What is the ULTIMATE super steel?

[shane45-1911]

The problem cited is that D2 is more susceptible to fluctuations in the heat treatment

Perhaps we need one of our resident makers to chime in with their comments.

I do not believe this to be true in the least. The implication is that D2 is somehow more unstable than other steels - specifically AUS 8 - when exposed to heat? I think not.

 

[justjed]

Do you really think it is as simple as that? No consideration for blade thickness/width/length???

Or type of grind, if any, bar-stock or round, Rockwell hardness or lack thereof, direction of force relative to which plane, temperature, etc.....

 

[nattynarwhal]

Perhaps we need one of our resident makers to chime in with their comments.

I do not believe this to be true in the least. The implication is that D2 is somehow more unstable than other steels - specifically AUS 8 - when exposed to heat? I think not.

I think D2 gets a lot of unjustified hate due to the large volume of Chinese D2 on the market. Now it's possible that the Chinese D2 floating around the market today is much better, but I had one of those cheap folders in D2 years ago and the steel was awfully brittle, chipped easy and was irritating to sharpen.

However, heat treat again is the key here because I've used Spyderco's PSF27 (which is a version of D2) and it performed just as well as any s30v I've ever used. I can't imagine that a reputable maker would put out low quality D2.

 

[Bob Denman]

.....how exactly does a "super steel" act in a given set of circumstances ?

.....how exactly does a "super steel" act in a given set of circumstances ?

superbly!

 

[justjed]

One of the most sought-after knifemakers in S. Africa in the '70s, Peter Bauchop was another early adopter of D2. His knives were prized by the Rhodesian Light Infantry, Selous Scouts, and any number of privateers in the bush wars for their toughness, sharpness, and overall excellent performance. I have a sterile Witch, I'd not think twice about this one going into my bug-out bag!

 

[tony281sc2]

I think D2 gets a lot of unjustified hate due to the large volume of Chinese D2 on the market. Now it's possible that the Chinese D2 floating around the market today is much better, but I had one of those cheap folders in D2 years ago and the steel was awfully brittle, chipped easy and was irritating to sharpen.

However, heat treat again is the key here because I've used Spyderco's PSF27 (which is a version of D2) and it performed just as well as any s30v I've ever used. I can't imagine that a reputable maker would put out low quality D2.

Yup. I would have complete confidence in D2 done by Medford or KAI. And even tho I don’t own any CPM-D2 I have heard that the edge retention is comparable to S30V.

 

[The Grendels]

Perhaps we need one of our resident makers to chime in with their comments.

I do not believe this to be true in the least. The implication is that D2 is somehow more unstable than other steels - specifically AUS 8 - when exposed to heat? I think not.

Again, this is specifically to do with mass production knives, where you have hundreds of them being put into the oven at the same time, and not lower production and custom knives. That is the instance where Outpost 76 states that they are more susceptible to fluctuations in the process, and not with low production and custom knives. That is why he suggests that D2 might not be a great choice for mass production budget knives and it goes a long way to answering some of the questions about the wide range of execution in knife making with D2 in mass production models.

I'd personally love to hear the opinions of some people with some oven experience and a grasp of material science. I'm not 100% sold on it either (probably why I used the wording I did), but engineering and material science aren't belief based and Outpost 76 did extensive testing with multiple knives of the same model (in one case one Rat1 was great, the others not so much). I can believe whatever I want, but if it doesn't stand up to empirical testing it doesn't matter very much. If belief based engineering was a thing, engineers wouldn't wear iron rings because bridges would never fall down.

 

[scdub]

I abused this knife pretty heavily at work for several years, both on a shipping dock and on construction sites. I used it as a prybar, a chisel, and I literally hammered on it with a mallet cutting through thick rope and wire. I also cut countless amounts of plastic with it, from twine to rope to heavy-duty packing straps, and with little need to re-sharpen. And as you can see, it survived, and with no chips to the edge or noticeable damage.

Oh, I forgot to mention, it's D2 .

I wouldn't call D2 a "super steel", nor would I presume to say that it's the greatest steel on earth, but it served me well enough.

Killgar - I love the look of this knife. I might have already asked you this in another post but who made it/what model is it? Awesome that you got to use it at work so much!

 

[nattynarwhal]

Yup. I would have complete confidence in D2 done by Medford or KAI. And even tho I don’t own any CPM-D2 I have heard that the edge retention is comparable to S30V.

Larrin's magnacut article quantitatively measures this by testing CATRA blades on silica impregnated cardboard. He also accounts for results at various heat treats. If you give it a read, you'll see that at ~61.5 HRC, D2 makes 500 cuts into the cardboard, comparable to 4v and cru-wear (525), SG2 (520) and s35vn (510). S30V does a little bit better at around 560 cuts. That's only a 15% difference though.

Cheap manufacturers giving the steel a shitty heat treat doesn't mean the steel itself is bad. It's got many positives such as affordability, semi stainlessness and a relative ease of sharpening (since it only has chromium carbides, compared to some of the PM steels overloaded with vanadium and niobium carbides). If I brought up any of the aforementioned steels, people would be praising them, but D2 has just gotten itself an undeserved reputation.

 

[killgar]

Killgar - I love the look of this knife. I might have already asked you this in another post but who made it/what model is it? Awesome that you got to use it at work so much!

It's a Wilson Tactical model 25. Semi-custom, made to order. But they've been discontinued for many years.

It was a little pricey for me at $300, but I bought it as a heavy-duty user (almost 1/4" thick blade), and so I put it to work.

 

[scdub]

It's a Wilson Tactical model 25. Semi-custom, made to order. But they've been discontinued for many years.

It was a little pricey for me at $300, but I bought it as a heavy-duty user (almost 1/4" thick blade), and so I put it to work.

Thanks - yes you did tell me that before. Will make a note this time so I don’t forget and once this thread has determined the ULTIMATE super steel lol I might try to have something made by them.

Edit - oh - is that what’s now Wilson Combat? Looks like they only make folders now. Probably won’t be taking any custom orders then…

 

[MolokaiRider]

I was actually reading up your post on your website about the steel you developed, 'Magnacut.' It is impressive, and definitely deserving of some consideration for what a noob like me would consider a 'top steel.'

Question: if we can coat knives in a TiCN coating, or a DLC coating, have you considered developing a steel that has great hardness and blade retention at the cost of being prone to corrosion? Is there even a way? (Please pardon my ignorance if the question is farfetched)

Take a look at K390 and ZDP-189.

 

[tony281sc2]

Larrin's magnacut article quantitatively measures this by testing CATRA blades on silica impregnated cardboard. He also accounts for results at various heat treats. If you give it a read, you'll see that at ~61.5 HRC, D2 makes 500 cuts into the cardboard, comparable to 4v and cru-wear (525), SG2 (520) and s35vn (510). S30V does a little bit better at around 560 cuts. That's only a 15% is difference though.

Cheap manufacturers giving the steel a shitty heat treat doesn't mean the steel itself is bad. It's got many positives such as affordability, semi stainlessness and a relative ease of sharpening (since it only has chromium carbides, compared to some of the PM steels overloaded with vanadium and niobium carbides). If I brought up any of the aforementioned steels, people would be praising them, but D2 has just gotten itself an undeserved reputation.

That’s pretty amazing that D2 made almost as many cuts as the s35vn. When heat treated the right way of course.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

In D2 regard, every one of my Rat1 knives was very consistent in performance. Looking at Stassa’s video and the comments, I’m happy to note the good performance of the Taiwanese made Rat1 in D2.
Im also glad to see that he finds the Manly slip joint to have a well Heat Treated steel, having the same knife, my impression after I’m using it for a while, is the same.
‘Still, even he is trying to have some standardization, I’m looking at his videos mostly like a reference material, not as solid proof of something, also in this particular one, I disagree with his conclusion, looking at the numbers in the comments, it’s obvious that D2 is better steel than most of the low end steels tested. And if a regular guy won’t make much difference between D2 and 13Mov when cutting boxes or pilling off apples, I can tell it right away after I pill off few wires or cut few window seals…

 

[justjed]

ZDP-189 is a good steel for smaller blades, in my opinion. Not easy to sharpen, but not horrible. Holds a razor edge for a reasonable amount of time, depending on usage, but the 'working sharp' edge can be phenomenal. My EDC folder for 8 years was a Kershaw Shallot with the composite ZDP-189 blade. I don't mind a little color to a blade, and I don't find ZDP-189 to be overly susceptible to oxidation compared to many other steels. I've colored 440A, 440C, and ATS-34, and the Rostfrei blades on my SAK have a blue tint in the right light, just from regular use, so a few spots on the Shallot are simple character, working scars.

 

[Mecha]

I mean the absolute best, irrefutable, strongest, hardest, best steel money can buy? A steel without compromise of any sort. What is that specialty 'super' steel?

The problem with this question is that by virtue of asking it, one reveals that he almost certainly won't understand the answer.

In on 9. Rosta-Frei double-smatchet.

 

[Danke42]

Or that "Bear Grylls Ultimate whatever knife"?

Bear's a tiny little guy. No way one of his knives would pass that test.

 

[justjed]

I am waiting on the Jedi Light-Smatchet, personally. Steel? HAH!!!!!

 

[Bob Denman]

I am waiting on the Jedi Light-Smatchet, personally. Steel? HAH!!!!!

That reminds me: whatever happened to "Machete In Space"?

 

[justjed]

'Ground Control, to Major Tom, your circuit's dead, there's something wrong!
Can you hear me, Major Tom? Can you hear me, Major Tom........'