what is wrong with guys today?

I've never been arguing that Chinese knives are a better deal, I won't argue that. I'm saying that people will always buy cheap knives from wal-mart and wal-mart will never buy our knives because they are too expensive. I say live and let live and take advantage of the increased prices that the market is paying.

There's no guarantee that you'll get a great job by going to school and finishing a master's program (although, if you have a master's degree it is awfully hard to *not* get a job teaching), but what are you really trying to point out here? That your daughter would be better off if we were still a largely industrial system? She could go get a job in a cannery or at a chair manufacturer? Or maybe she'd have an easier time getting a job with her higher education because there would be less competition, since fewer folks would be driven to new labor markets.

I'm all for supporting local business and artists, I buy American whenever it fits my budget and my tastes, but I'm nog going to tell anyone else they need to do the same. Nor am I going to limit myself to goods that aren't worth the cost. If two things can do the job equally and one is half the cost, I'm going to buy the lower priced one unless there is some hidden value in the more expensive product. If I'm only going to use a hammer once, why would I buy a Vaughn instead of a HF special?

You value the Delbert Ealy knife with a Chuck Burrows sheath because it's of interest to you. You would like to have a nice piece that has an American heritage and can be passed on down to your children. The guy who wants a five dollar ninja star doesn't care about any of those things, he wants a five dollar ninja star and I don't expect Delbert and Chuck to accommodate him.
 
The distillation is that the current trend is producing a deeply divided stratification, the few at the top are getting rich on offshore labor, the bulk of America is losing their moderately well paying industrial based jobs to underpriced offshore labor and being forced to compete for a limited number of minimum wage service/retail jobs.
There are so many highly educated people out of work in Central New York that my masters degree just adds me to the list of too many people qualified for the few openings in education.
Everyone except Mr. CEO would be better off if we still had an industrial system. Joe Lunchbox could continue to work towards his retirement with enough money to continue to cover his mortgage, and perhaps add that patio his wife has been wanting, Bob Necktie would be supervising him while patiently waiting for that amazing Kevin Cashen Damascus knife he ordered a month ago, and planning a hunting trip to show it off on, Mike Sliderule would be engineering better versions of the part Joe Lunchbox is assembling for the upcoming tradeshow, and all of the secondary and tertiary supply and support industries would also benefit. That was Rochester 15 years ago when Kodak and Xerox employed locally, contracted locally, and bought locally. Everyone in Rochester benefitted in some way from the bustling technology/industrial complex.
Now Kodak and Xerox manufacture overseas, and Kodak Park is being demolished. Kodak's executives and stockholders are seeing increased profits from Chinese labor, the economic ripples in Rochester and surrounding communities are devastating.

-Page
 
Acrid, Hibben might make handmade knives, but handmade does not neccesarily mean custom. If its in Hibbens own designs wihtout any customer input, then its not a custom.

Will Gil Hibben make a knife that I designed or to my specifications?

Sometimes. It depends on the specific details. Gil has made knives in the past based on a customer's design and he has made modified versions of his own designs per a customers wishes. However, he may decline if he feels that he cannot, for whatever reason, produce what the customer is expecting and of the quality that Gil demands of himself. The best thing to do is to call or email us and discuss what you want.

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Well, he does make custom designs then. Just overlooked it, but that knife I saw in that catalog labeled as custom is not a custom. Its simply a hand made. I blame that on the catalog though, as their several mistakes in it, such as using the term blood grove instead of fuller, calling "Damascus" "true Damasascus" even though its really just pattern-wielded, etc. (Oh, and that catalog even claims that one of their swords is thick enough to split nails with ease, even though thickness has nothing to do with splitting anything, they wern't refering to the edge thickness either.) And even if it can split nails, which is unlikely, how hard would it have to be? Therefore, how brittle? Sounds like a bunch of hype that catalog using if you ask me.

And no matter how original a design is, chances are, sometime during the course of history, one similar to it was made.
 
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For me a custom knife does not mean the client must have any input, what-so-ever. I make custom knives, they are my own designs and they are what I like. If they're what you like too, then you're in luck, but I don't let other people dictate my knives. The knives are indeed custom made - maybe for a friend or family member, maybe for someone who wants a hunting knife, maybe for myself. Maybe it's custom made to be a good seller - whatever the case is, each one is had tailored and customized by me.

I think there are a lot of custom knife makers on this forum that would be a little upset if you were trying to tell them that their knives are "only" handmade. Just my opinion, but there are a lot of custom knife makers out there that only make their own designs, so I don't think I'm alone.

Page - you and I will have to agree to disagree as well. Just different perspectives and different worlds, all I can chalk it up to. Different approaches to the same problems and all that.

Andy - aren't you glad the meetings never get this deep? ;)
 
Their customs are only custom to them then.

When I refer to Custom, I'm referring to its actual meaning (made to personal order, can't argue against Webster by the way) and from what professional makers such as Jay Fisher says. (Read quote parts below or go to his site and read "modern knife technology")

Items being hand-made doesn't neccesarily make them custom. Items being unique doesn't neccesarily make them custom. Items being made in your own style and specifications only makes them custom for you.

" A custom knife by exact definition is a knife made to a customer's order.....While a knife may be handmade and custom, a knife that is not specifically ordered for a specific client may be handmade, but is not custom. ...non-custom maker simply makes and sells knives made by his own design"
 
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I would say, then, that one could more accurately use "custom-made" knife. According to Merriam-Webster :), that doesn't specify a customer, simply "individual specifications".
 
If you're going to try to narrow it down to such detail, then is the "custom" knife no longer custom when it hits the secondary market? After all, it was only custom to the original buyer. If it's custom made to any spec, then it's custom to me. You can keep arguing, but like I say, we might as well agree to disagree.
 
To your question, No nothing in the after market is truly custom. And yeah, your knives are custom for you. And this aint no argument, its a debate. :)


Anyway, now to try to get back on topic
 
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No matter who owns the knife, it was still custom made and thus retains its custom properties in my eyes. I'm going to let it rest here, this horse is dead and there isn't even anything left to beat.
 
Alright, good then, Now I can just read around the forums wihtout worrying about losing my way to this one.
 
15-20 years ago I heard Paul Harvey state on his show that the reason so many companies were going outside of american soil with their companies was because they spent more in court cost with their employees than paying said employees.

I have an Uncle who used to work for a popular clothing manufactorer. He was in charge of hiring and firing for the company at the plant he worked. He would hire people, then 1 out of 5 would be good workers, the other 4 just slackers. If he fired them, they sued. He finally got tired of it and switched careers.

We must realize that in many cases these companies are finding it easier to outsource to reduce cost on courts and lawsuits brought on by their own employees.

I would also venture to say the over half of the tools in each makers shop that has posted on this thread is either entirely made overseas or at least parts of them are.

I don't like what has happened to our industrial system, what little there is left, here in the U.S. But, I can't feel sorry for some people who cry about not having a job when if they had one would'nt work like they should.

I know many people who really only work long enough to be eligible to draw unemployment benefits. Then they slack off and just piddle around with the hopes of getting layed off so they can sit for several months and draw a check doing nothing. I worked with several and it just makes the hard working employee's job that much harder because then you not only have to do your job but your slacking coworker's as well.

Rant done.
 
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