What is the ULTIMATE super steel?

[Hashishiin]

Lol. Surely you jest.

The worst D2 with marginal heat treat trumps the best AUS 8 any day. ALL day. EVERY day.

I just replied to a guy about a similar thing, I am very new to this hobby and have become a more "useful" person in the past year or so, more work oriented, more task-oriented, more of a mans-man. I try to use my knives as much as possible, and because I started out budget, and still do love a lot of budget, not cheap, knives, like the RAT series or classic carbon folders like Opinel, Mercator, Higonokami and Douk-Douk, as well as Mora, I realized early you didn't need a supersteel to have a great edge. I still have not had enough experience cutting in general, as I have not sharpened yet and have just a week ago bought a strop and am looking at stones now, anyways...

One of the early favorite knives of mine was the RAT2 in AUS-8 (You cannot buy D2 from Ontario's site for some reason). I was using this whenever I needed, which granted, is not a ton, but it seemed to service a lot of my needs. It cut wood just fine, cut lemon branches and the uneven top of a Christmas tree. I was really liking it. I got a RAT1 and RAT2 in D2 steel recently as I love the knife and wanted to try another one out, hoping that Ontario has good quality D2. Have not used it yet, just got the D2 a few days ago, but am excited to. It seems you know the differences between the two steels... I was honestly expecting not to notice. So, you say AUS-8 and D2 are pretty far off from each other, right? Will I notice the distinction while working with the knives through time (edge retention, etc) or only when sharpening?

 

[Bob Denman]

That would explain this -

Will it snap under my weight?

This knife, is a very nice knife. It's made from CPM S35VN steel. From my research, this steel is a well rounded steel, that doesn't particularly fail in any one area. That said, it doesn't excel in any one area either.. But that's okay. If I was sliding down a hill, or an embankment of some...

bladeforums.com

Are you referring to the Tactical Swedish Chef Knife......?

Or that "Bear Grylls Ultimate whatever knife"?

 

[shane45-1911]

Will I notice the distinction while working with the knives through time (edge retention, etc) or only when sharpening?

There are way too many variable to give "one" answer.

In general, D2 will have significantly better edge retention, all things being equal (ie, same edge geometry, same number of cuts and force applied to those cuts, same HRC/heat treatment). It is hard to compare apples to oranges.

The easiest way to say it would be.......take two exact same knives with the exact same specs, except one is AUS 8 and one is D2. D2 will win. Always.

I think you will be pleased with Ontario's D2, and suspect you will notice a difference in edge retention vs. the AUS 8 version. Bob said it best a few posts ago, that D2 makes AUS 8 look like soft butter.

 

[Bob Denman]

Find yourself a couple of OKC Rats: they came in both flavors

 

[shane45-1911]

Find yourself a couple of OKC Rats: they came in both flavors

Good example, although it is 1095 vs D2 in the case of my RAT 4's. The D2 runs circles around the other, performance-wise.

Yes, the D2 takes marginally longer to re-sharpen, but holds its edge by orders-of-magnitude above the other making it a worthwhile tradeoff.

(And for the record, I love 1095. It is a time-tested jack-of-all-trades steel that works well. But even the modest 1095 kicks the living shyte out of AUS 8.)

 

[Richard338]

Whatever steel they use in the smatchet, is the best steel.

I used 3V for mine, but I doubt they used anything special for the originals.
I just made 5 straight razors out of W2 at 64-65 HRC, probably no better steel for that.

 

[waveone]

Only if it’s Chinese.

Gotta be tongue-in- cheek….

Is there such a thing as Chinese D2? Asking fir a friend because there is no such thing as the absolute best metal. Too many variables for use

 

[RousingRabbles]

This is one of those questions that would be relegated to a perma-thread labeled “FAQs for knife newbie’s” if we had one. It has been asked countless times, and many of us here have likely mulled over the same idea in search for the illusive “ultimate knife.” For better or worse, though we all have our preferences, and new “super steels” enter the market consistently, the answers for this question remain more or less the same.

1. As others have pointed out, there are trade offs with every steel, and the answer of which is best can change depending on intended use, ability to sharpen, blade geometry, etc

2. Heat treat is arguably one of the most important factors when comparing the attributes of a steel, if not the most important. A poorly heat treated magnacut, 3v or m390 will be outclassed in every way by a well heat treated D2 or 420HC. So even if you think you have the answer for yourself, your mileage can very significantly from maker to maker.

3. Try different blades, experiment, find the attributes you value in a good knife, and you’ll find the steels your more drawn to. My personal favorites lately have been Elmax, and S35VN for folders or smaller fixed blades, and good quality 3v in my larger fixed blades.

4. Another attribute to any good knife is the warranty to back it up. If a company doesn’t offer a strong warranty for their blades then there’s a good chance they don’t have enough confidence in their own work to stand behind it. Esee does amazing things with 1095, Carothers makes a bomb proof delta 3v, and Buck has one of the best produced 420HCs you’ll ever find. They all back it with an excellent warranty. And most other reputable makers will do they same.

 

[gazz98]

CTS-XHP. Did I win?

 

[Hashishiin]

Find yourself a couple of OKC Rats: they came in both flavors

That is exactly what I did, haha, had the AUS-8 RAT2 and then got a D2 RAT1 and RAT2. Same knives, same company, I'll get to see the distinctions. Honestly partly got it for an R2D2 themed scale-painting I'm gonna do, because I got the bone-white scales on the AUS-8 version and I have the perfect R2D2 design, but it would be a lie if it wasn't D2, so got a black D2 blade on Coyote Tan scales to swap it out with the white ones on the AUS8.

 

[killgar]

I abused this knife pretty heavily at work for several years, both on a shipping dock and on construction sites. I used it as a prybar, a chisel, and I literally hammered on it with a mallet cutting through thick rope and wire. I also cut countless amounts of plastic with it, from twine to rope to heavy-duty packing straps, and with little need to re-sharpen. And as you can see, it survived, and with no chips to the edge or noticeable damage.

Oh, I forgot to mention, it's D2 .

I wouldn't call D2 a "super steel", nor would I presume to say that it's the greatest steel on earth, but it served me well enough.

 

[tony281sc2]

CTS-XHP. Did I win?

I don’t have any knives in that steel but I’ve heard great things about. It’s not around much, I think Spartan uses it in a couple knives but that’s all I know of.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

I am very disappointed of the paint they put on Rat 2 blade, it pills off just by looking at it in a wrong way…
Hope they fixed this issue. I disassembled my knife to clean it and it is still in the bag, never bother to put it back together.
‘I personally find Zancudo to be much better equivalent of R2

 

[The Grendels]

Lol. Surely you jest.

The worst D2 with marginal heat treat trumps the best AUS 8 any day. ALL day. EVERY day.

(I can't believe I just used the words "best" and "AUS 8" in the same sentence.)


And what is your source for this statement? Please point me to the relative example where "mass production ovens" produce "small fluctuations"?

I am really getting tired of the recent influx of "experts" on this forum making outlandish statements as if they were fact.

I used to wonder what was responsible for the wide variety of results of D2 steel in knives, but this guy doing actual testing seems to have answered some questions on the subject.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

I don’t have any knives in that steel but I’ve heard great things about. It’s not around much, I think Spartan uses it in a couple knives but that’s all I know of.

Cold steel used to make the L Voyager in this steel and it was OK.
I can compare it roughly to S30V as usage, from what I tried but I will prefer S30V if I have a choice.
‘It also depends of the HT of the particular company… My Manix LX in S30V would hold slightly longer edge than my CS Voyager L in CTS-XHP, but this is subjective to what the user is doing with its knife…

 

[Bob Denman]

So how much difference do you think a Bos heat treatment could make on D2?
How about S110V, or 20CV?

 

[sharpknives23]

Adamantium. Duh.

The fact Wolverine liked your post has made my entire week. Thank you.

 

[shane45-1911]

but this guy doing actual testing seems to have answered some questions on the subject.

I was afraid you were going to reference that video as your source. Unfortunately, his statements carry no more weight than anyone who reviews knives on the Tube. He is not a metallurgy expert, nor is he a bladesmith.

I could make my own videos (if I was so inclined) that show just how good my D2 blades are - even when compared with some of my premium-steel knives as I mentioned in my previous post.

The bottom line is, that everything is a variable. D2 can differ substantially from manufacturer to manufacturer, all dependent upon the quality of the base metal, the heat treating process, the edge geometry of the finished blade, etc.

A good quality D2 blade will still outperform an AUS 8 blade. And while I am neither a metallurgist or knife maker, I have 40 years under my belt using every type of steel imaginable, from dozens (hundreds?) of makers and manufacturers, for every task imaginable. And there is no way that AUS 8 compares D2, let alone surpasses it.

 

[justjed]

I'm not worried about bomb-proof. If there's a bomb close enough to damage my knife, it ain't gonna do me a whole helluva lotta good either! So, there's that.

Ultimate super-steel? To quote a funny movie, "It's a bullshit question! It's impossible to answer." (from 'My Cousin Vinnie')

Spoiler Alert!!! The ultimate steel hasn't been invented yet. But, if ya just want the toughest steel that will still hold an edge, differentially heat treated 5160 is yer target. If it can stand bouncing around dirt roads in the Himalayas under a Mercedes truck for 240,000 miles, then being made into a Kukri, never a knife to be underestimated in the hands of a skilled user, it's probably tough enough for whatever you think you can throw at it. I like W2 and L6, personally.


Mostly, tho, I kinda want to know what you think YOU are going to do with a knife that is going to push it past the limits of both physics and sanity, such that it requires your posting so many ridiculously redundant outlandish postulations in such a short amount of time, relatively speaking....................

 

[sharpknives23]

If only someone had thought to ask this question before.

I was actually reading up your post on your website about the steel you developed, 'Magnacut.' It is impressive, and definitely deserving of some consideration for what a noob like me would consider a 'top steel.'

Question: if we can coat knives in a TiCN coating, or a DLC coating, have you considered developing a steel that has great hardness and blade retention at the cost of being prone to corrosion? Is there even a way? (Please pardon my ignorance if the question is farfetched)