What is this part 2

[GunnersFan]

Ok. I think I understand better how you are thinking about the purchase.

But suppose that our hypothetical Mr. Smith defends himself as follows: “Look, I understand that Store 1 is also involved in some stuff I don’t approve of. But only Store 1 sells Satsuma mandarin oranges, and that’s the thing I want. Everyone wants me to go to Store 2, but they don’t sell Satsumas. So I think it’s OK for me to buy my Satsumas from Store 1.”

If Smith were to offer this to me as a way to say he’s totally in the clear ethically, I personally wouldn’t be convinced.

It looks like you’re offering the same justification above.

 

[JayDeep]

This rationale will lead to doing business with human traffickers because all you’re buying is a ham sandwich, and damn, it’s good for the price.

When you hear the stories from folks like Sal Glesser at Spyderco how clones almost ruined them, you realize how tenuous our homegrown, original knife market is.

You may intend to buy an original model, but your silver goes into the same coffer that funds clones and counterfeits. You can’t purchase in a void.

I’ll be the first to agree the King Kong knife looks intriguing, but I bet the smart folks here can find alternatives of known origin that might scratch the knife itch.

Have you looked at Three Rivers Manufacturing? Tactile Knife Co? The Hogue Ritter? There are so many better choices that you can pursue that won’t hurt the health of the industry in general.

Oh, and XRF guns are only approximate. To accurately determine alloy distribution, it requires destructive testing. LTK assumes too much from a method that the scientific community considers pass/fail at best. The guns are used to validate items of known composition, not to quantify unknown materials.

I hope you’ll consider the broader impact of your spending.

First thank you, perhaps again, for actually participating and approaching this without accusations and attacks.

Second, the YouTuber I watch first did the destructive testing that left those divot holes in the metal, but got tired of doing that to his knives he kept so he changed, but it is accurate enough to get a solid gage that is truly close to M390 vs 5Cr...

I will now go check out those knives you recommend. Thanks for that.

And trust me when I say, I understand how deep the potential of doing business with these kinds of folks could lead. But in the end, as far as I'm concerned, that's the what of and could've/should've game and yes, I am 100% selfish here and admit that and... I'm fine with it. I'm not going to blame a consumer of products for the evil the manufacturers do. I wouldn't do that to you nor will I do it to myself. Like i said, my lives are very clear and extremely well thought out and considered. As always others are welcome to disagree, but the accusations and attacks are complete horse manure.

 

[JayDeep]

Ok. I think I understand better how you are thinking about the purchase.

But suppose that our hypothetical Mr. Smith defends himself as follows: “Look, I understand that Store 1 is also involved in some stuff I don’t approve of. But only Store 1 sells Satsuma mandarin oranges, and that’s the thing I want. Everyone wants me to go to Store 2, but they don’t sell Satsumas. So I think it’s OK for me to buy my Satsumas from Store 1.”

If Smith were to offer this to me as a way to say he’s totally in the clear ethically, I personally wouldn’t be convinced.

It looks like you’re offering the same justification above.

Again my line is clear it's with the law entirely. If it's not illegal to do, I'm not going to play the what if games. You can play the games all you want. You can assume that money directly funds something else in not going to. I don't play that game. I pay my money for what I want. If that money goes to something else that is immoral or illegal that's on the person using the money for it not me. That's not open to interpretation, it's fact. Now if you could show me that my exact dollars, even a penny will absolutely cause harm to a child or any other immoral or illegal thing, I would heavily weight that decision and likely not do it, depending on the specific law it breaks. But you cannot. Nobody can. People choose to do with their money what they will.

You can buy a "legit" USA made knife and later we find that this guy is part of a pedo ring. Are you to blame? No the pedo is. Sorry but you guys are taking cray leaps on assumption that I'm not willing to let you put on my shoulders. End of story.

 

[GunnersFan]

But I don’t think anyone was suggesting that what you are doing is illegal. What I think many people so far were speaking about is the ethical dimension of purchases like the one you’re considering. What’s legal doesn’t settle questions about what’s ethical.

 

[JayDeep]

But I don’t think anyone was suggesting that what you are doing is illegal. What I think many people so far were speaking about is the ethical dimension of purchases like the one you’re considering. What’s legal doesn’t settle questions about what’s ethical.

But it does. Ethics can go all over the place but that's literally what laws are developed for, ethical reasons.

 

[Hackenslash]

Three Rivers Manufacturering makes the Neutron, The Atom, The Nerd and another one I can’t remember. They are small batch and entirely made in Massachusetts. You can’t buy one off the shelf, but the waiting list is moving briskly.

Tactile Knife Company are my neighbors here in Dallas. They made a name for pens but have entered the knife world with The Rockwall, The Bexar and a fixed blade. The one that might interest you most is their largest folder, The Maverick, releasing in early 2023.

I mentioned the Hogue Ritter because it’s a better version of the Griptillian you mentioned having struggles with. It comes in a large and small version and sales support Doug Ritter of Knife Rights. KR has worked tirelessly to protect the rights of knife users across our nation.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There ARE better choices you can make and we’ll both keep watching that King Kong knife. I have a feeling some designer will cry foul soon.

 

[JayDeep]

Three Rivers Manufacturering makes the Neutron, The Atom, The Nerd and another one I can’t remember. They are small batch and entirely made in Massachusetts. You can’t buy one off the shelf, but the waiting list is moving briskly.

Tactile Knife Company are my neighbors here in Dallas. They made a name for pens but have entered the knife world with The Rockwall, The Bexar and a fixed blade. The one that might interest you most is their largest folder, The Maverick, releasing in early 2023.

I mentioned the Hogue Ritter because it’s a better version of the Griptillian you mentioned having struggles with. It comes in a large and small version and sales support Doug Ritter of Knife Rights. KR has worked tirelessly to protect the rights of knife users across our nation.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. There ARE better choices you can make and we’ll both keep watching that King Kong knife. I have a feeling some designer will cry foul soon.

Thanks, that's why I'm holding off on these purchases. Appreciate you being willing to actually discuss this without attack and put aside the feelings I'm sure you're having about me.

 

[GunnersFan]

Ah! I think we’ve found the crux of the problem. Legal facts absolutely do not settle ethical questions. Here’s a simple demonstration: it was once legal to own slaves, but very clearly unethical to do so. It was illegal to assist escaping slaves, but clearly ethical to do so. QED.

 

[TC]

It might come from a dealer or production company that also deals in counterfeits, but that's not going to stop me from getting what I want.

Your impeccable taste in beers notwithstanding, THAT is something most here will not countenance. Your decision, but not smart to advertise here.

Edit: Reading through the thread I see this has been stated by many others. Just accept it as a community standard. Whether you want people to interact with you in a positive way down the line or not is entirely up to you, but you now know what the general sentiment is. It transcends what is merely legal or logical in your view. Say that's irrational, but hey, it is what it is....

 

[Corton93]

I’m tellin‘ you, these threads are addicting!

Right.. my alarm clock goes off in 4 hours yet I'm still here strolling...

And to the OP, it might be an original design or it might not be, idk. You said you just care about what's in your pocket, so just buy the knife already. Seems like your 90% of the way to having your mind made up anyways..

Just in case, I guess I'll play it safe and buy me a new Busse or CPK to help try to offset any potential economic damage that your purchase may cause .

To me, this seems to be a good example of the difference between people who just like knives. ( JayDeep ),.. and the people who actually love the hobby as a whole (most everybody else here on BF)..

 

[ADBrown]

It's clear from the first paragraph of the OP that he intended this to be an antagonistic, trolling thread. He must have a deep-seated need for attention - even if it's negative. And he got what he wanted, at least enough to feed his ego and martyr complex until his need for recognition arises in yet another disingenuous request for assistance. Enough time wasted; the horse is dead...

 

[JayDeep]

Right.. my alarm clock goes off in 4 hours yet I'm still here strolling...

And to the OP, it might be an original design or it might not be, idk. You said you just care about what's in your pocket, so just buy the knife already. Seems like your 90% of the way to having your mind made up anyways..

Just in case, I guess I'll play it safe and buy me a new Busse or CPK to help try to offset any potential economic damage that your purchase may cause .

To me, this seems to be a good example of the difference between people who just like knives. ( JayDeep ),.. and the people who actually love the hobby as a whole (most everybody else here on BF)..

That's all a completely fair assessment of the situation. I'm just not as into it as you all. This is not even close to a primary hobby of mine so the investment isn't there. This could explain some of the disconnect, as I was trying to say earlier. Pretty sure I did say just that in fact

 

[JayDeep]

For you all... https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/we-were-all-new-here-once.1010696/

 

[rizza32]

This is not even remotely interesting

 

[JayDeep]

It's clear from the first paragraph of the OP that he intended this to be an antagonistic, trolling thread. He must have a deep-seated need for attention - even if it's negative. And he got what he wanted, at least enough to feed his ego and martyr complex until his need for recognition arises in yet another disingenuous request for assistance. Enough time wasted; the horse is dead...

What a horrible excuse for an assessment.

I intended this to be a question but poking fun at those who only want to attack as per my previous post.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Well you're definitely mischaracterizing what has transpired here and what my original post was asking for. But either way, I'm all good. No harm no foul on my end.

How so? The knife in question is sold by a site that sells a ton of fakes. By your own admission you said the knives are all made by the same Chinese manufacturer.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your interpretation of my characterizing.

Let me try again.

The knife you posted is from a known site that sells fakes. That knife is not listed for sale at any other vendor.

It is reasonable to deduct the knife is made by the same factory that's pumping out fakes. The unique design is a moot point.

So why would you trust a company that lies and steals designs, to sell you a product that they claim it to be. Here is an snip of what they post on their own listing under the Infinite brand:


Well golly that sure inspires confidence.

I don't know if it's an original design. You may not even get the same knife you tried to buy.

 

[Jdottinger]

Goodness, I’ve refrained from commenting for awhile but here we go. I’m saying this with all due respect. Just buy the knives you like, you shouldn’t need anyone’s validation.

With that being said. The knives you've discussed are from well known cloners. I understand you’re not purchasing a clone but by giving the cloner money you’re just helping them make more clones. If you google the company in question the results that show up(for me at least) are mostly direct counterfeits.

With the analogies/comparisons going around, I’ll toss one out. In a way I see you saying “He might be a murderer, but he’s never killed anyone I love, so he’s a good guy in my book” extreme maybe but you’re totally looking past the blatant cloning by said companies to bicker with strangers.

I looked at all 5 of the pics of knives you own. You seem to like Medford and Spyderco. The owners of both companies are vocal about how counterfeiters hurt their business but hey you already said you’re only worried about yours, so you do you playa. Virtue signal away big dog, I’m enjoying this goat rope.

 

[JayDeep]

Goodness, I’ve refrained from commenting for awhile but here we go. I’m saying this with all due respect. Just buy the knives you like, you shouldn’t need anyone’s validation.

With that being said. The knives you've discussed are from well known cloners. I understand you’re not purchasing a clone but by giving the cloner money you’re just helping them make more clones. If you google the company in question the results that show up(for me at least) are mostly direct counterfeits.

With the analogies/comparisons going around, I’ll toss one out. In a way I see you saying “He might be a murderer, but he’s never killed anyone I love, so he’s a good guy in my book” extreme maybe but you’re totally looking past the blatant cloning by said companies to bicker with strangers.

I looked at all 5 of the pics of knives you own. You seem to like Medford and Spyderco. The owners of both companies are vocal about how counterfeiters hurt their business but hey you already said you’re only worried about yours, so you do you playa. Virtue signal away big dog, I’m enjoying this goat rope.

Hey again another horribly inaccurate analogy. No surprise at this point. If you read through the rest you'll see my corrections to all the parroted trash assessments. I'm done wasting my time with you people.

 

[JayDeep]

How so? The knife in question is sold by a site that sells a ton of fakes. By your own admission you said the knives are all made by the same Chinese manufacturer.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your interpretation of my characterizing.

Let me try again.

The knife you posted is from a known site that sells fakes. That knife is not listed for sale at any other vendor.

It is reasonable to deduct the knife is made by the same factory that's pumping out fakes. The unique design is a moot point.

So why would you trust a company that lies and steals designs, to sell you a product that they claim it to be. Here is an snip of what they post on their own listing under the Infinite brand:
View attachment 2020669

Well golly that sure inspires confidence.

I don't know if it's an original design. You may not even get the same knife you tried to buy.

I'll follow some sound advise at this point.
Never waste your time arguing with someone who is intent on misunderstanding you.

 

[Jdottinger]

Hey again another horribly inaccurate analogy. No surprise at this point. If you read through the rest you'll see my corrections to all the parroted trash assessments. I'm done wasting my time with you people.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.