does spit a lot of fire. Good for you!
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No it has fantastic fiber optic sights standard. I'm not much of a laser guy and don't scope my pistols. At least until my eyesight starts to decline. A red dot might be worth a try just for fun.
 
jill jackson said:
I don't care what any company makes off anything I don't have to own, in order to survive. I wouldn't pay 1000 dollars and up for a knife that retails for around the 500 dollar mark though, I snapped up a 0777 for a dealer price though, would have paid the same for an 0888, too. They are worth that to me easy.
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I think its important for companies like ZT make some money either directly or indirectly from products like the 0600, 0777, 0888 etc. Otherwise we may not see the likes of them again. It would be shortsighted for a knife enthusuast to think otherwise imo. Especially if you like or own any of the above mentioned knives.
 
I hope any company with employees to pay and other bills makes a decent profit off everything they produce. I would also think they would have the good business sense to adjust the prices they charge accordingly.
 
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