What is with A.G. Russel?

Some makers are real jerks…..some knife collectors are real jerks….some knife dealers are real jerks….a LOT of people are real jerks.

Sometimes A.G. Russell can be gruff….he is not young, and has pretty much earned the right in my book, suffering fools gladly and all…..BUT NO ONE to my knowledge in the 20+ years of knife collecting that I have under my belt has called A.G. a jerk and made it stick.

McClung on the other hand…..just bad news across the board. Cougar, Parker and Severed Thumbs are doing NOTHING here but dragging up a bad past, nominally connected for reasons unknown….and NONE of that has anything to do with the original topic, which was a relatively uneducated knife buyer positing that A.G.’s prices were out of line.

Consigning knives is another service that A.G. offers. Yes, he makes a profit off of doing it, but it is still a service, and one that not all dealers offer.

Severed, to you specifically, gunning for A.G. Russell is not a wise decision if you have a long term interest in good standing in the knife community, which based upon your posts for much of this year is questionable.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
severedthumbs said:
Please stop trying to sidetrack this issue. A legitimate concern has been brought to light here. We are awaiting the email correspondence between the "doctor" and Kevin. So please refrain from posting your garbage.
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How is this related to the original topic?

AG is selling a consignment as it was presented to him. Anyone who is interested in buying can determine the authenticity and then decide if they want to buy it (which it obviously hasn't yet sold even at 1/3rd the purchase price).

So this makes for a better question to AG Russell in relation to the original topic of this thread - does your Guarantee apply to this knife as well?

http://www.agrussell.com/Guarantee/a/86/

(I am certain I already know the answer, but to keep this topic on track with the issue on hand, it should be asked)
 
Say Cougar, it is interesting how you persist in mistreating AG Russell (in my opinion), a man that is about as reputable as we will find in the knife business. I haven't sat across the table from AG and looked into his eyes/soul, but I trust him after doing business with the man many times.

You Mr. Couger, on the other hand, I don't trust at all. You bring your bias into threads like your every thought should be carried down the mountain by Moses on chiseled tablets. You personally must be satisfied and frankly I have not found you all that open-minded. Why not move on already and find another thread/topic to dominate.

Interesting that you chose to pester AG while sticking up for a guy like Mike Stewart. Says a lot about how well you judge character.
 
Say Cougar, it is interesting how you persist in mistreating AG Russell (in my opinion), a man that is about as reputable as we will find in the knife business. I haven't sat across the table from AG and looked into his eyes/soul, but I trust him after doing business with the man many times.

You Mr. Couger, on the other hand, I don't trust at all. You bring your bias into threads like your every thought should be carried down the mountain by Moses on chiseled tablets. You personally must be satisfied and frankly I have not found you all that open-minded. Why not move on already and find another thread/topic to dominate.

Interesting that you chose to pester AG while sticking up for a guy like Mike Stewart. Says a lot about how well you judge character.
Click to expand...

+1! That bears repeating.
 
Deadhead Archer said:
How is this related to the original topic?

AG is selling a consignment as it was presented to him. Anyone who is interested in buying can determine the authenticity and then decide if they want to buy it (which it obviously hasn't yet sold even at 1/3rd the purchase price).

So this makes for a better question to AG Russell in relation to the original topic of this thread - does your Guarantee apply to this knife as well?

http://www.agrussell.com/Guarantee/a/86/

(I am certain I already know the answer, but to keep this topic on track with the issue on hand, it should be asked)
Click to expand...

No, the cutting edge guarantee is two weeks and return in same condition.
 
whitie said:
Say Cougar, it is interesting how you persist in mistreating AG Russell (in my opinion), a man that is about as reputable as we will find in the knife business. I haven't sat across the table from AG and looked into his eyes/soul, but I trust him after doing business with the man many times.

You Mr. Couger, on the other hand, I don't trust at all. You bring your bias into threads like your every thought should be carried down the mountain by Moses on chiseled tablets. You personally must be satisfied and frankly I have not found you all that open-minded. Why not move on already and find another thread/topic to dominate.

Interesting that you chose to pester AG while sticking up for a guy like Mike Stewart. Says a lot about how well you judge character.
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i didn't read his posts that way. cougar can certainly be opinionated, but i don't think his intent here is to mistreat or badger agr in any way.

parker's post introduced the topic, and cougar has been able offer info on the knife in question and its possible origins.

his saying mclung "is quite a fellow", at least to me, read as a not so subtle question in to mclung's character.
 
whitie said:
Say Cougar, it is interesting how you persist in mistreating AG Russell (in my opinion), a man that is about as reputable as we will find in the knife business. I haven't sat across the table from AG and looked into his eyes/soul, but I trust him after doing business with the man many times.

You Mr. Couger, on the other hand, I don't trust at all. You bring your bias into threads like your every thought should be carried down the mountain by Moses on chiseled tablets. You personally must be satisfied and frankly I have not found you all that open-minded. Why not move on already and find another thread/topic to dominate.

Interesting that you chose to pester AG while sticking up for a guy like Mike Stewart. Says a lot about how well you judge character.
Click to expand...

Whitie, I didn't think Cougar was mistreating me, just trying to protect McClung, not the same thinjg - BUT, I really want to thank you for speaking for me, it means a lot.
 
Here is the emails, the customers and McClungs. I cannot duplicate my phone conversations with McClung, they were not helpful. The Doctor has given his permission.

From: mdlabs@hughes.net
Subject: Re: ATAK#001 (not)
Date: May 4, 2007 11:07:07 PM CDT
To: GGTMD@aol.com
Cc: agr@agr3.com
Sir,

Thank you for your entertaining email.

I am sorry to inform you that I have no memory of speaking to you, or an order from you. Nothing personal, but I speak to several thousand people a year, I have delivered many hundreds of knives just in the last decade, and you are just not ringing any bells.

Not having been availed of the opportunity to inspect the knife personally, I can not verify it being my own work. There are at least two counterfeiters of my work extant so far as I know at present. One has been doing so, albeit sporadically, since the early 1990's.
Should AG Russell wish to send it to me for inspection and documentation, he is welcome to do so. I have already described the terms and conditions to him.

The knife in question is not the ATAK design.
I did not mark it as such.
I never marked it as an ATAK, simply because it isn't an ATAK, and it certainly isn't the first ATAK. The only design changes in the ATAK were mandated by the U.S. Navy. None of these changes included eight inch blades, turquoise composite grips, metal guards....
Pretty simple, really.
There's actually more available discrediting information provided by a cursory examination of the photos, but I'll keep that to myself for now.

Incredulously yours,
Mad Dog






----- Original Message -----
From: GGTMD@aol.com
To: mdlabs@hughes.net
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: ATAK#001

Mr. McClung;

I am the owner of the ATAK#001 knife listed on the Cuttingedge web site. My name is Gregory Theodore, and I live in Odessa, TX. I ordered this knife directly from you, I talked to you on the phone!
This knife was ordered in the early 1990's. I talked with you about it. It was a new model and was based on, I believe, the Navy Seals requirements. You let me have the turquoise grips and said all the other knives will have the black grips. The knife was delayed because you had incurred a delay in the blade coating.
When the knife was eventually shipped, the blade was unmarked. I talked with you about this and shipped it back to you to be marked.
Check your records! My order and this knife will be there! I am 100% sure and will take a POLYGRAPH if necessary. I am a physician not some scam artist but am beginning to wonder if you might be. I no longer collect knives but was quite a collector back then and never bought a knife except from the maker! I find it hard to believe you have forgotten completely about this knife. I don't know what your motives might be but THIS IS YOUR KNIFE.
 
So, forgive my ignorance, but I have a question. Although, it appears that Mad Dog made it perfectly clear in his email that this was not one of his knives; what if it were one of his knives? What would make it worth $10,000? Or, even a third of that?
 
A. G. Russell said:
Here is the emails, the customers and McClungs. I cannot duplicate my phone conversations with McClung, they were not helpful. The Doctor has given his permission.

From: mdlabs@hughes.net
Subject: Re: ATAK#001 (not)
Date: May 4, 2007 11:07:07 PM CDT
To: GGTMD@aol.com
Cc: agr@agr3.com
Sir,

Thank you for your entertaining email.

I am sorry to inform you that I have no memory of speaking to you, or an order from you. Nothing personal, but I speak to several thousand people a year, I have delivered many hundreds of knives just in the last decade, and you are just not ringing any bells.

Not having been availed of the opportunity to inspect the knife personally, I can not verify it being my own work. There are at least two counterfeiters of my work extant so far as I know at present. One has been doing so, albeit sporadically, since the early 1990's.
Should AG Russell wish to send it to me for inspection and documentation, he is welcome to do so. I have already described the terms and conditions to him.

The knife in question is not the ATAK design.
I did not mark it as such.
I never marked it as an ATAK, simply because it isn't an ATAK, and it certainly isn't the first ATAK. The only design changes in the ATAK were mandated by the U.S. Navy. None of these changes included eight inch blades, turquoise composite grips, metal guards....
Pretty simple, really.
There's actually more available discrediting information provided by a cursory examination of the photos, but I'll keep that to myself for now.

Incredulously yours,
Mad Dog






----- Original Message -----
From: GGTMD@aol.com
To: mdlabs@hughes.net
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: ATAK#001

Mr. McClung;

I am the owner of the ATAK#001 knife listed on the Cuttingedge web site. My name is Gregory Theodore, and I live in Odessa, TX. I ordered this knife directly from you, I talked to you on the phone!
This knife was ordered in the early 1990's. I talked with you about it. It was a new model and was based on, I believe, the Navy Seals requirements. You let me have the turquoise grips and said all the other knives will have the black grips. The knife was delayed because you had incurred a delay in the blade coating.
When the knife was eventually shipped, the blade was unmarked. I talked with you about this and shipped it back to you to be marked.
Check your records! My order and this knife will be there! I am 100% sure and will take a POLYGRAPH if necessary. I am a physician not some scam artist but am beginning to wonder if you might be. I no longer collect knives but was quite a collector back then and never bought a knife except from the maker! I find it hard to believe you have forgotten completely about this knife. I don't know what your motives might be but THIS IS YOUR KNIFE.
Click to expand...


Well, that answers any doubt whatsoever for me!!

BUT again, why/how does this have any relationship the the original question; why are AG's knives more expensive, sometimes by 20%? Next we will move to AG's choice of underwear; is it fruit of the loom or an imposter pair from baforkistan?

And severedBRAIN, what does a car auction have to do with this? If you are not trolling, you have cast the line and started the motor. Go catch a fish as you certainly cannot catch AG Russell, your tackles is not big enough!!!:p
 
Danbo said:
So, forgive my ignorance, but I have a question. Although, it appears that Mad Dog made it perfectly clear in his email that this was not one of his knives; what if it were one of his knives? What would make it worth $10,000? Or, even a third of that?
Click to expand...

The fact that he, or whoever in his shop mis-marked it and sold someone else a knife marked ATAK #1. I do not determine what the prices are, the buyers do.

By lying about it being his knife he is taking money out of his customers pocket.

It is a choice of taking the word of McClung or his customer who has also been my customer for many years and who has been an outstanding customer, I chose to say that McClung has a spotty reputation and this Doctor does not.

Some people will lie to cover their behind and some will not.
 
This thread has been brutally hijacked.

A. G. is providing a service for his customer. He prefers to believe the customer over Kevin McClung.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
This thread has been brutally hijacked.

A. G. is providing a service for his customer. He prefers to believe the customer over Kevin McClung.
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Come on, Keith...the thread is over 18 pages long, and mostly an outpouring of support for A.G.....the OP got fairly schooled, and the usual practitioners of asshattery are working on the next level of such.

It is another day in ethernet land, in other words.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
A. G. Russell said:
A Good customer of 30 years sent me the knife, I chose to take his word rather than McClung's If the knife remains unsold I will send it to you Couger or anyone you trust. I have compared it to others and will warrent it to any buyer except for the word of McClung who I do not trust.

Is that clear enough?
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Mr. Russell, you choose the word of the knifeowner who is offering you what you have been informed is a fraud and a bad forgery, versus the guy who got the sole-source contract from DOD and OWNS the ATAK design, hmm. You know, the contract to make the ATAK for the Navy.

You have been publicly informed of your error, yet you continue to offer an obvious fraud. Why? Really, why?

I have OWNED several ATAKs and if you were in fact interested, you could do a little research on your own and find ATAK specs easily - seven-inch blade at currently, earlier iterations were a hair shorter, black handle, etc. First gen issue had kalguard on the blade, and the only similarity other than the steel is the filework. If it was the genesis of the series, dontcha think it would have other design similarities?

You're out of order, Sir. And full of yourself here. I don't care who you trust. You could maybe ask a number of gents who were ISSUED ATAKs or instead have bought them thru dealers. Or you can continue this charade.

You don't need to send it to ANYONE to make me happy - the information is easily accessible. But c'mon Mr. Russell, the simplest look into an ATAK will reveal a blade 7 inches versus 9 inches. EDIT - sorry, I had read the blade as 9 inches. It is apparently 8 inches. Still ain't no ATAK and sure ain't ATAK #001.

I don't care about the pricing issue myself - it's the internet age, anyone can do what they like and you've got an organization to support versus a fulfillment company and a card table. That's fine and I respect that.

Cougar, it's my fault I mis-spelled McClung - Kevin will forgive me I'm sure. I can apologize to him when I call him about other matters in the morning. Thank you for pointing out my typo here for me. I always appreciate your clarity in these matters.

Keith, you and I have a long mutual respect. The outpouring notwithstanding, this is a pretty hard question, and the answer is hardly satisfactory. It's not even a matter of trusting the doctor, it's a matter of obvious nonsense.

I would think that Mr. Russell's answer above will indicate he has been informed and chooses to ignore first-hand and arguably the most credible information available on this knife. I'd like to know what the stake is, other than the obvious gain to be had. I'd like to think that this is not the reason, so what, then?

EDIT - I actually thought about buying this. It is a neat piece. A lot of Paleo MDK are neat pieces. But the circumstances around it - I'm good to spend $2500 on a knife. But not on an unknown. And this has a lot of unknown.

For the record, I will offer the same as Mr. Russell - if I am wrong, I will PUBLICLY and in Many Places post an apology to him as well as to the good Doctor.

And I will CALL Mr. Russell to offer my apology in voice if he'll have it.
 
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whitie said:
Say Cougar, it is interesting how you persist in mistreating AG Russell (in my opinion), a man that is about as reputable as we will find in the knife business. I haven't sat across the table from AG and looked into his eyes/soul, but I trust him after doing business with the man many times.

You Mr. Couger, on the other hand, I don't trust at all. You bring your bias into threads like your every thought should be carried down the mountain by Moses on chiseled tablets. You personally must be satisfied and frankly I have not found you all that open-minded. Why not move on already and find another thread/topic to dominate.

Interesting that you chose to pester AG while sticking up for a guy like Mike Stewart. Says a lot about how well you judge character.
Click to expand...

Well, that is one of the more bizarre posts I have seen on TGB&U. I pester A.G.??? I stick up for Mike Stewart?????????
 
Parker, I completely understand where you are coming from. I think the owner of the knife should take it back, because it has become a point of contention. However, it's up to A. G. what knives he will take in on consignment.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Whitie, I didn't think Cougar was mistreating me, just trying to protect McClung, not the same thinjg - BUT, I really want to thank you for speaking for me, it means a lot.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not trying to protect McClung. I think truth is worth something in itself, no matter who happens to end up protected by it, even if the truth turns out to protect someone who isn't very well liked, but in this case discovering the truth seems more likely to preserve others from damage here -- especially you. I'm sure nobody wants you to be thought a purveyor of forgeries.

I'm sure we can all appreciate why you value the testimony of your customer more than that of McClung, but it's not so clear that there is any real conflict between the two stories -- and even more important than that, this isn't a simple case of one person's word against another. We have evidence: a knife. Anybody who's at all familiar with McClung's work and Scott Fowler / Allan Blade's work can look at that knife and judge for himself who made it, without any need to refer to anything anyone has said about it. The knife speaks for itself.
 
Cougar Allen said:
I stick up for Mike Stewart?????????
Click to expand...

Wait -- I know what Whitie is referring to. He once accused Mike Stewart of selling knives that are unusually prone to rust -- possibly the only accusation ever that Stewart wasn't guilty of. It is true I didn't think much of that accusation and I said so at the time. I don't see that as sticking up for Mike Stewart, though, merely as sticking up for the truth.

If you accuse Adolph Hitler of something he didn't do I'll refute that, too, and then you can claim I stick up for Adolph Hitler. :rolleyes:
 
Cougar, I understand what you just wrote but how does one explain away the Doctor's contention that he spoke with Mclung, is the guy lying?
 
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