what is wrong with guys today?

B

BLADECARVER

Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
172
guys and i imagine gals alike i see all the time spending ridiculous amounts of cash on production knives. 2 and 3 times more than they could own a custom knife for. and i mean production knives made overseas as well. ebay seems to be a huge breeding ground for hook and reel phrases like, rare, discontinued, hard to find, scarce,the last one, ect please do not get me wrong there are a few older production knives that may be worth adding to the collection. but after holding a true custom knife in your hand makes all those so called rare production knives seem less desireable. i am sure i will get some flak for this post. although i mean no disrespect to the collectors out there.
 
You'll get no flack from me, Ebay sellers push junk like it's the hottest thing on the planet and idiots believe the lies!
Nothing you can do about it!
That's why you'll seldom if ever see a good knife maker selling his work on Ebay. If you're making a quality knife and not asking a ridiculous price, the knife will sell itself in time. You just have to build a customer base and get a good reputation.
 
The mid tech knives are what kill me...Don't stamp your blade as hand made if all you did was attach the handles on your foreign made blade!!!!
 
BLADECARVER said:
guys and i imagine gals alike i see all the time spending ridiculous amounts of cash on production knives. 2 and 3 times more than they could own a custom knife for...
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Good question. For my part, I've owned low end productions, high end productions/mid techs, and customs. I've had far more high end productions than any other, primarily because of knife-to-knife consistent quality. I know that when I get a WH, Klotzli or CRK knife, it will be perfect. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for customs. I know there are lots of good reasons for buying custom knives and lots of really talented custom makers, but even the really good custom makers let one slip through occasionally. It seems like statistically this happens far less with high end production knives. OK, flame away...:D

- Mark
 
Mark J said:
Good question. For my part, I've owned low end productions, high end productions/mid techs, and customs. I've had far more high end productions than any other, primarily because of knife-to-knife consistent quality. I know that when I get a WH, Klotzli or CRK knife, it will be perfect. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for customs. I know there are lots of good reasons for buying custom knives and lots of really talented custom makers, but even the really good custom makers let one slip through occasionally. It seems like statistically this happens far less with high end production knives. OK, flame away...:D

- Mark
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Mark,
keep in mind that when a cnc mill, wire edm, lazer cutter...etc dies, the knives that those machines made aren't worth anymore $$$
the program get loaded into another machine & keeps making the same knives.
When a top end custom knife maker dies, the price of his knives skyrocket.
I guess if financial gain is not an issue, machine made knives will be more consistant (which is good, if you loose your knife, you can get another one exactly like it)
 
How about spending all weekend explaining to guys that have $2000 scopes on their rifles why a $150 custom knife is better than their $20 wallyworld/flea market knife? :(
 
Mark J said:
Good question. For my part, I've owned low end productions, high end productions/mid techs, and customs. I've had far more high end productions than any other, primarily because of knife-to-knife consistent quality. I know that when I get a WH, Klotzli or CRK knife, it will be perfect. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for customs. I know there are lots of good reasons for buying custom knives and lots of really talented custom makers, but even the really good custom makers let one slip through occasionally. It seems like statistically this happens far less with high end production knives. OK, flame away...:D

- Mark
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If I print a photograph from a digital image it will always be realistic and a perfect representation of whatever it is an image of. If I commission an artist to paint that same scene, it might have some tiny flaws in realism. Would i rather have a picture on my wall that a machine spit out or a handpainted work of art? Thats an easy answer.

When a machine spits out a geometrically perfect knife, it might be perfect, but its value has nothing to do with craftsmenship. It also will be like a billion other carbon copies of it. Try approaching buck and asking them if you can modify their design, add a choil, swap the blade for damascus, add mosaic pins and a handrubbed satin finish and see what their response is....
 
Its like this. My knives are an hand crafted piece of functional art. You can buy a functional cutting device that is exactly like the 1000s of others a machine made "perfectly". That was heat treated perfectly with a 1000 others in a vacuum oven. If you pay enough to the right company you will even get consistent solid quality and most will stand behind their product. If you buy from a custom maker and pay a fair price you will get the stand behind quality. The heat treat will have been more individual, details a machine can not replicate may be included, Every bit and piece will have been inspected, materials can be chose to meet your wants and need, and you should end up with a functional piece of art that you can pass to you children and they to theirs. Genuine hand CRAFTMENSHIP will never ever go out of style.
 
The other thing is this.... you can talk to a custom maker... ever had a conversation with a CNC machine?

There's a guy named (think he's dead now, if not he's like 200 years old) named Cece Carlucci. Former minor league umpire that makes hand made umpiring gear. There's 28 measurements needed to fit the chest protector alone. You can buy a $200 West Vest (at least that's how much mine cost) or a $300 Carlucci. Cece will talk for hours on the phone while talking you through the measurements about the guys he's worked with, the calls he's made, the players he loved and hated and loved to hate. It's not just a chest protector it's a labor of love from someone that appreciates and loves the process and the end result.

Most of us make knives because we love making knives. If people didn't buy them we'd still make them. If people didn't buy a Brand X Ninja Death Monkey of Doom folder, well they'd quit making them. When my customers email or call me we talk about the weather, family, hunting or whatever; the knife is a byproduct of our relationship.
 
Guess I'm in a minority here, but I say value is a personal decision and isn't necessarily reflected in the amount of work, dedication, love, magic or whatever else you put into a knife. If people want to pay high-dollar for production knives, that's fine by me. If makers want to charge the upper limit of what the market will bear, that's fine by me also. Let people buy what they want and pay what they're willing to pay for it.

All of these mid-tech and cheapo import knives going for high-dollar just make it easier for the market to bear our prices. Bask in the glory and take the markup to the bank.
 
BLADECARVER said:
guys and i imagine gals alike i see all the time spending ridiculous amounts of cash on production knives. 2 and 3 times more than they could own a custom knife for. and i mean production knives made overseas as well. ebay seems to be a huge breeding ground for hook and reel phrases like, rare, discontinued, hard to find, scarce,the last one, ect please do not get me wrong there are a few older production knives that may be worth adding to the collection. but after holding a true custom knife in your hand makes all those so called rare production knives seem less desireable. i am sure i will get some flak for this post. although i mean no disrespect to the collectors out there.
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I haven't purchased a knife in years. You, Sir are 100% correct though, about the way a custom knife feels. :thumbup:

I am NO master (But I'm learning :) ). If there is a blade out there that I like, or features there of, I go to my shop and build it.

I don't know.....Maybe I'm just cheap. :rolleyes:

Jim L.
 
David Schott said:
If I print a photograph from a digital image it will always be realistic and a perfect representation of whatever it is an image of. If I commission an artist to paint that same scene, it might have some tiny flaws in realism. Would i rather have a picture on my wall that a machine spit out or a handpainted work of art? Thats an easy answer.

(read with thick Italian accent)
"Leonardo,...She'sa very pretty. Can you do fiva more for mya wallet, eh?"


Jim L.
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I don't think the argument is over value. I think the argument is over "why should I pay for a custom knife when ones spit out of a CNC machine will all be identical and nearly perfect?" The answer is that those knives are spit out by a machine. One could program a robot to paint exact replicas down to the brushstroke of van gogh paintings, but I doubt anyone would be silly enough to say those machine-spit-out paintings are of equal value to the originals, even though they might be more consistent and "perfect" than van gogh could have created by hand if he were to replicate his own works.

I think the work that goes into a knife certainly has to do with its value. Thats why people pay more for handcrafted baskets than machine made, why handmade clothes are more, and why a handmade custom built bike is worth far more than the retail value of its components. A byproduct is that custom knifes are, for the most part, superior in performance, fit and finish to production knives that get little to no QC.

If you disagree, thats perfectly fine and you can keep buying production knives and no custom maker will be mad. I dont even consider production knives to be anyting I am in competition with at all, as its a completely different situation. Without production knives, custom knives wouldn't rise and shine quite as much.
 
David Schott said:
I don't think the argument is over value. I think the argument is over "why should I pay for a custom knife when ones spit out of a CNC machine will all be identical and nearly perfect?" The answer is that those knives are spit out by a machine. One could program a robot to paint exact replicas down to the brushstroke of van gogh paintings, but I doubt anyone would be silly enough to say those machine-spit-out paintings are of equal value to the originals, even though they might be more consistent and "perfect" than van gogh could have created by hand if he were to replicate his own works.

I think the work that goes into a knife certainly has to do with its value. Thats why people pay more for handcrafted baskets than machine made, why handmade clothes are more, and why a handmade custom built bike is worth far more than the retail value of its components. A byproduct is that custom knifes are, for the most part, superior in performance, fit and finish to production knives that get little to no QC.

If you disagree, thats perfectly fine and you can keep buying production knives and no custom maker will be mad. I dont even consider production knives to be anyting I am in competition with at all, as its a completely different situation. Without production knives, custom knives wouldn't rise and shine quite as much.
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good post david.....i buy a custom for all the reasons makers like making them......i like talking to the maker on the phone....not only about knives but using them and about life in general....no one has ever rushed me off the phone or been unwilling to talk to me......i like the fact that you makers put everything you got into a knife an i like using them......could i use a 20 machete to chop down the brush in my yard.....sure but i would like to use my tai goo bowie instead......it feels great in my hand and i love artisan made products......keep up the good work makers....i'll keep buyin!.....ryan
 
For what it's worth, I'm not trying to tell anyone their knives are worth less or more than factory knives. I understand the value (to me) of art and owning a piece from someone I admire. My point is only that it's subjective and to many folks there is no extra value in a $200 custom over a $150 Benchmade. They aren't our market, so it's no problem. They are raising prices across the buyers market, however, which is a good thing for custom makers imo.

Some well-off folks will buy a Mercedes and others will buy a Hyundai. To one person the car is a thing of beauty, to another it's a thing of function. You don't have to appreciate cars to need them or to use them.

I say why buy a high-dollar sports car when you can build one from the ground up for the same money. I'm guessing that the Corvettes and 350Z's wouldn't do so well if everyone agreed with me. It's all just personal preference.

Just another interesting side note about reproducing prints vs. hand painting. Rembrandts were done on copper plates, ones that still exist (and can be produced) today. Food for thought.
 
There are some custom made knives for short money that are really well made. There are others that are pretty shoddy. I've always thought that production folders offer a lot of value compared with custom folders. For fixed blades, I think you can find a talented custom maker who will make something special for a good price.
 
I totally agree with what some have just said...mainly that it benefits all makers when production companies start raising prices. The sooner the general knifebuyer realizes that he can spend 200$ on a machine spit-out knife or $200 on an equal quality but personally customized knife, the sooner makers will start receiving more orders.
 
I think a lot has to do with reputation, mass appeal, marketing and fear of the unknown. The knives that are selling well have a good reputation and word has gotten around about how good they are. The knives that have been sold are seen by others so they gain in popularity. I for one, thought knifemaking was a totally mysterious business and only machines could make a good knife and now that I've started making them I see that's not true,(well, not mine):D. I thought for some reason big manufacturers had materials that were unavailable to ordinary people and the machine made knives would be stronger, better..... Also, being able to see and feel something before buying it helps too. Availability helps, waiting a couple of months and even years is too long for some people. I think what it boils down to is , you gotta make something someone wants.
 
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