What kind of folder do you really want?

You later said that you recognized the difference and improvements of certain Group C knives over Group B, but that these improvements are not worth the money to you.
Hair, First you should actually read what I typed, and then you should try to comprehend.
I never said anything about an IMPROVEMENT.
Differences? yes.
Improvement? No.
The biggest difference is the price tag, but I would certainly not call that an improvement.

I have tried to take the high road be the better man here...
And I know that I should not sink to your level of discourse...
But sometimes I just can't resist and I give in to temptation...

You're an idiot, plain and simple...and I really mean SIMPLE!
I can see now that you lack the metal capacity to understand what I have said in this thread.
You're the one that made this personal.
You're the one that was intolerant of my opinions.
But now I understand why....
because you're an idiot.
You can't help that you're stupid.

Go ahead and flame away, my misbegotten retard!

Cheers,
Allen.
 
Hair, you really do seem incapable of understanding, For all the measurable increases in product quality control and munufacturing precision, AllenC sees no improvement in knife performance. If there is no improvement in performance, no increase or change in the product's set of functions, no differentiation in raw materials, then AllenC sees no reason to pay more. You keep saying it, but don't even seem to understand your own posts. AllenC recognizes higher quality in the build construction, but no improvement from that. The higher price is not justified to him. He feels people are not getting more for thneir money in performance, and only gaining in status, pride of ownership, etc.

You give your justifications for paying the price of a Sebenza, then apply it to others. You see some improvement from the F&F, the bushing, the shape of the handle (which should not increase cost anyway, due to the simplicity of design) AllenC says these are not justifications for pricing and applies his feelings about it to others. "I don't see functional improvements worth the price of a Sebenza, others are buying for some other reason. They are buying on name."-AllenC "I see improvements which justify the price of a Sebenza, others are buying for the same reason I did. People who don't recognize that are ignorant." -Hair You aren't doing anything different from AllenC, you just wish you were. You are not the judge of what is an advantage or improvement for AllenC, or anyone else who ever bouhght or handled a Sebbie.
 
STR has it right. And I'm sorry I read this far.


How does it go this far?

I have seen 50k corvettes that are as fast as 150k porches. Some people think a corvette is the end all be all, and can not imagine paying extra $$$ for a porshe. People who own a porshe can give several reasons why it is better than a corvette. Both will get you from point A to B (pretty quickly too).

The aforementioned Buck 110 has seen more work than any BM, spyderco, or CR. It has stood the test of time. So why buy a $100 dollar spyderco when you can get a $30 Buck?

This could go on and on. Don't let your tempers get the best of you. You are both bigger than that.
 
Actually, I do understand quite well. To each his own. My only point.

Don't misquote me out of context. I never said people who do not see functional improvements in the Sebenza are ignorant. Ever. Why the hell gives you the idea that is my point? You have proven my assumption right; you are simply posting without reading. If someone thinks everything about a Maxam is an improvement or advantage over a Sebenza, so be it. I would never, EVER call them ignorant for it. But they would be ignorant to say the differences of the Maxam and the Sebenza are not improvements to other people, and that those other people aren't aware of the facts and are just paying for a name.

Whether knife A or knife B is better is subjective. Knife A and B can be a Sebenza, a Maxam, a 110, a 710, or a Loveless. It doesn't matter. It is all subjective.

But when someone finds knife A better, it would be ignorant of them to say that the people that like knife B more are not aware of the facts. If knife B happens to cost more, it doesn't change the fact that to some people, the differences are improvements, and the improvements are worth it. To them.

I never said an "improvement" was not in the eye of the beholder, just that people are willing to pay for what are improvements to them. If something is not an improvement to you, you still do not have the right to say the people that find it to be an improvement don't know the facts, or that the knifemaker is charging extra for no reason. There *IS* a reason.

I am not saying anyone that disagrees with me, likes what I don't like, dislikes what I like, doesn't see improvements where I do, or sees disadvantages where I see advantages is *ANYTHING*, good or bad. My issue is that Allen does not understand that where he sees no advantages, other people do see them. They are not buying more expensive knives because they are in the dark on the facts, like he states. He is judgeing the opinions of others and calling their choices ignorant (lack of knowledge of the facts is ignorance). I am taking issue with him for doing that, not for not wanting to pay extra for any particular knife. He is calling other peoples choices ignorant. I am not. I am calling him ignorant for not accepting the opinions of others.

I have said this all along. Once more, I must ask: what don't you get? Once more, I must ask: please read my posts before you reply.

You've got it backwards. Keep trying, you'll get it right.

Thanks.
 
Hardheart,
Don't waste your time...you can't win an argument with someone who is simply incapable of comprehending what you're saying.

He's an idiot.
Don't waste your time.
 
I actually comprehend perfectly well. But thanks for not stooping to my level.
 
From Hair:
They are not buying more expensive knives because they are in the dark on the facts, like he states.
Don't try to put words in to my mouth.
Back your words up with proof!
Post a quote from me where I said anyone was "in the dark on the facts".


He is judgeing the opinions of others and calling their choices ignorant (lack of knowledge of the facts is ignorance).
Again, Back it up with proof!
Post a quote from me where I called anyone's choice "ignorant".

It seems that you're not only an idiot, but a liar as well.
 
I actually comprehend perfectly well. But thanks for not stooping to my level.

Did you think that I would just stand by silently forever while you repeatedly called me ignorant?

I admit, I am only human.
And I generally give what I get from others!
 
"Some folks are just happy paying more for no performance gain. Maybe it's for status or maybe they equate "more expensive" with "better" regardless of the facts."

I already quoted you saying this, and it was in this very thread, so I didn't feel the need to quote it every time I refered to it.

Be careful about calling someone a liar for no reason.

Did you think that I would just stand by silently forever while you repeatedly called me ignorant?

I admit, I am only human.
And I generally give what I get from others!
I called you ignorant because you comments were ignorant. Again: everyone is ignorant. It is a human trait. No one is all knowing. I am ignorant as well. About many things. Everyone is. I said this already.

I did not call you stupid, an idiot, a retard etc...

I would say you gave a lot more than you got.

Again, thanks for not stooping to my level.
 
foxes_monkey_knife_fight.gif
 
No one argues on the internet to try and look cool. I am aware that it is a chunky monkey knife fight. But I am not trying to look like James Bond.

I would like to see the rest of that comic, though.
 
"Some folks are just happy paying more for no performance gain. Maybe it's for status or maybe they equate "more expensive" with "better" regardless of the facts."

Hair, do you disagree with this statement?
Do you deny that "SOME FOLKS" pay more for no performance gain?
Do you deny that "SOME FOLKS" buy things for status only?
Do you deny that "SOME FOLKS" equate "more expensive" with "better", regardless of the facts?
Do you truely deny those remarks?

My remarks above were never directed specifically toward YOU or anyone else on this forum.
And nowhere in that quote did I ever call anyone ignorant.
You're the only one here who has called others ignorant.

Are you comprehending what I'm typing?
 
Lets take one example.

The knife I mentioned earlier. The Buck 501.

1980 version. It looks for all practical purposes like its the same knife as the one being made today. Subtle changes have been made by Buck though aside from blade steel.
1980 had 440c blades. They didn't come all that sharp but some did if you got lucky.

Present day. They come ready to go more consistantly, have better edge angles because Buck has done research on that and improved it. The new factory 501 is much sharper than any of the older ones.

What else changed?

Lets look at the lock up. Significant differences there in advancement. The new knife has a stiffer spring. There is a deeper cut out in the blade which equates to better lock contact (more surface area) which means there is more metal contacting metal when you snap open the blade and it locks in place.

What about the price? You can still buy these knives rather inexpensively. Based on current inflation and what they used to go for when new compared to what they go for today it could be argued that the price has actually decreased when you take into account the value of the dollar today vs what it was in 1980.

Thats just one example. So, your arguments are void. Case closed. Move on. I tried to put this thread back on a normal track once. Can we stay on the rails now and stop the bantering or is this petty arguing more important to you guys? Take that stuff privately if you will please.

Thanks

STR
 
You said that you saw no reason to pay more than $200 for a knife and then went on to say that "some folks" are in the dark, as it was contrary to what you buy.

Does "some folks" mean the people that buy more expensive knives? As is they are "some" of the knife-buying population (the stupid ones that pay for than you pay)? Or does it mean some of the people buying expensive knives are not doing it for good reasons, and only for elitism, but others are not in the dark?

I cannot know. Only you can. And that is why I questioned it.

It certainly implies something...

You could have said "I didn't mean everyone that buys more expensive knives are in the dark, only a small portion of them that do it for elitism. Many people that buy more expensive knives do so for various advantages that those knives have over less expensive knives. But I do not personally feel those advantages are worth the price increase, and what are "advantages" to some are not advantages to me. Sometimes the less expensive knives have the advanatages for me."

But you didn't. You continued to defend the very notion I was taking issue with you for instead of clarifying, so I continued as well. Then you finally "backtracked". That was a while ago, and I knew you actually agreed with me.

That is why I, many posts ago, said that you should be more careful with your word choices, as I had seen that you had basically recanted your original statement. At that point I only had an issue with the poor way you explained youself. I made this clear.

Again, this was several posts ago. Tell me when you have caught up, then you can proceed calling me a retard and asking if I can comprehend you. I'll wait.
 
Generally:

-2.5-4 inches
-440C, 154cm, 154cpm, S30V, D2, A2, M2, H1, maybe AUS8 (multitools are ok with other steel.
-Open/Close one handed
-Locks: Not fond of Liner Locks, but will get one if the knife is interesting enough. I like pretty much every other lock, I prefer the axis.
-Not picky on the handle material. the Zytel on the Griptilians don't seem too cheap for me to enjoy.
-Drop, Clip, Wharnecliffe, Sheepsfoot, not too fond of tantos
-Pocket Clip, lanyard hole a plus
-Ceramic Coating, DLC okay
-I do like tumbstuds over opening holes, and don't really like thumbnicks (correct name?)

These are the basic criteria.

I haven't really thought out a list of things that I only look for in a knife, but I'd love to see a Kershaw ET-type handle on a more practical shaped blade with some better steel.
 
STR,

You're right.

I apologize for allowing myself to be pulled down into the gutter...
and in any event, I should heed my own advice and not try and argue with someone who simply cannot grasp what I'm saying.

So, to answer the original question once more....

I prefer knives in Group B.


Allen.
 
Very classy way to step out of the arguement. Taking cheap shots. Nice. It's almost like you didn't step out at all but are just trying to seem like you did. Sort of like this:

Who pulled you down into the gutter? I only pulled your feet in. I never called anyone a retard. You went way lower than me.

Anyways, back on topic, I like knives from all three groups, but my favorite folders happened to cost more than $200 bucks (sadly for me), so I guess I am partial to group C.

Whew, glad that is over.
 
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