What I wish I’d known about knives when I first started buying them.

[FA Tre]

"What I wish I’d known about knives when I first started buying them."

For me, that would be the following:

- I need an alox SAK, one large quality modern folder, a medium stockman, and three good kitchen knives. Nothing more.
- Learning how to sharpen and having the right tools for the job is more important than everything else I have learned about knives.
- Avoid knife forums once I have learned the first two things, to save myself tons of money.

Word!

 

[The cow]

I generally tell new knife knuts not to concern themselves with steel too much. Its the most confusing aspect of a knife and most do not use their knives enough to see where the steel shines. My general rule of thumb is stainless for EDC, non-stainless for outdoors. I tell them that super steels are a pain to freehand sharpen.

For outdoor/camping/hunting I tell them to buy a couple different cheap knives or rattle off a couple brands that have resale value. Generally, I point to Condor and Mora. They can get cheap "copies" to some popular knives. They can inexpensively see f or themselves if they like scandi grinds/FFG/Saber etc If they prefer the woodlore, puukko, or drop point knives. In the end, they still have a decent backup knife.

I tell them their first high end purchases should be from companies with bomb proof warranties like ESEE. I had no problems using my Junglas (first "high end" knife purchase) because I knew the company would fix anything that should happen to it.

The thing I wish I knew is how important blade geometry and ergonomics are. The first couple years, I acquired a bunch of knives that couldn't cut worth a darn or felt like crap in my hands after a couple minutes using it. The US market is flooded with knives that have fat geometry and skinny handles.

 

[Pomsbz]

Can you back up your invective? There are several statements in what you quoted. What is false?

- most users agree CPM154 is superior to 440A.

- if you sharpen knives of different steels to the same geometry, you're not going to see much difference in cutting performance.

- why should you pay more to get the same cutting performance.

Personally, I think there are nuances to all the statements, and see what the OP was getting at, even if I would have stated them differently. Your insult, on the other hand, I don't see any real point to. If you have a disagreement, why not state what it is and your argument? Why just drive-by? It's rude.

Because the jump from 'two knives with different steel sharpened to equal geometry will cut the same' to 'therefore there is no point in paying more' is ridiculous in the extreme. With better steel the blade will carry on cutting as well for far longer than the cheap steel. As such it is well worth the added value. This has been conveniently ignored or even suppressed to pursue an agenda and to reach a conclusion which does not meet the known facts. In fact it is such a momentous jump in logic that I could use the same logic to suggest that we carry glass knives sharpened to the same 20 degrees as they would be substantially cheaper and cut just as well. I do not think that conclusions of this kind should be allowed to be propagated without being pulled up on, when targeted at new knife users who may not have the experience to know better. Conclusions such as the ones of this statement are exactly what he is railing about as the point of his post. Misinformation presented as fact to trip up the new user. Of which he is just as guilty.

 

[Wowbagger]

Wow !

At least now I'm no longer that guy that makes the longest posts.
You took my title decisively.
I'm a has been.

All that said.

What I wish I had known when I started getting into pocket knives and ooogling and "collecting" them (for me that started some where around four, five or six years old; or how ever old I was when I could sit on the bench seat of my Dad's company truck (1960's F150 with the big steel steam fitter's tool box in the back with wrenches as long as I was tall); he rolled a truck like that off the side of Monarch Pass at night pulling a welding machine on black ice in a snow storm coming home for Christmas and walked away with only a scratch on his back from that big tool box as it came loose and tore through the cab of the truck. Upside down, gas leaking into the cab . . . he kicked out the side window and scrambled back up to the road to hitch hike to call the highway patrol . . . sighted for leaving the scene of an accident ((at night, in a snow storm, while in shock, with no coat on)) but finally made it home alive for Christmas !

But that's another story . . .

. . . where was I ?) Oh yah . . . trying to sit on the big bench seat of the truck and go to town with Dad like a big guy . . .

Baby seat ? What's that ? Seat belt ? That truck or (the one that rolled down the mountain) . . . never had one.
Any way once I could sit on the seat and go to town with Dad I remember looking at pocket knives. Here is one of my first scores . . . BIG TIME (the other one is his).

Haha . . . good thing it is very dry here, high plains desert in Colorado, this thing is ALL carbon steel and I used it for fishing trips including night fishing.

So what do I wish I knew then (and for some time after) :
1. How to make chocolate cake.
2. How to sharpen. Took a looooooooong time.

My advice to noobies and little kids learning : Don't waste time with a fine stone at first; learn to get an edge off a coarse stone and go light at the last few strokes.

Oh and learn to make chocolate cake. I wish I had known how to make chocolate cake back then . . . it's easier to learn than sharpening and you are going to need the sustenance to get through the tedium of learning to sharpen.

 

[T.K.C.]

I wouldn't change my knife progression for anything, as it has taught to really appreciate really good quality knives & a deep appreciation for custom knives.

 

[Dangerously]

Because the jump from 'two knives with different steel sharpened to equal geometry will cut the same' to 'therefore there is no point in paying more' is ridiculous in the extreme. With better steel the blade will carry on cutting as well for far longer than the cheap steel. As such it is well worth the added value. This has been conveniently ignored or even suppressed to pursue an agenda and to reach a conclusion which does not meet the known facts. In fact it is such a momentous jump in logic that I could use the same logic to suggest that we carry glass knives sharpened to the same 20 degrees as they would be substantially cheaper and cut just as well. I do not think that conclusions of this kind should be allowed to be propagated without being pulled up on, when targeted at new knife users who may not have the experience to know better. Conclusions such as the ones of this statement are exactly what he is railing about as the point of his post. Misinformation presented as fact to trip up the new user. Of which he is just as guilty.

Thanks for explaining. But you seem to be adding in your own content. His conclusion wasn't "therefore there is no point in paying more." You cut out his actual conclusion. Here is the quoted conclusion he came to:

The higher-end steel can take a thinner edge, and you only gain the benefit of that steel if you sharpen it accordingly.

Your rejoinder appears to be that you can also get a benefit from the better steel through better edge retention at the same angle. And I agree. I would add you can also get a benefit from the better steel through better edge stability, or toughness, or corrosion resistance, etc. You left those other reasons out, but I don't presume you're trying to mislead new people by not giving them all the information. I just don't get the attitude.

 

[Gaston444]

I generally tell new knife knuts not to concern themselves with steel too much. Its the most confusing aspect of a knife and most do not use their knives enough to see where the steel shines. My general rule of thumb is stainless for EDC, non-stainless for outdoors. I tell them that super steels are a pain to freehand sharpen..

Stainless for EDC, non-stainless for outdoor: Obviously most manufacturers agree with you, but for the life of me I cannot make any head or tails as to why...

EDCs are used often and in urban environment, where they are kept mostly dry unless cutting food, and even then... This it seems to me is as good a place as any to enjoy the easy daily re-sharpening that is a Carbon steel's only advantage...

Outdoor knives are used more rarely, in potentially rainy or humid environments, away from any comfortable place to do any re-sharpening (not with any good lighting to do a good job especially), so the edge better last all the way through the trip...

It seems to me that it should be the other way around... In fact I think stainless should always win, but I concede Carbon sharpens easier.

As to the breakage issue for stainless, it seems to me Carbon steels are not any stronger unless you get into really low Carbon steels like 5160. In fact, from the anecdotal evidence I have seen, 1095 versions, in whatever form (and Cold Steel's equivalent on the Recon Scout), break so often and so easily I would go out of my way to avoid that particular steel...

The US market is flooded with knives that have fat geometry and skinny handles.

That is very true for fixed blades, the skinny handle (and fat edge when it is the convexed SMIII) applying well to the Cold Steel Trailmaster especially...

Gaston

 

[trevitrace]

Stainless for EDC, non-stainless for outdoor: Obviously most manufacturers agree with you, but for the life of me I cannot make any head or tails as to why...

EDCs are used often and in urban environment, where they are kept mostly dry unless cutting food, and even then... This it seems to me is as good a place as any to enjoy the easy daily re-sharpening that is a Carbon steel's only advantage...

Outdoor knives are used more rarely, in potentially rainy or humid environments, away from any comfortable place to do any re-sharpening (not with any good lighting to do a good job especially), so the edge better last all the way through the trip...

It seems to me that it should be the other way around... In fact I think stainless should always win, but I concede Carbon sharpens easier.

As to the breakage issue for stainless, it seems to me Carbon steels are not any stronger unless you get into really low Carbon steels like 5160. In fact, from the anecdotal evidence I have seen, 1095 versions, in whatever form (and Cold Steel's equivalent on the Recon Scout), break so often and so easily I would go out of my way to avoid that particular steel...




That is very true for fixed blades, the skinny handle (and fat edge when it is the convexed SMIII) applying well to the Cold Steel Trailmaster especially...

Gaston

Carbon steel's only advantage is that it's easily re-sharpened?

Gaston, you crack me up.