What kind of folder do you really want?

One thing people are missing here is that AllenC edited his original post. He removed the last sentence from his post that said some thing to the effect that anyone who would buy a class C knife was either trying to impress people or they are shallow. I don't remember the exact words he used but I remember being offended by it. I think that started this fight. I was OK with his post until I got to that line. He must have removed it since it didn't fit with his later arguments in the fight.
 
FoldersForever said:
One thing people are missing here is that AllenC edited his original post. He removed the last sentence from his post that said some thing to the effect that anyone who would buy a class C knife was either trying to impress people or they are shallow. I don't remember the exact words he used but I remember being offended by it. I think that started this fight. I was OK with his post until I got to that line. He must have removed it since it didn't fit with his later arguments in the fight.
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According to my internets, the post was made at 7:43. Allen edited it 20 minutes later. His next post didn't come till 6 hours after that. Later arguments, indeed. And Hair's reply was 3 hours after the edit, so he didn't necessarily see that comment you didn't like.
 
Well, it seems AllenC is only a temp banning, 10 days, witch is a little better. I think Hair should get it too though. Well, really I don't think either one should have gotten it but that is just my opinion.
 
hardheart,

You are right. After looking at his original post closer, I think it is the last statement that is currently in his post that I found offensive. For some reason I had remembered it being a harsher when I first read it. Thanks for pointing out the timing of things. You have to admit though, the last paragraph of Allen's first post was a fight waiting to happen.
 
Hey. I really don´t participate much around here, but I do enjoy reading your posts. These forums are great, and the wealth of information that shows up here is astounding. My compliments to the site owners and admins.

This is a good thread. I think an A group folder is enough for my use. Certainly nothing from the C group, as much as I drool over their pictures sometimes. It is just that I think my hard earned cash would be better spent on the best fixed blade(s) I can get. I am not really a folder kind of man.

About the Hair vs. allenC argument, well, I don´t really get it. AllenC said that he disregarded the C category because he thought the price-to-performance ratio was dismal. Hair, out of the blue, decided this mild comment was directed at him, and replied that allenC´s remarks were ignorant. allenC stated his opinion again. Hair continued baiting allenC, calling his opinions ignorant time after time, and implying allenC lacked the refinement and savvy to pay extra $200 for a pivot bushing.

If Hair felt the need to justify the way he spends his money to strangers on a public forum, why didn´t he say he likes the Sebenza, he thinks they are cool and solid and he wants to have them? Who gives a damn anyway? Instead, Hair chose to speak of things like "transitions from grip to grip". Hair just had to make clear to everybody that there were objective, obviously rational reasons for him to spend $400 on a pocket knife. Apparently, he naively thinks people would see him as stupid otherwise. This is the part I don´t get. The way I see it, this only shows Hair´s insecurity. And besides all the limp-wristed justifications, when Hair finally got the answer he was asking for, he immediately runned to the moderators and reported allenC.

Like I said, I don´t really get it.
 
Yes, the wording was less than flattering to the group it was describing. Personally, I see nothing at all wrong with buying something for it's prestige. You don't buy a Breitling just so you can know what time it is, and I don't think you buy a Sebenza just to cut, either. There's an intangible that increases the user's enjoyment, but I would say it doesn't improve performance.

edit-this was for Foldersforever, Valle posted while I lollygagged :)
 
allenC said:
Some folks are just happy paying more for no performance gain.
Maybe it's for status or maybe they equate "more expensive" with "better" regardless of the facts.
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I am not sure if Allen has said anything else that is really offensive. But I believe that this is the part of Allen's comments that is more or less offensive to some people. This may easily imply that some people are shallow and thus get offended. On the other hand, it may not be really that offensive. People do purchase items for status gain instead of performance gain (say a diamond on the neck, which can cost millions of dollars, is nevertheless a stone). It is normal as status is a part of human society, good or bad.

Hair is active at BF and also very helpful to many others. I personally appreciate it. But I do not feel that Hair acted as a gentleman when Allen was trying to be diplomatic and back off from the argument. Instead of backing off reciprocally, Hair continued to agitate Allan which led to Allen's final blowing out. If Hair did report Allen to the moderator, I do not think that is a graceful action because fight is always on both sides and Hair did call Allen "ignorant" too.

That said, I personally do not think that either of them should be banned. A yellow card for both is enough.
 
I don't do much posting but I have to say that the moderators should really reconsider their actions. Neither AllenC nor Hair should be banned -warned maybe but not banned. If AllenC gets banned then Hair should also be banned. I have lost respect for the moderator for what I deem to be an unjust decision - it really comes off as being biased.

I fully support AllanC as he was only stating his opinion (and I happen to agree with him) - you can agree or disagree but there is no need to get personal about it. If you are easily offended by a differing opinion then you are going to have a tough time in life.

Moderators - I ask that you reevaluate your decision and "unban" AllenC. Thanks for your consideration.:confused:
 
hardheart said:
It's sad, he had been a member for over 6 years. I just did a trade with him, too. He wasn't satisfied, because he came out ahead in the deal. He contacted me to make a deal he felt was more equitable for me. He's a real gentleman when not dealing with pedantic posts from someone who hasn't quite yet hit their first account/knife collecting anniversary.
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I like AllenC........don't have much, if any, regard for Hair.

That said, if there were no Moderators, this would be wild, wild west, and the idea of being banned, would be just that, an idea.

A temporary banning, is just that, a cool off period. It serves those of us that have been here for a while to consider WHAT words we use, in WHICH sub-forum. Maybe a little premature? I am not a Moderator, and, can say, implicitly, I trust Gus, and if he felt it was the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do. It hurt Hair more than it hurts Allen.

He will be back as before, with passion in his words, and fire in his belly. We will all learn from this incident.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Valle said:
AllenC said that he disregarded the C category because he thought the price-to-performance ratio was dismal. Hair, out of the blue, decided this mild comment was directed at him, and replied that allenC´s remarks were ignorant.
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That is not true. I do not think it is ignorant to find the price/performance ratio of any knife (be it group C or any knife) dismal. The issue I had is that he said that people who buy knives that cost more than $200 are not aware of the facts. I have stated this many times. Please read my posts because you judge my intent.

Valle said:
allenC stated his opinion again. Hair continued baiting allenC, calling his opinions ignorant time after time, and implying allenC lacked the refinement and savvy to pay extra $200 for a pivot bushing.
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Again, totally untrue. I never said someone that is not willing to pay extra for a bushing lacks refinement. I even specifically said that someone could find a Native to be a better knife than a Sebenza and they would not be right or wrong. It is all subjective. Again, I have said this many times. Please read my posts.

Valle said:
If Hair felt the need to justify the way he spends his money to strangers on a public forum, why didn´t he say he likes the Sebenza, he thinks they are cool and solid and he wants to have them?
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Because I wasn't trying to justify my purchases. I was trying to defend the people that buy knives over the $200 barrier who are not in the dark on the facts, and the knifemakers that make them. I sold my Sebenza because I felt it would be worth more to someone else than it was to me. And with the money, I bought less expensive knives that I happen to like more (though they are still more expensive than Allen would spend).

In find it funny that I keep saying the same things over and over, and yet people keep telling me that I am saying something else.

Where did I say that someone is ignorant for not liking a Sebenza, or any knife at any price? Never. Where did I say that a Sebenza or any other knife is better than a less expensive knife? Never. I specifically said that which knife is better is purely subjective.

This has been a big misunderstanding, but I seem to be the bad guy.

I did not know that I was so hated on this forum. I also did not know that there were people here so petty that they would make a post just to say that I am on their ignore list, or to imply that I am immature because I am only 23. I thought the people here were better than that. I know I am. I may argue a lot, but I take issue with what people say, and do not make posts just to make them feel bad. AllenC went way off topic and way out of line to call me a retard (when I had done nothing but attack his words), and he is the good guy and I am the bad guy. You guys then proceed to make posts with no point other than to insult me and make me feel bad.

I find it scary that everyone seems to be on his side. I find it scary that everyone seems to take my words as meaning Group C knives are better than Group B knives and people that disagree are ignorant, when I actually said nothing of the sort.

Seems to me like it is more of a popularity contest than actually a matter of what I said.

I know you will all say "good riddence", play the world's smallest violin, and call me a wuss, but I'm not coming back. I do not see a point in participating on a forum that hates me for reasons I feel are totally imaginary.

This seems to be better for all of you, and better for me.
 
Hair said:
[...]Please read my posts because you judge my intent.
[...]Please read my posts.
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No. You read your posts.

The thing is, allenC expressed his opinion, and you took offense (or tried to "defend the people that buy knives over the $200 barrier" or whatever). Perhaps allenC´s choice of words were poor, but it was only his opinion, and you added all sorts of imaginary elements of your own, like:
Hair said:
An Opinel will cut stuff, so anything more is just a poser knife, right?
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Or this pearl of wisdom:
Hair said:
Get an Opinel and then you can put down damn near everyone else and not feel jealous anymore.
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Your insecurity shows in your posts, amigo. At least to me, I have a good nose for weakness. Now, think about it for a while. I know that, in your head, you were merely sticking it to the "jealous" detractors, and just reaffirming that you are oh-so-not-a-poser, or righteously "defending the people that buy knives over the $200 barrier". But it appears that people saw it differently. You said it yourself, that everyone seems to be on his side, despite the fact that he is the one that called you a retard. Why might it be, Hair? Think about it. Make an effort, just think hard about it. What could be happening in here?

It must be that you did something wrong, don´t you think?

After he said his mind, allenC tried to reason with you many times, he even conceded to some of your points. The tone of his posts before the insults is conciliatory. But you kept pushing the "ignorant" line post after post. Ignorant. Ignorant. Ignorant. Until allenC took your bait and you reported him to the moderators. This is what people saw. This is what happened.

Now deal with it.

Hair said:
I know you will all say "good riddence", play the world's smallest violin, and call me a wuss, but I'm not coming back. I do not see a point in participating on a forum that hates me for reasons I feel are totally imaginary.

This seems to be better for all of you, and better for me.
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I don´t know about the other users, but it is certainly no better for me. I don´t know you, or allenC, but I think we can use every forum member we have. A few posts before I praised the owners and admins of bladeforums, but I should have also praised the greatest asset it has: the users. I noticed that you take your time to post on the newbies threads and help out others when you can, and God knows we need as many users like you as we can get.

You don´t have to pull this drama on us, you don´t have to feel self-pity or none of this crap. My humble suggestion is that you just read your posts in this thread, honestly trying to see what you said that lead to this mess. Just try not to do it again. Perhaps even apologize to allenC through e-mail or something. That would be a gesture of greatness, don´t you think?

We should all leave this crap behind asap, and go back talking inanities about our knives. You were wrong again: you (or allenC) leaving is not good for anybody, and I think you should reconsider.
 
Great post Valle.

I'm glad to see that AllenC's banning is only temporary. A permanent ban would have been very harsh. He is obviously not a troll and does not do this type of thing often.
 
I`d prefer a group B Knife because your getting the group C quality but for alot less $ . I think you`d have to be doing something pretty destructive to break any of these knives ! If you did manage to break them it`d probably be doing something the said knife was`nt intended to do . Or purposely to prove a point ! Also i`ll add if you need a folder that will skin a deer carve a playtoy out of a car door and chop through a telegraph pole without sharpening the edge with a piece of Kryptonite. Then YOU my friend need to add the Term SUPER in front of your name and buy a Cape maybe also start wearing your jocks on the outside ! Because your not normal .

Anti-Flame Shield HAS Been activated suckers !!! lol lol lol
 
Hair said:
I find it scary that everyone seems to be on his side.
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Maybe it's because you're a relative newbie to knife collecting and this forum, while allenC is a longstanding member? Maybe it's because you got a couple of Visa cards and suddenly became The Authority to knife collecting? Maybe it's because you come off as an argumentative, self-infatuated poser? The list is long, my friend.

I'm a year older than you, and you're a shining example of why why I try not to associate with males in the same age bracket (early twenties). Women on the other hand... :p You'll learn in time not to be so full of yourself. ;)


Hair said:
...but I'm not coming back.
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Good riddance. Where's Cougar to enforce this? :p
 
I don't really think AllenC should've been banned for this thread, but it's not that big of a deal for a few days. IMO, things got heated a bit, but it wasn't that bad. If anything, maybe the mods should've locked this one.As far as it being a popularity contest? Sure it is. But really, that's OK too, to a point. If you're a newer member(like me), you should be expecting to take some licks for some things you say. It's no different in the real world. In your first days at a new school or job, this happens. Why the surprise here? I'm a big boy and can pretty much takes what comes to me if I decided to step into the ring(any thread here,really) and come out in direct opposition of a more senior member. That said, I don't automatically assume seniority means more valid, either.
 
Hair -

If you leave the forum, I would think that is a lose of the forum too. I am new to BF, and I am a super newbie to knives. I still can remember your reply to my "Knife with the best performance/cost ratio" question not so long ago. Your reply was so detailed and informative. I really appreciate it.

Allen's words, as I quoted in my last post, were more or less offensive. I might also be offended if I were you. However, I just personally feel that you should have had a better way to express your disagreement with Allen and handle the argument later on.

I am new at BF, I do not know Allen. I do not see any need to take Allen's side or your side. I do not hate you at all, neither do most other people here. I just hope that you can stay, and enjoy your life as before.
 
I read this entire stinking thread. From what appears here at least, allenC should not have been the only one banned. It's hard to get the whole story, however, because so many posts have been edited.

Nonetheless, allenC appeared to be continually baited, plain and simple--by someone who is old enough to know better.

Just watch. Hair will be back. People like him don't know when to quit. Neither did allenC, unfortunately, and it got him banned. When Hair reappears, it won't be long before he follows suit.
 
IMHO, there's room for all kinds, and I straddle the range of categories. I have SAKs and Buck 110s that give me great pleasure and performance for certain tasks (camping and hunting). As for bang for the buck, I don't think there's a better knife than the standard 110. I own and use several. I tend to carry knives in the B category because of the steel performance combined with design considerations (Spyderhole, Axis Lock, etc.). I have owned exactly one Sebenza and quickly sold it because of a poor fit to my hand. However, I'll likely own another because I appreciate the minimalist elements of the design combined with tight tolerances and excellent materials. In fixed blades, I also own Busse knives which continue to perform well even under harsh conditions and offer one of the best warranties in the business.

One for daily carry? Group B, as I've already indicated. My latest infatuation is a Spyderco Caly III. The VG-10 takes a scalpel-like edge, the G-10 scales are my favorite scale material, and the size and shape agree with me.
 
Well I don't have a dog in this fight but I will throw in my 2 cents. I think allen was baited plain and simple. Now to our regularly scheduled topic.

I would go with knives in the group "B" category. First off, I can't afford one from group "C" and if I could, I would be polishing it and looking at it everyday but probably not using it. Yeah I know, why buy a knife you wouldn't use?

On a side note: I was on a board once where there was no edit function. That will get you right with God before you hit send. :D
 
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